I am a happy caver, climber and like my mountains. I fancy having a go at diving, with a view to going on to cave diving. I will obviously start out by learning basic diving techniques, however, I was wondering what further training (on top of that offered by BSAC affiliated groups), would be advisable.

I would think that specific cave diving training offered by the Cave Diving Group would be the best way forward.

http://www.cavedivinggroup.org.uk/Training.html

Same as Les, I would recommend contacting the CDG http://www.cavedivinggroup.org.uk/

Depending on what part of the country you are from you may wish to attend one of the section meetings to find out more:

Somerset
Derbyshire
Wales
Northern

Hope this of some help.

Stu.

Thanks. How would you advise i learn to dive? I'm not rich, and have a load of needed gear atm. (climber, caver and guiatarist ).
Any ideas?

dunny said:

Thanks. How would you advise i learn to dive? I'm not rich, and have a load of needed gear atm. (climber, caver and guiatarist ).
Any ideas?

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A waterproof guitar would probably be handy.

dunny said:

Thanks. How would you advise i learn to dive? I'm not rich, and have a load of needed gear atm. (climber, caver and guiatarist ).
Any ideas?

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I can hear the reel clicking as I type..... but, you know there are BSAC routes into learning to dive. Stu has advised you that cave diving is a specialist activity best advised on by the CDG.

Anything else you need to know - or are you hoping to discover how to obtain all this much needed gear outside the normal route?

I'm not rich either but I own a guitar, climbing gear and caving gear. I went to work to earn money, saved up, and bought it from a shop.

dunny said:

Thanks. How would you advise i learn to dive?

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Before you do anything sign yourself up for a PADI try dive, you may not even like it  If this goes ok then you would be advised to go for your PADI Open Water or if you wish to take the BSAC route then take their Ocean Diver course.

Both these courses will teach you the basics.

Stu.

It would be interesting to know whether there is a cheap way into cave diving; my understanding is that you need an entry route from the diving world but that becoming a good caver is an essential prerequisite; then you need a good amount of diving experience and probably attendance on a cave diving course plus all the kit.

Ball park guess is that you'll need several grand.

It depends what level you want to go in at. For example if you're a caver and you just fancy short sumps you're talking a few hundred for the gear (as opposed to a few grand). This assumes you don't buy inappropriate stuff accidentally then have to upgrade it - this is another good reason to be in contact with CDG members (for advice on gear). Later, if you fancy taking it a bit further, you can then build on your equipment pile as time progresses.

Strictly speaking it is NOT essential to be an experienced caver first - some of Europe's best practitioners are not cavers. BUT in the UK it's probably a good idea because you'll otherwise be limited to just a few sites and you'll miss out on some of the finest cave diving experiences this country has to offer. And most of the time having caving skills will probably make your diving safer.

Certainly learn to dive first; basic diving skills are totally different from normal caving. Then start to combine the two, making use of the mentoring possibilities that the CDG can offer.

And be bloody careful . . . .

Learning to dive properly is very important. I started an open water course, but got fed up, bought a load of gear and started going cave diving without ever completing open water training. This led to 2 consequences:

a) I nearly died the first time a did a cave dive which was seriously deep (no exaggeration, this was one of the closest shaves I've ever had in my life).
b) It took me a lot of effort and time later to fine tune basic diving skills like buoyancy control because I had to "unlearn" poor technique.

When cave diving in the UK you can at least "get by" with poor diving technique on most occasions. Poor fin technique or buoyancy control isn't critical in a passage half a metre high and where the visibility is crap from the start. Decompression and careful control of ascent rate is not usualy a big deal either, especially in "beginner sites". But...if you then try to go diving in typical continental conditions or some of the more advanced sites in the UK it's a whole different ball game. Without good diving skills you are at best going to make a complete fool of yourself and at worst become a statistic.

Going diving in open water is definitely the best way to learn good diving skills. It's not such a risky environment but, paradoxically, it demands much better diving skills. If you are "in the blue" with no floor or ceiling and few visual terms of reference you have to rely on your diving skills.

The main problem with joing a diving club and learning to dive is that they are often somewhat suspicious of people wanting to go cave diving and the equipment configuration normally used for open water diving is not the same as for typical UK sump conditions. This former problem is something you just have to handle yourself. The latter problem can be dealt with in various ways: (a) by hiring equipment during open water training (b) carefully buying equipment which can be adapted to cave diving without too much additional expense or (c) finding a club which is a bit more open minded about equipment configurations.

Mark

Agree with MSD. I'd also add that if your main motive for joining a dive club is eventually to go cave diving then the best policy is just to keep your gob shut about it.

Incidentally I remember several years ago I (re)joined the BSAC, partly to go through basic training from scratch because I recognised a few weaknesses in my own diving skills. It just so happened that I went cave diving in Italy at the time, with someone who just happened to be a BCAC instructor. He mischievously suggested that we log a dive we did to -77 m in the Gorgazzo Spring as my first open water BSAC dive. I'll never forget the BSAC dive officer's face when I submitted my logbook for scrutiny shortly afterwards. At first he insisted I must have forgotten the decimal point. He then went completely mad and proceeded to give me a serious telling off. Some of the others (who were in the know) were waiting for this - talk about rolling around the floor! Remember the old Smash advert with the Martians . . . ?

How come they don't like cave divers? (or are suspicious??). Thanks for all the advice, everyone has been more than helpful. The plan is to go on a try dive and see if its any good, then from there get some open water diving experience/qualifications. Then if I still have the urge, get in contact with the CDG, and see if anyone i know has any experience (quite possible).
Equipment wise, i will probably hire for open water.
Unfortunately i do not have a job. This does sometimes limit me budget wise, but i get by. I'm still doing the whole school thing, and if I'm not playing guitar I'm climbing or caving. I wont be getting a job until its necessary!

dunny said:

How come they don't like cave divers? (or are suspicious??).

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the general consensus (born from ignorance) is that open water divers tend to think that cave divers, or those that aspire to cave dive, are complete nutters with a death wish. the first thing you tend to hear is "you must be firking mad!". in reality, i'd say that diving with rock overhead is actually safer as the dive planning, preparation and execution is way more switched on for what is a more unforgiving environment than a 'simple' open water bimble, hence why decent training is pretty much a necessity.

Dunny - where abouts are you based?

Im in Halifax west yorkshire. Why? 

Oh I just vaguely wondered that if I help you learn to dive you might teach me how to play a guitar!

now that sounds like a plan! Where abouts are you then?

Believe me - I'd have the easier side of the bargain!

I'll send you a PM anyway.

So, will the first concert be in the China Shop in Boreham?  8)

Nay - but the first dive might be!