royfellows
Well-known member
Society is forever changing as new discoveries are made and new technology emerges. And so the law also changes to reflect the above and changes in our societies attitudes and values.
I think its right to say that the nature of caving has changed over the years as mine exploration comes more and more into the equation, I think that there are more people visiting abandoned mines now that ever before.
BCA Constitution says "4.6. That the owners and tenants of property containing caves have the right to grant or withhold access." This has been touched upon before.
Further: 2.2. In this Constitution, the expression ?cave? shall take the meaning as covering cave, pothole, mine or any other underground cavity and related terms shall be similarly construed.
Obviously, in joining an association one agrees to abide by its constitution.
Now the legal position is that a mine belongs to the mineral owner who is not necessarily the land owner. Usually the landowner and the mineral owner will be the same entity, but this is not always the case. The existing wording of the constitution as it is may be invalid from a legal point of view, in that it may attempt to confer rights on people who may not actually have them. This matter arose at the CCC AGM last year.
Now I am not trying to weaken the rights of landowners, the law does this all on its own without any help from me. Or am I trying to start arguments on here, but just offer a platform for discussion, and hear the opinions of others. To this end I am offering a hypothetical situation, but one which could become very real. It is something which needs to be looked at.
SITUATION
You are organising a special trip into Upper Dinas Silica Mines and for insurance or other reasons you need to gain written legal permission to enter the mine with your party. To this end you approach the landowner NRW, who advise you that they are unable to give permission because it?s not their mine, it belongs to Natural Amenities Ltd, the mineral owner, and suggest that you approach me as managing director.
QUESTION
Do you cancel the trip as the landowner is unable to give permission (in line with the BCA constitution which by joining you agreed to abide by) or go ahead and direct your application to me?
I think its right to say that the nature of caving has changed over the years as mine exploration comes more and more into the equation, I think that there are more people visiting abandoned mines now that ever before.
BCA Constitution says "4.6. That the owners and tenants of property containing caves have the right to grant or withhold access." This has been touched upon before.
Further: 2.2. In this Constitution, the expression ?cave? shall take the meaning as covering cave, pothole, mine or any other underground cavity and related terms shall be similarly construed.
Obviously, in joining an association one agrees to abide by its constitution.
Now the legal position is that a mine belongs to the mineral owner who is not necessarily the land owner. Usually the landowner and the mineral owner will be the same entity, but this is not always the case. The existing wording of the constitution as it is may be invalid from a legal point of view, in that it may attempt to confer rights on people who may not actually have them. This matter arose at the CCC AGM last year.
Now I am not trying to weaken the rights of landowners, the law does this all on its own without any help from me. Or am I trying to start arguments on here, but just offer a platform for discussion, and hear the opinions of others. To this end I am offering a hypothetical situation, but one which could become very real. It is something which needs to be looked at.
SITUATION
You are organising a special trip into Upper Dinas Silica Mines and for insurance or other reasons you need to gain written legal permission to enter the mine with your party. To this end you approach the landowner NRW, who advise you that they are unable to give permission because it?s not their mine, it belongs to Natural Amenities Ltd, the mineral owner, and suggest that you approach me as managing director.
QUESTION
Do you cancel the trip as the landowner is unable to give permission (in line with the BCA constitution which by joining you agreed to abide by) or go ahead and direct your application to me?