is this bowline variant a thing?

K

Keiran.A

New member
taken from the english version of the the italian National Alpine and Speleological Rescue Corps's "Cave Rescue Techniques 2017" download and referred to it as a "Bowline on the bight".

it's not the same same as what we brits call a BOB.

-Do we have a name for it?
-does anyone use it?
-could someone please share the "where's and why" & "do's and don'ts" for this variant please (y)
.k xx

caving_rescue_techniques_2017.jpg
 

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I

Ian Ball

Well-known member
Well if I'm not mistaken a knot tied on the bight is just a knot that can be tied without using the ends of the rope and it looks like a bowline so naming wise it doesn't seem wrong, but I can't think or find an alternative, Portugese, French, Spanish, Water, Double that looks the same as the one described.

A question I'm sure Pete Knight and Bob Mehew will be interested in.

Is there no more info in the download?  (and any chance you could link the download location please?)
 
K

Keiran.A

New member
Ian Ball said:
Is there no more info in the download?  (and any chance you could link the download location please?)
Click to expand...

Wouldn't download on my phone but worked fine on my macbook.k 😘

https://formazione.cnsas.it/download/handbook/caving-rescue-2017
 
JoshW

JoshW

Well-known member
Never seen it with both ends loops clipped into a carabiner, but have seen and used it effectively as a mid rope bowline, with one of the loops used to create a stopper knot. It leaves effectively a doubled up bowline.

Their advice to not to forget to use a stopper knot confuses me, as their ?loose end? is clipped into the carabiner, so would not be able to pull all the way through. And what bit of the rope do they want a stopper knot done with?!
 
K

Keiran.A

New member
JoshW said:
Never seen it with both ends loops clipped into a carabiner, but have seen and used it effectively as a mid rope bowline...
Click to expand...

samies. i'm not sure what i'd call that but as your loading it differently here i'd would probs have another name.k x
 
J

JoW

Member
Well, I had a go with a bit of rope for comparion and managed 5 bowlines...
Bowline
Triple Bowline
Bowline on the bight
Double bowline
And the one pictured above

I've used the first three, but can't think of a use for the others. The new one seems a bit messy, difficult to tie correctly and an alpine butterfly, or a figure of eight, depending on the situation, would seem to do the job better. But I'm open to it if someone can think of a genuine use that it shows some advantage for...
 

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K

Keiran.A

New member
is that one in the the middle a BOB JoW?

look's like it could pile hitch (polish knot) tied arround it's own tails... does it work as a noose?!k x
 
M

mikem

Well-known member
JoshW said:
Their advice to not to forget to use a stopper knot confuses me, as their ?loose end? is clipped into the carabiner, so would not be able to pull all the way through. And what bit of the rope do they want a stopper knot done with?!
Click to expand...
I think it's a transcription problem - the AND should be, clip both in OR "add a stopper knot". Alternatively, a stopper should be used if the top rope isn't coming from another anchor.

It's advantage is that it can be tied direct to a 2nd anchor, without a karabiner (provided stopper is used), which is suggested on the page, but not what is shown. (Whereas our BotB is suitable for a rebelay, rather than a chain of anchors.)
 
F

Fjell

Well-known member
How do you tie that to a ring without first threading the fixed ring or natural? And would a double bowline not always be quicker and easier anyway, both to install and remove?
 
M

mikem

Well-known member
The bight just goes through before tying the knot.

Standard BotB doesn't spread the load back to previous anchor, as both ends lead downwards (as seen in rebelays).
 
JoshW

JoshW

Well-known member
mikem said:
It's advantage is that it can be tied direct to a 2nd anchor, without a karabiner (provided stopper is used), which is suggested on the page, but not what is shown.
Click to expand...

I think this is the key thing. I don?t think tying this has any advantage over a ?standard? bowline on the bight, but if tying a stopper as opposed to clipping the stopper in, it enables you to tie direct.
 
M

mikem

Well-known member
Not that most of our anchors are possible to easily thread a bight through, so mostly restricted to use on naturals, where the increased amount of rope needed would be better saved by using a sling....
 
JoshW

JoshW

Well-known member
mikem said:
Not that most of our anchors are possible to easily thread a bight through, so mostly restricted to use on naturals, where the increased amount of rope needed would be better saved by using a sling....
Click to expand...

Just use thinner rope!
 
JoshW

JoshW

Well-known member
JoshW said:
mikem said:
Not that most of our anchors are possible to easily thread a bight through, so mostly restricted to use on naturals, where the increased amount of rope needed would be better saved by using a sling....
Click to expand...

Just use thinner rope!
Click to expand...

For the record this was mostly tongue in cheek
 
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