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WHERE THE CAVES ARE - The Caving Regions => Peak District => Topic started by: Mark Wright on May 04, 2015, 01:54:16 am

Title: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 04, 2015, 01:54:16 am
Eldon Hole – Lost River Project

‘Fissure on right has been dug out for 60’ (18m) but has run in since.
Lloyd (1780) reports a lower shaft with a stream in the bottom, but
this has not been seen since.’ CotPD 2010 p88/89.

I’m sure many cavers will have read the above description or even
the similar Eldon Hole descriptions in the many previous editions of CotPD.

Back in the 80’s the TSG seriously considered taking on the challenge
of finding and exploring this lost river. Having only recently
purchased an old wheel mounted crane from Litton Mill they were
keen to try and get some value out of it. Looking back, the plans
were a little farfetched and involved employing loads of people through
the Youth Opportunities Scheme to fill skips full of what is effectively
dry stone wall material at the bottom of the entrance shaft. It was
suggested we should lower down a mini digger to help with the excavations.
The crane would winch out the skips and we would sell the stone for both
dry stone walling and as souvenirs for the many tourists who would
visit the site following a massive publicity and sponsorship campaign.
The project would have required a temporary metal track to be laid
all the way up to the cave to allow wagons to take away the many
tonnes of rock that would be pulled out. As well as numerous dry stone
walls, it’s reported that at least two cottages were thrown down the
shaft over the last 300 years. Great ideas with a few pints inside you
but once sober the idea was soon forgotten and the crane eventually
sold for scrap.

There have been many attempts to find this lost river, as the numerous
abandoned dig sites in the floor of the Main Chamber will testify. I’ve
been down Eldon Hole a few times but have mainly concentrated my
efforts on exploring the high level parts of the Main Chamber by bolting.

In the early 90’s, former Eldon Pothole Club (EPC) member, Martin Veale
and me did a large bolt route around the left wall of the chamber but
found nothing of any significance. A new passage was entered from
part way up the rope into Millers Chamber but it was only an oxbow
dropping back into the Main Chamber. Starting a digging project in the
floor of the Main Chamber was definitely not on my list of potential projects.

25 years later,

In 2014 a number of EPC members took on the challenge of finding
the lost river. Knowing where to start was their first problem and their
first two ideas have since been abandoned. The scale of the project
and lack of progress resulted in the inevitable dwindling digger numbers.
The final option was the previously dug out fissure, already 18m deep.
The way this site was originally dug has a familiarity with the original
Gin Shaft in Rowter Hole with bits of scaffold tube stuffed into nooks
and crannies at peculiar angles down a very narrow and awkward shaft,
typical of the many dig sites before clubs had access to the modern tools
of today. In its current state 8 diggers would be needed to make any
progress at the bottom and as I’m sure many regular diggers will agree,
its hard enough getting 3 cavers to commit to a digging trip.

I had mentioned to Paul (Paz) Vale and Dan Hibberts of the EPC that
the Buttered Badgers Potholing Club (BBPC) were keen for another project,
following their success in Rowter Hole, and might be interested in a joint
venture in order for the large and daunting project to stand any chance of
success. The project was an agenda item at the recent EPC AGM and a
date was set for a trip to weigh up how to proceed.

Saturday 2nd May.

Following Graham Proudlove’s post on ukCaving regarding appropriate
energy foods for caving we met in the café at Wardlow Mires and had
a Full English breakfast before driving to Peak Forest.

No access restrictions, other than its SSSI status, and more importantly,
no access/trespass fee. Trespass fees for the Rowter Hole project were
well over £1,000.00 and that was after negotiating a 50% discount for
half of the 4 years we were digging it!!

The EPC were there in force, Paz Vale, Dan Hibberts, Bob Toogood,
Nigel Strong, Sam and Jon Pemberton with me representing the
Buttered Badgers digging team.

With there being 7 of us we double rigged the entrance shaft and
proceeded to survey the digging options. No matter which way we
looked at the dig site the options were clear, there will be an awful lot
of digging to do before we even start pushing beyond the current
limit of exploration.

The Pemberton brothers wasted no time in stripping the old scaffold
from the previous digging attempts giving us a healthy stash of tubes
and fittings to make a start on the project once the necessary SSSI
permissions and timbers have been acquired. The key will be to make
the place big enough to get people in and out easily but more
importantly to be able to get the many tonnes of rock out easily and,
ideally, with a 3 person digging team.

We attempted a small trial dig to see how deep the mud was and
determine how well packed the rocks were. As it turned out the mud
layer was only on the surface rocks and they were pretty loosely packed
so, apart from the inevitable engineering obstacles and the many
tonnes of rocks that need moving, it should be a ‘relatively’ easy dig
with the possibility of some major discoveries.

We tidied up the dig site, had one last look at what we were letting
ourselves in for and started to head out to the Wanted Inn to finalise
our plans for the next digging trip over a pint of Farmers Blonde.

Watch this space.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Rob on May 04, 2015, 08:46:18 am
Nice report, and great news of a collaborative Buttered Eldon digging team!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: braveduck on May 04, 2015, 11:21:12 am
Did you use any smoke to detect any obvious drafts ? 
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on May 04, 2015, 11:48:41 am
Awesome news. I'm sure I'll be able to lend a hand at some point when I've put other rock-hauling projects to bed.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 04, 2015, 06:58:35 pm
I've been down there again today with Mark Richardson and TomTom from the Badgers for a second opinion on Saturday's observations. Everybody agreed it was going to be a big job with a good few trips just making it all a lot bigger. No draughts were noticed in the dig today or Saturday but others have reported draughts.

We are going down there on Thursday evening with a pile of timber and we will make a start on stabilising the entrance to the dig.

Mark R had to be at a BBQ for 5pm so TomTom and me went down P8 to clean all the mud off our suits. I even managed to go paragliding on Rushup Edge on the way back and bumped (not literally) into John Cross in the landing field. I'd not seen him for years.

Mark 
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: AR on May 05, 2015, 09:00:34 am
Regarding timber, what size/quantity are you after? There's a lot of 6ft lengths of 2" square sat around at the farm where we keep our ponies right now, I can ask the farmer about it if it would be of use?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on May 05, 2015, 12:45:26 pm
Hi,

We will only be using 6"x1" tanalised (or similar treated) planks for the dig with the occasional 4" plank slotted in here and there. Sadly we will have to buy the materials. Badlad taught me very quickly that it's not worth trying to shoe- horn in free materials of irregular sizes that won't last. Best to bite the bullet and buy the kit to do the job properly.

Cheers for the offer though.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: seamoose on May 06, 2015, 05:30:27 pm
... No draughts were noticed in the dig today or Saturday but others have reported draughts.

Myself, Stick, Gaz Bode, Mike Salt and some other Eldon members last dug here in the late 1990's (we dug about 15' and put in the lower two sections of 7' vertical scaffold poles).
It did draught occasionally, but not greatly.

Good luck with the project - I should be able to lend a hand some weeks.

Jase
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: braveduck on May 06, 2015, 05:46:40 pm
Might be worth logging the draught verses weather conditions.
May only draught in flood/wet conditions, assuming the elusive stream does exist !
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Goydenman on May 06, 2015, 10:14:00 pm
Good luck with the project guys
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: bograt on May 06, 2015, 11:14:46 pm
Remember to keep your receipts, DCA cave discovery fund is there when you break through!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Roger W on May 07, 2015, 03:13:10 am
Make sure you're well tied on to something solid when you do break through.

If there's any truth in the singed goose legend, it's a long way down!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 08, 2015, 09:58:21 am
With Mark Richardson, TomTom and Dan Hibberts we manhandled 16 x 6' boards into the Main Chamber last night and set about clearing up some of the rubbish that has been dumped in the chamber by passers by hurling rocks down the shaft and from the many abandoned dig sites. This will gradually be cleared from the cave and disposed of appropriately.

Mark took a few photographs of the area around the entrance to the dig which will allow us to show what it looked like before we start the mammoth task of removing many tonnes of rocks. Although we shifted a fair amount of rock last night, there is still plenty of work to do at the entrance to the dig on Saturday and we should have the first supporting scaffold in next week.   

If anyone is going into Eldon Hole could you please keep to the left when you enter the Main Chamber to avoid causing a slip of the slope into the entrance to the dig. We will make a start on digging out the awkward and grotty crawl that gets you into the Main Chamber at the weekend and cut some steps into the slope which should help protect the entrance to the dig site.

Watch this space.

Mark 
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Fulk on May 08, 2015, 10:28:02 am
Sounds like you're doing a great job – good luck  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on May 08, 2015, 10:38:58 am
and so it begins!

(http://i60.tinypic.com/rmo589.png)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on May 08, 2015, 12:44:06 pm
http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=336:eldon-begins&catid=1:trip-reports&Itemid=37 (http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=336:eldon-begins&catid=1:trip-reports&Itemid=37)
Have a read
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Madness on May 08, 2015, 12:58:53 pm
Good luck fellas, I hope all the hard work pays dividends.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: braveduck on May 08, 2015, 03:04:42 pm
If you need any digging buckets etc. please contact me after Spring bank holiday.
Buttered Badgers have used my gear down Rowter.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mrs Trellis on May 08, 2015, 05:31:34 pm
When you've shifted all that sh*t you can try Windy Knoll next. Then Bull Pit. Then Wormhill Springs.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: EDB4YLI55 on May 08, 2015, 07:07:06 pm
I see you're working on Saturday but will any of you be around on Sunday? I've got the day to myself, and could offer another set of hands?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Tangent_tracker on May 08, 2015, 08:01:11 pm
Good luck, will be watching this with much interest :-)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 08, 2015, 09:48:46 pm
EDB4YLI55,

I don't think anyone has any plans on going down on Sunday but if you find somebody to go down with there is plenty of work to do clearing out all the tree trunks and bits of old angle iron from the miserable crawl through into the Main Chamber and take it out for disposal. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Mark   
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: richardg on May 09, 2015, 05:58:22 pm
Very very interesting adventure you've embarked on here.....



Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 09, 2015, 10:07:00 pm
What started off as a three man team soon dwindled to two by the time we got to the bottom of the entrance shaft. The youngest member of todays team had to turn round with complaints of tired arms after completing his IRATA Level 1 course the week before. The problem was he had the water and kettle for the brews in his tackle bag leaving Paz Vale and me, two parched 50 year olds, to save the day with very dry mouths.

We wasted no time in clearing about a tonne of rocks from the entrance to the dig site, most of it being thrown to the bottom of the Main Chamber. The dig is now ready for the first of the scaffolding and boards to go in next week.

Before leaving the Main Chamber we both commented on how few people we thought came down Eldon Hole only to find 6 students from Newcastle University on their way in for a trip into Damocles Rift.

Both the North and West routes are permanently rigged but you will need a 20m rope to get you down to where the permanent rigging starts on both routes. The West route has been rigged with a number of re-belays to facilitate a quicker exit for larger digging teams and easier to transport awkward heavy loads of scaffold tubes and boards using two descenders to zig zag your way through them.

Further digging trips are planned for this coming Tuesday and Thursday evenings with next weekends trip being on Sunday.

I'll keep you all informed of the progress.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: SJB on May 10, 2015, 12:14:41 pm
Brilliant, :clap2: this is exactly the co-operation and commitment that has yielded some impressive cave finds in the Peak in the last few years.  Having had the privilege of delivering the Peaks Round-up (Probably not to everyone's taste but ho hum) I have been staggered at the amount of new stuff that is uncovered year after year.  If you have regular digging sessions I may be able to join you and assist as and when I am available on the odd occasion as being over 50 I would seem to qualify...
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: danthecavingman on May 14, 2015, 06:34:01 pm
Evening all,

Just found this online after a bit of digging around - it's quite interesting - Lloyd's original published account with an addendum by Mr King.

http://rstl.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/61/250.full.pdf (http://rstl.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/61/250.full.pdf)

Good luck with the dig!

Dan.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Fulk on May 14, 2015, 08:34:05 pm
Fafcinating; what ftrikes me is that Mr Lloyd feems to give a fairly objective account of his defcent (even to the depth of ~fixty-two yds, which muft be pretty clofe to the currently accepted depth). Fo – what a pity . . . becaufe it feems to indicate that the diggerf will have their work cut out, fhifting all that rock that waf fo tragically chucked down there!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Moose on May 14, 2015, 09:05:19 pm
The issue of throwing material down EH is one that puzzles me somewhat.

I can't actually see why, all those years ago, anyone would want to go to the effort of carting several hundreds or even thousands of tons of material across the moor and dispose of it down a big hole in the ground. If it's miners debris we're talking about, it's common practice to dump it almost immediately at the entrance of the mine.

If on the other hand we're talking about walls and even remains of buildings as has also been discussed, in an age where building materials were hard enough to get hold of at the best of times I find it hard to understand why you would want to get rid of it so permanently.

It would be a safer bet to suggest that natural events have caused far greater infill to EH than any efforts of man.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: nickwilliams on May 14, 2015, 09:14:20 pm
Similar thoughts crossed my mind in the early stages of the Bullpit dig. A lot of what we took out looked a lot like walling stone, but I can't for the life of me see why anyone would dump it there. OTOH, I can't see a credible natural mechanism for it to get there either. But then I'm a physicist/engineer so perhaps someone with a better knowledge of rockology could come up with something?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: graham on May 14, 2015, 09:31:18 pm
People do throw rocks down holes, of that there is no doubt. My impression has always been that a dry stone wall was long ago constructed around Eldon Hole, presumably for safety reasons, and that this was steadily chucked down the Hole over a period of time, being added to as the landowner/tenant/whoever played a losing game of repairing against passers by intent on mindless amusement.

On a much smaller scale, I've seen a similar thing on Mendip. When we cleared out the Longwood Main Sink, much of what we removed was the remains of the drystone wall that Rich Witcombe  built around the sink a couple of decades back, at the behest of SWT. After we removed it, the stone was transported a little way down valley & used in the construction of the dam & retaining wall at Longwood Valley Sink. Fortunately, there, it is not a free standing wall as before but incorporated into a bank & thus less likely to be picked up by passers-by & dropped. There's no convenient deep hole or pool to splash stones into, either.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Les W on May 14, 2015, 09:32:20 pm
Plenty of examples of walling being bulldozed on Mendip, lots of depressions filled in with walling stone to level the ground and make larger fields...
Walling stone is not necessarily that good for building and years back the stone walls were not valued as part of the landscape, nor protected.
Farmers found them a nuisance to maintain, unlike nice barbwire fences and they were a liability then not a source of income as they are now...
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Moose on May 14, 2015, 09:35:59 pm
The bulldozer is a relatively recent invention, you would think twice about humping all that stone onto a cart at one end then humping it all off again at the other.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Moose on May 14, 2015, 09:37:34 pm
Not to mention repeating the process several thousand times...
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: MikeyP on May 14, 2015, 10:13:45 pm
Whatever happened to it, there was certainly a sizable wall right the way round the hole 100 odd years ago...

(http://www.thedpc.co.uk/images/temp-eldon-old.jpg)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on May 14, 2015, 10:35:49 pm
Aye, then again, i'm sure there was a photo in descent with a wall in when the original posts were put in by the old boys from crewe like shotlighter.


Edit: sure i saw it in one of the descent refs listed in the guide: http://www.peakdistrictcaving.info/caveguides/eldon_hole.pdf (http://www.peakdistrictcaving.info/caveguides/eldon_hole.pdf)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: shotlighter on May 14, 2015, 11:10:57 pm
Aye, then again, i'm sure there was a photo in descent with a wall in when the original posts were put in by the old boys from crewe like shotlighter.

Cheeky swine  :tease:

EDIT mind you it could have been worse, at least you didn't include "decrepit" as well as "old" in your description!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on May 14, 2015, 11:54:42 pm
Don't forget there's meant to be a dead guy and his horse buried down there somewhere too - thrown down by a highwayman after he robbed him, apparently. I don't know for certain what arrangements for access existed in the 18th and early 19th Centuries, but I'm guessing that if you weren't the farmer or a lead miner on one of the nearby veins, you probably shouldn't have been up there at all. I've often wondered how many 'tourists' actually tramped the plateau back in 1770. Can't have been that many.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on May 15, 2015, 12:21:39 am
Home!

Expect a picture heavy report by the weekend  ;D
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: dudley bug on May 15, 2015, 12:48:53 am
Best of luck with the dig, this is a really great project.

Here is another old reference from "Caves of the Earth" published by the Religious Tract Society in 1847 pp17-18 follows

(http://ogof.org.uk/Downloads/Eldon-1.png)

(http://ogof.org.uk/Downloads/Eldon-2.png)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Moose on May 15, 2015, 06:23:47 am
Whatever happened to it, there was certainly a sizable wall right the way round the hole 100 odd years ago...

([url]http://www.thedpc.co.uk/images/temp-eldon-old.jpg[/url])


Compared to the glacial events in the area that little wall is the least of their worries.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on May 15, 2015, 07:45:36 am
It's going to take a while before we are even through the layer of modern fill and rubbish.. Still pulling out batteries, plastic and bits of metal. Lots of bones too.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on May 15, 2015, 08:11:07 am
:p hope you're well. :)

Aye, then again, i'm sure there was a photo in descent with a wall in when the original posts were put in by the old boys from crewe like shotlighter.

Cheeky swine  :tease:

EDIT mind you it could have been worse, at least you didn't include "decrepit" as well as "old" in your description!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: AR on May 15, 2015, 08:33:46 am
Don't forget there's meant to be a dead guy and his horse buried down there somewhere too - thrown down by a highwayman after he robbed him, apparently. I don't know for certain what arrangements for access existed in the 18th and early 19th Centuries, but I'm guessing that if you weren't the farmer or a lead miner on one of the nearby veins, you probably shouldn't have been up there at all. I've often wondered how many 'tourists' actually tramped the plateau back in 1770. Can't have been that many.

Prior to enclosure, it was open common and anyone could wander at will on there but before the 19th century, tourists round there would have been an unusual occurrence.This was partly due to few having both the disposable income and the desire to visit what was generally considered "a howling wilderness" and partly due to the very real problem of footpads, who had no qualms about killing you for quite trivial sums - see Roger Flindall's "Mines, Quarries and Murders", which mentions cases where it was suspected people had been murdered by footpads and their corpses thrown into Eldon Hole. Given the presence of prehistoric enclosures nearby, I wouldn't be at all surprised if throwing people into the hole has very ancient roots,,,,

Like Graham, I think it's likely there would have been a wall or some kind of fence round the hole prior to enclosure, which would have needed occasional repair, and stone for it would have been taken from mine hillocks in the area. Significant attritional losses to the wall by visitors throwing stones into the hole is probably something fairly modern, as visitor numbers into the Peak gew over the last century.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: graham on May 15, 2015, 10:21:48 am
OK

This is the point at which the diggers shout at me & tell me to p*** off and mind my own business.

I would hope that, as the shaft descends, some sort of section through the infill becomes visible. It would be very interesting in the light of several of the comments above, if that section could be either recorded as work progresses (best) or at least preserved for later study. I know it's asking a lot but it would be really nice for old farts such as me to be given an idea as to just how the fill did form.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on May 15, 2015, 12:44:49 pm
Tom's latest Trip report here... http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=337:popping-a-ring&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58 (http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=337:popping-a-ring&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Madness on May 15, 2015, 12:56:51 pm
It's going to take a while before we are even through the layer of modern fill and rubbish.. Still pulling out batteries, plastic and bits of metal. Lots of bones too.

If you find any human bones, you might get some digging help from Derbyshire Constabulary.  ;)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 15, 2015, 08:08:01 pm
Lloyds report posted by danthecavingman was our primary document when contemplating taking on the project.

In Fig. 111 of the report Lloyd mentions the height of the arch that leads into the Main Chamber at 'B' as being +/- 3 yards. Some of the measurements he gives of the Main Chamber are a little over exaggerated, but when all you have is a candle you might expect this. The +/- 3 yards though, you would think as being fairly accurate and easily within view. Today, the arch is less than a yard. The depth of the main shaft should have been easy to measure fairly accurately. 

When members of the Eldon dug down in the area approx. 2 yards upslope of 'T', near the bottom of the Main Chamber, they hit a solid floor at +/- 8' suggesting that approx. 8' of additional rock has been thrown in (or otherwise deposited) since Lloyds visit. We removed a fair number of sizeable tree branches from about 5' depth in the very small area we were digging on Sunday so over the whole area of the bottom of the Main Chamber this could possibly account for some of the volume.     

The report suggests that it was not too many years before Lloyds visit that the elusive second shaft was actually descended for some vast depth before reaching water.

It could well be that there isn't the vast amount of rock as Lloyd suggests in Fig 111 at all, he probably assumed it had a flat floor whereas the reports of descending the second shaft talk about steep ledges leading into it. In the area around the dig site, there might actually only be about 10' of rock to clear out before you find the old oak timbers that the miners most likely placed around the much narrower descending second shaft. If they actually did?

The bottom of the shaft we are currently digging (see MarkR's BBPC link with photographs) should be below this point within only a few weeks.

I am though, forever the optimist.

I do think, for the sake of consistency with Lloyds reporting, we should use imperial units in our reports. That'll confuse the therionists.

Mark     
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: cavermark on May 15, 2015, 08:26:07 pm
Frost shattering off the walls is the only current process for a creating rock debris in a shaft (without a stream) that I can think of.  I doubt it would have produced that amount of rock in 200 years.  I suppose a big slump of material from further up could have occurred (held back by an old ice plug that then melted?) but that seems unlikely.  Looking at the size of scree around the base of limestone crags I'd expect smaller sized lumps than the average walling stone.

The account seems accurate in most ways so maybe the bit about material being dumped in is also accurate. I agree that it seems odd that anyone would want to go to the trouble of filling the shaft in though (superstition? stop the devil escaping?)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: graham on May 15, 2015, 08:32:53 pm

I do think, for the sake of consistency with Lloyds reporting, we should use imperial units in our reports. That'll confuse the therionists.


Sorry, but Therion - and indeed Survex - can cope with any mix of units that you can throw at it, even if you change them from one leg to the next.  8)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: cavermark on May 15, 2015, 10:27:01 pm
There's quite a range of leg length within the digging team though...  with a Mark at each end of the spectrum probably  ;)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on May 15, 2015, 10:45:35 pm
I was asked for some pic's of the mildly posing team so prepare to scroll.......



Mark always caves with wood between his legs
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8778/17071024923_b8358735e4_z.jpg)

and never looks where he's going
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5469/17691215905_19c1fea72c_z.jpg)

Chris seems more relaxed with the wood issue
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5335/17503272718_23d2d62810_z.jpg)



and what started as a bank that wouldn't stay still
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7696/17669611396_fc63131444_z.jpg)

soon turned into something more reassuring
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5450/17696309015_d8703ee612_z.jpg)

The housework needs to be kept up to date
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8768/17696184101_15d6811aef_z.jpg)

But it's looking like a pretty good start
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7736/17070539543_000020f7d7_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 16, 2015, 01:43:36 pm

I do think, for the sake of consistency with Lloyds reporting, we should use imperial units in our reports. That'll confuse the therionists.


Sorry, but Therion - and indeed Survex - can cope with any mix of units that you can throw at it, even if you change them from one leg to the next.  8)

I wasn't thinking of the programs, I was thinking all those who aren't old enough to know what yards, feet and inches are.

OK

This is the point at which the diggers shout at me & tell me to p*** off and mind my own business.

I would hope that, as the shaft descends, some sort of section through the infill becomes visible. It would be very interesting in the light of several of the comments above, if that section could be either recorded as work progresses (best) or at least preserved for later study. I know it's asking a lot but it would be really nice for old farts such as me to be given an idea as to just how the fill did form.

We have been keeping a good photographic record of the dig to date, something we regretted we didn't do very well during the Rowter Hole dig so don't worry Graham I won't tell you to p*** off, we will try and keep as good a record as possible within the constraints of the shaft as it progresses.

We are back in there tomorrow so I will let you know how we get on.

Markl 
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Pitlamp on May 17, 2015, 08:17:41 am
Been working too hard recently; only just seen this topic for the first time. Delighted this most promising dig is being done seriously at last; congratulations to the team and very best wishes for success.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: graham on May 17, 2015, 04:36:28 pm
I wasn't thinking of the programs, I was thinking all those who aren't old enough to know what yards, feet and inches are.

Another topic, methinks. But I can say that UBSS Proceedings 'went metric' in about 1968 yet certain other Mendip club publications did not do so until very, very recently.

We have been keeping a good photographic record of the dig to date, something we regretted we didn't do very well during the Rowter Hole dig so don't worry Graham I won't tell you to p*** off, we will try and keep as good a record as possible within the constraints of the shaft as it progresses.

We are back in there tomorrow so I will let you know how we get on.

Markl

Thanks, much appreciated.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 17, 2015, 09:01:05 pm
With Paz Vale, Sam Pemberton and Bob Toogood of the EPC we had an excellent days digging today. We once again pulled out a lot of rock and all the boards shown in the photographs posted by TomTom have been lowered to just above shaft top level and the dig is ready for the next scaffold ring to be installed at the bottom of the shaft on Thursday. A pulley has been installed above the shaft and ready for Tuesdays trip to haul some more rock.

Mark 
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Dan on May 20, 2015, 11:21:00 am
Good Trip last night, 5 Eldon members, and a meter of rock dug out! Things are going well very easy digging.

Dan
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: SamT on May 20, 2015, 07:06:21 pm

Bit of a write up on progress here...

http://www.eldonpotholeclub.org.uk/index.php/homepage/current-uk-projects/eldon-hole/250-a-ton-of-rock (http://www.eldonpotholeclub.org.uk/index.php/homepage/current-uk-projects/eldon-hole/250-a-ton-of-rock)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Roger W on May 20, 2015, 07:34:14 pm
 :thumbsup:

It's looking good!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 22, 2015, 01:23:16 am
With 4 diggers crying off tonight (Thursday) it left Mark Richardson, TomTom, Henry Rockliff and me to make 2 trips over to the entrance with 32 x 1.8m boards. Mark had left them out in the rain the previous night so they were quite heavy.

Once we had double Stopped our heavy loads down the shaft and manipulated them through the rather miserable squirm that leads to the Main Chamber we set about getting the next ring into position.

Due to the shape of the walls in the next section of passage there would need to be some very complicated bracing required to make the structure stable so we decided to step the shaft in a bit and continue as a triangular shaft. This will ensure we get the stainless pins that support the ends of the scaffold tubes at the right angle to provide most strength. Its also a lot cheeper to build a two sided shaft than a 3 sided one. We may well decide to step it down again in another 1.8m.

We installed the first 2 triangular rings and got all the boards in place ready for Sundays trip where we should be able to drop the shaft to -3.6m.

I think it was about 7pm when we set off down and it was warm and sunny. When peering over the handrail at the dig site, with nobody actually in the dig, I could definitely feel a cool draught on my face. At around 9.30pm I stuck my head through the awkward (currently) squeeze a little lower down and could feel no draught at all. When I was digging out rocks from the base of the shaft I'm sure I had a cool feeling on my face?

The section through the shaft is much the same as before but there have been more larger rocks coming out at this level. No horses or their riders yet.   

Keep an eye out for Sundays trip report.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: SamT on May 22, 2015, 11:24:47 am
Great stuff.  I was lay in bed thinking about the next ring the other night  and thought triangle! !

the shape of the walls certainly  lends itself  to that there. presumably with a 90 deg  'point'
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on May 22, 2015, 12:21:22 pm
Quote
No horses or their riders yet.
Neeigh lad - you just haven't dug deep enough yet. As an aside, this skull was briefly glimpsed as backfill (or was used as an impromptu stemple!) in the roof of an old opencut a while back:

(http://www.pwhole.com/dump/images/_IGP0526_sm.jpg)

But great work all of you. I think this one will pay dividends.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 22, 2015, 05:06:54 pm
Great stuff.  I was lay in bed thinking about the next ring the other night  and thought triangle! !

the shape of the walls certainly  lends itself  to that there. presumably with a 90 deg  'point'

SamT,

You need to get yourself a girlfriend, never mind laying in bed dreaming about triangular rings!!!

Yes it has a 90 deg. point made with a scaffolders 'Double' fitting. We had an idea the walls might start curving in after our first trip and discussed the triangle then. It cuts the costs down significantly and in theory should be a more solid structure that the rectangular top section. The top section is a pretty solid structure though.

If anybody is at a loose end for a caving trip over this bank holiday, we could do with the wooden ladders on the Gin Shaft in Rowter Hole taking down Eldon Hole. It would be greatly appreciated. PM me if anyone would like to help the project. Just getting them out of Rowter Hole and leaving them at the farm would be good.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: SamT on May 22, 2015, 10:39:52 pm


You need to get yourself a girlfriend, never mind laying in bed dreaming about triangular rings!!!


 :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: bograt on May 23, 2015, 12:05:56 am
Steady Mark, some of us go back a long way and have memories.---OFF TOPIC.!!!

Stick with Eldon, Superb Project, go for it  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Rob on May 24, 2015, 09:50:15 pm
A quick preliminary on the survey Katie and I did today, subject to proper GPS fixing:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 24, 2015, 09:51:29 pm
Paz Vale, Dan Hibberts, Sam Pemberton, Nigel Strong and me were at the dig site by about 11am today and made excellent progress downwards.

Rob and Katie Eavis joined us shortly after and did a Disto X survey of the whole cave including the current bottom of the dig and up into Damocles Rift, with the highest point being only about 6m from the surface.

Ann Soulsby, Roy Fellows, Alastair Gott and 1 other from the TSG (sorry I didn't catch your name) also popped down to give us a lending hand which was greatly appreciated.

By the end of the day we had installed the third triangular ring, knocked all the boards down and even got the next set of boards slotted into position. Unfortunately we were 8 boards short. The floor of the shaft is now at a depth of +/-3.8m and level with the squeeze that drops you into the awkward downward continuation. Tuesdays trip should be able to clear the base of the the shaft ready for the next ring to go in and cap the large boulder at the squeeze.

The section through the shaft is the same as ever but we did occasionally notice a good draft coming up through the rocks in the floor as we were digging. Very encouraging. It was cool and a bit misty when we went in and cloudy and warmish when we got out at 5pm.

We decided to keep the shaft in the same place for the next 1.8m and possibly step it in at the bottom of this section. That is of course assuming it doesn't go in the next 1.8m. I'm forever hopeful.

Mark
 
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Rob on May 25, 2015, 12:22:23 pm
A quick snap from yesterday's dig, taken with my new Android surveying tool as an experiment:
(http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag116/RobEavis/2015-05-24%2014.41.15_zpsnisbmsbz.jpg)

Plus a short video:
http://vid1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag116/RobEavis/2015-05-24%2014.42.01_zpsc1anl9iz.mp4 (http://vid1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag116/RobEavis/2015-05-24%2014.42.01_zpsc1anl9iz.mp4)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on May 25, 2015, 12:59:36 pm
Did I actually see AlastairGott picking up rocks in that there video? Fantastic excavation. Is that vein I can see in the top-right corner of the photo?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Goydenman on May 25, 2015, 01:07:20 pm
Like the way you have organised the digging - plenty of room. Looks like you are making fast progress. Thanks for the video it is very clear.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on May 25, 2015, 04:04:37 pm
err umm err... might have been me, popped out for a short morning trip into sidetrack but failed again, as the guy from suss had lost his keys :s

so the trip turned into a longer afternoon trip as I followed Ann, Roy and Alex Crow down their rope and they left me there. so I thought I might as well help :)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on May 25, 2015, 04:19:21 pm
Well good work that lad. You'll get into Sidetrack eventually. Probably not via Eldon Hole though.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on May 25, 2015, 04:26:01 pm
ye of little faith  :tease:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Madness on May 25, 2015, 09:54:20 pm
A spacious dig is that...

...enough room for two diggers and a supervisor! ;)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mrs Trellis on May 26, 2015, 02:15:50 pm
...enough room for two diggers and a supervisor! ;)

Did they used to work for the Council?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 26, 2015, 08:03:18 pm
By the time we get down to the bottom of the boards we positioned on Sunday there will be room for 3 diggers, 1 Supervisor and an apprentice Supervisor.

Mark Richardson went down yesterday afternoon and took the 8 boards we were short of and slotted them into position ready for the next digging trip. He also capped the large boulder at the top of the squeeze and an equally sizeable one underneath it. Most of the diggers are working away from home this week so it'll probably be Saturday before the next trip which should see the shaft boarded down to -5m?

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Pegasus on May 26, 2015, 11:46:54 pm
Who's going to be the apprentice supervisor??  ;D
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mrs Trellis on May 27, 2015, 07:49:10 am
The one drinking the tea and looking vacant.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on May 27, 2015, 08:38:02 am
Is anyone around on Saturday to lend a hand? Just myself plus one at the moment.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on May 27, 2015, 01:44:07 pm
What constriction is there? looking at the photo I cant see one, is it something youre just unearthing?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on May 27, 2015, 01:45:28 pm
If I'm free this weekend (50 50 chance at the moment) I'll be up for joining you. I cant do anything technical but I can lift and carry. I live in Leeds and dont have a car, where and when would I need to be? is there somewhere I can meet you to get a lift? I dont mind getting a train to manchester or something.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 27, 2015, 01:55:34 pm
Speleotron,

The constriction is at the level we are currently at. It was an awkward squeeze you had to go through to reach the bottom of the original dig. Its not there any more and it wont be long before all traces of the original dig are gone.

There will be a small team going down on Saturday lunchtime. I'm working on Saturday morning so wont be there until later in the afternoon. Can't help with a lift unfortuantely as I'm not really sure when I will be there.

Maybe someone else on here may be able to help with your transport problems or choose a different weekend when more people will be going.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on May 27, 2015, 02:00:37 pm
OK sounds good.

No point sorting out a lift for me if im only 50 50 about coming, I'll know tomorrow. I could get a train to Hope or somewhere like that.

Jonny (I was on the york Berger expedition in 2011 that you and the badgers came on)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Moose on May 27, 2015, 02:45:52 pm
For the record:

Myself and Ron Hammond (ex EPC member) went up to the entrance today to get an accurate GPS fix on station 0.

Once the data has been post processed we will be able to confidently hang the work Rob and Katie did onto a fix which is within a few hundred millimetres of spot on.

Either myself or Rob will post a link when the survey is 100%
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 27, 2015, 02:53:32 pm
Moose,

Thanks for that.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: seamoose on May 27, 2015, 03:12:26 pm
The constriction is at the level we are currently at. It was an awkward squeeze you had to go through to reach the bottom of the original dig. Its not there any more and it wont be long before all traces of the original dig are gone.


Rough sketch I made at the time of our original dig, showing the awkward constriction....

(http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7790/18161077015_e0e2432833_b.jpg)

Jase
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on May 28, 2015, 01:47:39 pm
I'm up for coming on Saturday if somebody can give me a train station and a time to meet them there. No worries if you're not short staffed any more and it's too much of a faff.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Rob on May 28, 2015, 01:52:42 pm
On the West wall of Eldon Hole, ~15m down, there's a couple phreatic looking passages/alcoves that are easily visible from the North Route. Does anyone know of anyone who has been into these? It looks like only a few bolts would be required, so i presume someone has, plus I've heard a rumor that they don't go anywhere other than "a pretty little grotto". But i'd like a first hand report if possible....
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Moose on May 28, 2015, 02:40:13 pm
The GPS data for the fix at the entrance is now as good as it's going to get. Thanks to Ron for the processing work.

I've now integrated that into the survex model and the link to it is here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tjmwcual5fk36ty/Eldon_Hole_Master.3d?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/tjmwcual5fk36ty/Eldon_Hole_Master.3d?dl=0)

Also working on a surface overlay of the DTM data, that's partially done as you will see if you hit the 'surface' button.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Rob on May 28, 2015, 02:47:04 pm
So according to this, the top of Damocles is 22m directly below the surface.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Moose on May 28, 2015, 02:48:16 pm
No Rob.

The top of Damocles Rift IS 22m from the surface.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: ianball11 on May 28, 2015, 04:16:13 pm
No Rob.

The top of Damocles Rift IS 22m from the surface.

 :clap2:   made me chuckle

Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on May 28, 2015, 05:17:07 pm
Jonny, (aka Speleotron) I guess you could get to Stockport train station and if Mark R is passing through Stockport he could give you a lift?

Not sure what the cost would be.

knew you'd be interested in this :)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on May 28, 2015, 05:22:39 pm
other than that you've got two options:

both involve walking from doveholes (near Buxton) to Eldon hole

1) train to Manchester then second train to doveholes.
or
2) train to Stockport then 199 skyline (bus) to doveholes.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on May 28, 2015, 08:10:02 pm
THanks Gotzone how far is Eldon Hole from Dovestones?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on May 28, 2015, 09:16:36 pm
Dove holes, make sure you goto dove holes....

Dovestones is quite a way. But it does have a nice reservoir and hills.


Google says 4miles walk to eldon lane but says that'll take 1hr 20ish, you know the way from eldon lane. If not you can see eldon hole on satellite. It's north of the top of eldon lane (past the wood).

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Dove+Holes,+Derbyshire,+UK/Eldon+Ln,+Buxton+SK17+8EW,+UK/@53.305662,-1.857957,13z/data= (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Dove+Holes,+Derbyshire,+UK/Eldon+Ln,+Buxton+SK17+8EW,+UK/@53.305662,-1.857957,13z/data=)!4m8!4m7!1m2!1m1!1s0x487a33cc272a676f:0xd85181db8886a8ba!1m2!1m1!1s0x487a2d8ea62d723b:0x80f39bc39585ea1f!3e2?hl=en


Or ask someone whether they can pick you up...
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on May 28, 2015, 09:28:33 pm
Thanks. If sombody can pick me up form a station I'll come along, if its going to be a faff then no worries I'll come along later, sounds like a great dig.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on May 28, 2015, 10:32:58 pm
Hi, sorry but I'll be coming from the other direction as late as possible and probably with the remnants of a mild hangover!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on May 28, 2015, 11:34:49 pm
Just out of interest, where is station 0 in relation to the surface features? Or which route top is nearest?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Rob on May 29, 2015, 08:24:05 am
Station 0 (rh270515) is the concrete anchor at the top of the West Route.

Station 1a is the left concrete anchor at the top of the East Route.

Station 1 is the main edge at the top of the East Route.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mrs Trellis on May 29, 2015, 09:46:27 am
There's the hourly 190 bus Buxton to Whaley Bridge via Chinley railway station and the Wanted Inn, Sparrowpit.

Trains from Manchester Piccadilly to either Buxton or Chinley then bus to the Wanted Inn. They reckon it's about 100 minutes in total Piccadilly to the Wanted.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: bograt on May 29, 2015, 10:52:46 am
Trains from Sheffield stop at all the stations in Hope Valley; Grindleford, Hathersage, Bamford, Hope, Edale, Chinley, New Mills.

The 190 bus service goes through Peak Forest, nearer the hole than the Wanted.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mrs Trellis on May 29, 2015, 11:21:41 am
True

http://www.highpeakbuses.com/Documents/189-190%20-%20Buxton%20-%20Whaley%20Bridge.pdf (http://www.highpeakbuses.com/Documents/189-190%20-%20Buxton%20-%20Whaley%20Bridge.pdf)
 
Does the X67 still run to Tideswell?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: AR on May 29, 2015, 12:09:28 pm
Looking at the county bus timetable library on the councty council website, I think the 190 is the only one calling at Peak Forest these days.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on May 29, 2015, 01:24:01 pm
That bus works but the last one leaves Peak forest at 5 pm which would only give me an hour or two at the dig so I'll come another time I think. Would like to help out on this dig, it's ideal for bad weather days, at least it will still be going when I get a car  ;)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 30, 2015, 01:41:59 am
Would like to help out on this dig, it's ideal for bad weather days, at least it will still be going when I get a car  ;)

You had better be quick getting that car.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on May 30, 2015, 06:58:50 pm
30/05/15

Chris H, Tim Webber, Claire Dunphy, Dan H, Bob Toogood, Paz Vale, A friend of Dans, two guys from MUSC sorry, I can't remember your names!

Chris and I arrived at 11:00 to an already busy carpark, we knew there would be a couple from SUSS/ MUSC joining us for some of the day but we're surprised to have such a large team- great stuff!

Whilst everyone was getting changed Dan managed to arrange vehicle access to the entrance for one trip with a big load of boards and scaffolding. This week will see us collecting stuff together and next Saturday it will all be taken up.

There were three routes rigged into the bottom of the hole which was good given how many of us there were. It only took a few minutes to have the music on and work began. For most of the day there were 7 of us, I had taken down the big hauling rope and gin wheel we used in Rowter and someone else had got hold of a couple more digging buckets and a hauling net. We had two people on the intermediate ledge hauling, two at the top removing buckets and tipping the spoil and three digging (yes, there is that much space). The buckets practically flew out, as fast as a bucket was hauled up, which was fast, an empty one was sent down but in the meantime a third was being filled. It worked like a dream and incredible progress was made. We all guessed at around 300 buckets for the day. We got the next ring in and dug another metre or so out of the floor beyond that to a point ready for more ring action.

We are thinking continue with big dimensions for now in the position we are in. The further into the rift you move the more clay you find.. Glacial fill which is not a great sign.

Oh yes- we did find some very big jawbones (horse?) and an extremely delicate brimmed leather hat!

Chris, TomTom and I may be back down tomorrow so will try and take some photos.

Mark R
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: graham on May 30, 2015, 08:28:35 pm

Oh yes- we did find some very big jawbones (horse?) and an extremely delicate brimmed leather hat!


Horse jaws are fairly easily identified, I wonder if it's worth trying to get a date ID on the hat from a local museum.

And I don't want to second guess anyone else's expertise, but are you sure the clay is actually glacial in origin?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on May 30, 2015, 08:46:02 pm
Will have a car soon!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: SamT on May 30, 2015, 09:17:00 pm

So are we thinking that the hat was thrown (blown) down the hole many many years ago, then buried under all the rock that was subsequently tipped down the hole??
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on May 30, 2015, 09:47:38 pm
More questions than answers I'm afraid.. Looks like we are down again tomorrow so I will take the camera and try to post some photos tomorrow evening.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on May 30, 2015, 11:04:14 pm
^David Duncan and Darren Jarvis from MUSC, i believe.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on May 31, 2015, 12:08:35 am
Sounds like tentative evidence for a highwayman robbery to me. In which case there probably won't be any old money.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: AR on May 31, 2015, 08:56:04 am
Quick way to tell whether the jawbones are horse or cow, do they have front teeth or not?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: peterk on May 31, 2015, 11:47:21 am
Cow http://www.skullsunlimited.com/userfiles/image/category5_species_1485_large_2.jpg (http://www.skullsunlimited.com/userfiles/image/category5_species_1485_large_2.jpg)

(http://www.skullsunlimited.com/userfiles/image/category5_species_1485_large_2.jpg)



Horse http://www.skullsunlimited.com/userfiles/image/category5_species_1628_large_2.jpg (http://www.skullsunlimited.com/userfiles/image/category5_species_1628_large_2.jpg)

(http://www.skullsunlimited.com/userfiles/image/category5_species_1628_large_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Paz Vale on May 31, 2015, 02:53:37 pm
All the large animal bones we've pulled out so far are from domestic cattle, no sheep bones although these are fairly common in the boulder slope beneath the entrance to the main chamber.

The rocks that we're pulling out still seem to contain a fair bit of walling stone along with angular cobble sized pieces.  This stone certainly post dates the sediment fill in the rift of the old dig as what we've been digging through is clean stone, the only mud being that pulled out of the old dig and dumped at the top of the shaft.  Also what stone I've pulled out of the sediment fill is more rounded and there is an abrupt transition between these and the more angular material in the dig.

I've not been able to get a good luck at the sediment  in the side of the shaft, we need to drop down another metre or so yet and what is exposed in the old dig is too messed up to study in detail.  I wouldn't say that it is glacial in origin though, more likely local sediments washed in combined with those produced by solution and abrasion of the limestone probably when the main chamber was flooded and beneath the local water table.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on May 31, 2015, 09:20:32 pm
Chris H, Tom H, Mark R

Day two of Eldon Hole digging this weekend. After yesterday’s big hauling session Chris and I were feeling a little sore but still keen to go back down and get some more work done. We met at the civilised time of 11:00 and walked up with only one scaffold pole, three planks and three tackle bags between us. Tom Tom was suitably impressed by the progress since he was last there but there was no time for messing about... we began digging and hauling straight away to clear space for another ring. Yesterday we weren’t sure how many buckets we pulled out but guessed at around 300. We counted and timed today, we pulled out 80 buckets in 25 minutes. That’s about 30 buckets every 10 minutes, which averages out at one bucket every 20 seconds- filled, attached, hauled to the top, unclipped, carried to the spoil heap and returned to the top. We should probably revise yesterday’s estimate to something closer to 500!

Eventually we got the ring in and all boards hammered down, completing almost 2m of digging this weekend. We had to spend quite a bit of time backfilling behind the boards, it’s important that we keep packing spoil behind boards as we go to prevent any voids forming and giving material the chance to move. With that all done, we took some photos and packed up then headed to the pub for food and beer feeling very satisfied with this weekend’s efforts.

(http://www.butteredbadger.com/images/gallery/peak_district/_dsc5241.jpg)

(http://www.butteredbadger.com/images/gallery/peak_district/_dsc5277.jpg)

(http://www.butteredbadger.com/images/gallery/peak_district/_dsc5283.jpg)

(http://www.butteredbadger.com/images/gallery/peak_district/_dsc5284.jpg)

(http://www.butteredbadger.com/images/gallery/peak_district/_dsc5292.jpg)

(http://www.butteredbadger.com/images/gallery/peak_district/_dsc5298.jpg)

(http://www.butteredbadger.com/images/gallery/peak_district/_dsc5310.jpg)

(http://www.butteredbadger.com/images/gallery/peak_district/_dsc5314.jpg)

(http://www.butteredbadger.com/images/gallery/peak_district/_dsc5328.jpg)

(http://www.butteredbadger.com/images/gallery/peak_district/_dsc5337.jpg)

Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Pegasus on May 31, 2015, 09:35:54 pm
I may have to moderate against posting pictures of horse skulls!! - Pegasus  :lol:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on May 31, 2015, 10:26:58 pm
Bloody hell, a whole second set of 7ft boards in one weekend?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Madness on May 31, 2015, 10:34:11 pm
You're doing a fantastic job. I wish I had a bit of spare time to lend a hand.
With all that effort, you deserve to be successful.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: jdduncan on May 31, 2015, 10:46:18 pm
^David Duncan and Darren Jarvis from MUSC, i believe.
Afraid not Al; I've only been tourist trips in Cuba lately.  I believe it was the haggis-eating David Dunlop who was out with Darren.  Looking forward to seeing the dig sometime though.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mrs Trellis on June 01, 2015, 09:00:43 am
Stunning photos of a superb effort.

well done chaps.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Bottlebank on June 01, 2015, 11:00:41 am
You seem to be slacking a little, otherwise you wouldn't have had time to take all those photos  ;)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Pipster on June 01, 2015, 11:01:53 am
Awesome work guys! Nice pics too.

:thumbsup:

I usually dig elsewhere in the peak on Thursday, but should I find myself at a loose end (i.e. lack of diggers) - can I chip in?  :)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on June 01, 2015, 11:08:14 am
Pipster,

The more the merrier.

We have regular trips on both Tuesday and Thursday evenings meeting at the car park up Eldon Lane at around 7.15pm on Tuesday and 6.30pm on Thursday.

There will also be a big trip this coming Saturday, meeting at 10am.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 01, 2015, 12:27:54 pm
Can anyone identify either horse or cow from that photo?
Also, does anyone know of a way of getting both the bones and the hat dated?

Please leave the hat where it is for now, it's extremely delicate and i'd like to try and arrange a more permanent home for it before trying to transport it out. on that note- anyone have any ideas for museums etc that may be interested??
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on June 01, 2015, 12:39:01 pm
You could have the hat carbon dated as its leather, but I heard somewhere that if samples are waterlogged for a long time it isnt too accurate (might not be right though not an expert)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: AR on June 01, 2015, 01:02:57 pm
Both the bones and the hat could potentially be carbon dated but now they've been moved there's the possibility of contamination which would affect the date, plus there's the cost of the dating  - it would be somewhere in the region of £150-£200 per test.

Regarding the bones, I'd say they're more likely to be cow; if you look at the posted skull pictures you can see the vestigal canines on the horse (known as wolf teeth) though not all horses have these, and the jawbones found don't look to have them. I think it's far more likely that cattle thought to have died from something infectious would have been disposed of down the hole  in the past than horses.

Regarding the hat, how waterlogged was the surrounding fill? I'd suggest that rather than just leaving it sat on one side, it should be put in a sealed container to prevent further drying out/degeneration. Might be worth having a word with Buxton Museum about it too.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on June 01, 2015, 01:08:22 pm
theoretically I suppose I could do radiocarbon dating in work, we have the equipment I imagine. I'll look into it!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Pegasus on June 01, 2015, 02:26:48 pm
Can anyone identify either horse or cow from that photo?

Happy to help - this is what a horse looks like  ;D

(https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/p261x260/11295568_848591455215688_283860337645116367_n.jpg?oh=52f7c76cff130e5d8283bd671eb3178f&oe=5602A6BE)

...sorry, couldn't help myself.....
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: bograt on June 01, 2015, 02:49:12 pm
Would John Barnatt be interested?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mrs Trellis on June 01, 2015, 03:00:58 pm
Re walling stone - I'm sure a) I've read somewhere that at least three walls have descended the hole and b) I've seen a photo of a wall at Eldon with a door in it to admit the paying public. (Possibly one of those historical b/w books they sell in Castleton Visitor Centre)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on June 01, 2015, 03:06:21 pm
From the old records we have it is suggested that when there was a wall around it the farmer had to replace it every +/- 7 years!! I've not seen anything regarding the public paying to see the cave though.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: graham on June 01, 2015, 04:04:20 pm
Wouldn't get too excited by the prospects of C14 dating just yet, but I would certainly get the hat (kept moist & preferably sealed) to teh local Museum for a look see.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 01, 2015, 08:01:10 pm
From the old records we have it is suggested that when there was a wall around it the farmer had to replace it every +/- 7 years!!

If only he'd built the first one with a dab of cement here and there!

Thanks for the hat advice everyone, I'll try and get it out carefully on Thursday night. Will get in touch with the museum before then.
Jane, thanks for the horse advice too!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: graham on June 01, 2015, 08:30:27 pm
According to the wife, who is a museum curator, there is a costume museum near Ashbourne. http://www.hopehousemuseum.co.uk/ (http://www.hopehousemuseum.co.uk/) I suggest that you contact them.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Moose on June 01, 2015, 08:51:04 pm
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't there a hat museum in Stockport?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on June 01, 2015, 09:42:19 pm
Yes there is a hat huseum in stockport, the chimney is the view out of the window in my office.

I'll pop in and ask tomorrow, you're right, they might be able to help. I'll ask if there is a better place for it, maybe castleton visitors centre?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on June 01, 2015, 10:39:07 pm
I thought i'd seen it somewhere...

Could just be a coincidence and there are probably quite a few hats in there, but...

Descent (150) oct/nov 1999
Gives an article about the Explorers of Eldon Hole. (pg. 26-27)

on page 27 in the middle column is a short exert, which begins 3 lines up from the bottom.
"when a man in ascending, dropped his cap into the hole, our friend shouted a rigmarole, of which the only words we could catch were: 'winterbottom - coming up the hole - cut - his head', 'cut his head?' we enquired sympathetically, and a wrathful shout was the reply.....somebody upstairs came to the rescue, and explained that the word was 'cap' and not 'cut', and our fear of a sanguinary accident was relieved"

Could this be Mr Winterbottom's hat?

Also, this article gives some pictures of the use of the bosun's chair, and one of the several walls which have been seen around eldon in years past.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 02, 2015, 07:42:43 am
Nice one fellas, thanks for all that!
Alistair, any chance you could scan that article to post on here at some point??
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on June 02, 2015, 12:40:27 pm
not sure about copywrite and that (as you can still buy it on the wild places website for £5.75...), I'd be more than happy though.
 It's not my copy of descent so can't scrunch it up and lob it in my bike bag to copy at work... so i'll have to wait until benfool is back and ask him to scan and post.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on June 02, 2015, 01:54:40 pm
The Ball is rolling with finding out about the Hat, we'll see what comes back.

One thing he did say was to leave the hat where it was at the moment till we find out how to restore a leather hat. the worst thing you can do is to put it in a plastic bag. out in the air is fine and is the best possible way of keeping it restored for the moment, as it has lasted years already.

his first thought without seeing any photo's is that it could be a bradda hat, with the hard brim for putting candles on http://www.peakdistrictleadminingmuseum.co.uk/our-collection/browse-our-collection/personal-items (http://www.peakdistrictleadminingmuseum.co.uk/our-collection/browse-our-collection/personal-items)

The fact that Eldon hole was also a tourist destination changes matters slightly.

Mark R, if you have a photo you could send to be it might help. (alastairgott@hotmail.com)

The man said he would have a word with the curation team, but stressed that they might be busy as they have a museum in stockport which needs restoring, so please can we leave the hat insitu? (perhaps a small laminated sign might be in order? I know things have been going missing recently in the peak and it would be a right shame...)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: AR on June 02, 2015, 03:13:14 pm
The hat doesn't look like a Bradda to me as they were round-crowned - there's a not particularly good quality copy of the Bradwell measure day photo athttp://www.peakdistrict.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/90925/lead-chapter1.pdf (http://www.peakdistrict.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/90925/lead-chapter1.pdf) showing them , plus they were made of heavy felt, not leather.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: bograt on June 02, 2015, 03:32:47 pm
Not a Bradda, crown too low, brim too wide, would cast an inconvenient shadow with a candle on the brim. I read somewhere that Bradda's were felt toughened up with resin, more like a Bowler.
 Looks more like a Fedora style to me, I wonder if Terry Pratchet ever went to Eldon  :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on June 02, 2015, 05:58:27 pm
I'll see if I can get a better photograph of the hat tonight.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on June 03, 2015, 01:19:21 am
No luck with getting a photograph of the hat but to be honest it looks like a childrens' hat to me and probably not worth getting over excited about. I'll leave it to the experts though.

Dave Cowley, Bog Bergman, Jon and Sam Pemberton from the Eldon and me had another successful trip this evening. We didn't start counting buckets until 9pm but by 9.40pm we pulled out 100 buckets so probably about 150 buckets in total. We've been pulling out some quite sizeable boulders tonight and there are a few in the floor that will need capping before we can pull them out. Still occasionally draughting up through the floor of the shaft as rocks are shifted. We should have the next ring in place on Thursday and get the next set of 20 boards installed.

Only just made last orders in the Red Lion in Litton thanks to us running back to the cars. A good call by Dave.

Keep an eye out for Thursdays trip report.

Mark

   



   
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: AR on June 03, 2015, 08:27:37 am
Not a Bradda, crown too low, brim too wide, would cast an inconvenient shadow with a candle on the brim.

Have you ever tried going underground wearing a Bradda with a candle on the brim? I borrowed Whacker's when I did the Aditnow costume trip a couple of years back with the result that both me and the dog got covered in wax splatters; I concluded that the miners only ever stuck the candle on the brim when they needed both hands but couldn't stick the candle to the wall.... :-\
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Hasbeen caver on June 03, 2015, 09:38:24 am
No luck with getting a photograph of the hat but to be honest it looks like a childrens' hat to me and probably not worth getting over excited about. I'll leave it to the experts though.
 

But surely the interesting bit about the hat isn't the type, but the age - given how the number of metres of rock it was buried under, and the speculation as to the origin of this rock?

Anyway, what a fantastic project, and having the trip reports in real time with photos of the progress is a real treat!

Good luck!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 03, 2015, 12:30:37 pm
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/t31.0-8/10924138_10153337345188908_8753608340659922710_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on June 03, 2015, 02:48:00 pm
I should have said it looks like a more modern childrens hat. Its got the remnants of some sort of emblem on the front of it. Everyone on yesterday evenings trip agreed. The fact it was found a couple of metres down can be a bit misleading. The original entrance to the dig has collapsed on a number of occasions over the years so the hat could have been washed into the shaft by the movement of boulders. We were finding more modern tin cans a little above the level the hat was found.

As I said we will leave it to the experts to decide but I wouldn't put money on it being very old at all.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: SamT on June 03, 2015, 04:00:54 pm
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/03/433f047a75c55c14e8a25000ec383e56.jpg)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on June 03, 2015, 06:17:58 pm
3 Degree's of Separation?

So in finding out about this hat the person I spoke to said that he recognised the town of Castleton.


The reason because a man called John Tym installed a window made of Blue john (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lordlucan_7th_earl/5947859154/) into the Vernon park Museum in Stockport, when he was lured to become the curator of it and had to leave Castleton.


John Tym left his post at the Castleton Museum which was in the building that now houses the Carlton Emporium right next to "the stones" near the main car park to Peak cavern. The blue john window was previously housed in the upstairs window (I believe).


How close?


So, all well and good, but what's it got to do with Eldon Hole I hear you cry...


In a book called Derbyshire Cavemen (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=a0eIAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT71&lpg=PT71&dq=%22john+tym%22+speedwell&source=bl&ots=3NjEpXENrg&sig=qA1_j9B7UX_FrjVzdkhTuhzThdQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WDBvVbS7BKPP7QamiINo&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=%22john%20tym%22%20speedwell&f=false) which you can view online a man called Rooke Pennington and John Tym (leesee of Speedwell caverns) are placed together Excavating Windy Knoll, as it contained Animal bones. This formed part of a book on the "barrows and bone caves of Derbyshire". Which also contains an account of a descent into Elden Hole. http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1151712523/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1151712523/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item)


This descent seems to be incorrectly dated on the peak district information website as 1783, because Pennington wrote the above book in 1877 which is later (or so it would seem...).
http://www.peakdistrictinformation.com/visits/eldonhole.php (http://www.peakdistrictinformation.com/visits/eldonhole.php)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: braveduck on June 04, 2015, 09:08:27 pm
Eight new digging buckets should be heading to the dig tomorrow .
Transport by B.T.  :)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on June 05, 2015, 01:43:00 am
Many thanks braveduck for the buckets. They will certainly get a lot of use.

We had another excellent trip this evening. Mark Richardson, TomTom, Luke and me down the hole and Dan Hibberts providing surface support. He took his truck up to the hole with a 7' scaffold tube, grinder and drill and 60 x 1.8m boards, oh and Mark R and me, TomTom and Luke walked up and arrived at the same time as us. Dan did an excellent job of lowering everything down the shaft for us.

The boards were bundled in 4's and Dan sent 3 bundles down at a time. Apart from a slight mishap when the bundles ended up separating and straddling a re-belay loop we were soon at the dig face and wasted no time in getting the next set of 20 x boards slotted into the last ring and tapped into position. After clearing out the bottom of the shaft a bit more Mark R. capped the large boulder in the floor and used the hauling net we used down Rowter Hole to great effect in pulling out the debris. This is a brilliant tool and should be in every diggers arsenal of equipment.

We installed the next ring and brought the shaft back into plumb (it had wavered slightly) and tapped the boards into position ready for the Saturday shift.

10am on Saturday if anyone would like to join us.

We will be lowering more tubes down and could do with a few extra hands to pull out all the scrap metal and other junk that has been abandoned down there over the many years of digging attempts. We have Dan's truck to drive it all away from the entrance and weigh it in.

At about 5.5m we have hit a mix of clay and gravel in one side of the shaft and more sizeable boulders. We resorted to shovelling the gravel. The size we have made the shaft makes shovelling easy. Still noticing a slight draught as rocks are shifted from the bottom of the shaft.

Looking forward to Saturday.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: graham on June 05, 2015, 07:58:39 am

... to pull out all the scrap metal and other junk that has been abandoned down there over the many years of digging attempts.


<applause>  :clap2: :clap2:

I am so impressed by the effort and thought that is going into this dig.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 05, 2015, 08:42:33 am
It was a good trip,

Please could we not have all 8 buckets down the dig? The three we currently have are fine for now, lets replace them when we need them.
(We may want another 2 or 3 of them taking down for when we start sorting out that entrance slope??)

Braveduck- they are the best digging buckets I have ever used.. by miles! Thank you.

Cheers
M
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Goydenman on June 05, 2015, 11:11:28 am

... to pull out all the scrap metal and other junk that has been abandoned down there over the many years of digging attempts.


<applause>  :clap2: :clap2:

I am so impressed by the effort and thought that is going into this dig.

I agree - excellent work team  :bow:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on June 05, 2015, 12:25:23 pm
Took the compact camera down last night and it's not quite as easy without external flashes!

(http://i.imgur.com/MJlCZKI.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/nk2kzTw.jpg)

Getting deeper. 
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on June 05, 2015, 02:11:37 pm
and the famous hat  :smartass:

(http://i.imgur.com/JVUauk7.jpg)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Caver Keith on June 05, 2015, 10:30:50 pm
I've just found some old VHS video that I took at Eldon Hole on 14th May 2000. It was a Dudley Caving Club trip but when we arrived we witnessed a shift change of digging teams, so the late 90s dig was still active in 2000. The video is 18 minutes long. I will try to edit it down to something watchable over the next few days and post it here if anyone is interested. It might jog a few memories from those who were digging at this time.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: chunky on June 05, 2015, 11:14:42 pm
 :clap2: Fantastic effort, look forward to the round up at hidden earth at this rate!

Link me the video when you get a chance Keith, would be interested to flick through.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: bograt on June 06, 2015, 12:18:20 am
Just to add to the history of Eldon, I recall that in the past two decades it was bought to the attention of DCA that the access from the entrance shaft to the main chamber might be lost, I was 'volunteered' by the organisation to do a feasibility study as to the possible remedies to the problem. 

 During recent domestic upheavals I have come across one of my personal files titled 'Eldon', not looked into it yet but it could be of interest to anyone wanting to compile a historic record. As I remember, the ultimate decision of DCA was that the finances required would be better spent on other projects to the benefit of members.

I am totally in agreement with other members of this forum --- Brilliant project, Brilliantly Organised   :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 06, 2015, 08:58:02 am
Bograt, it would be really interesting to see your information, if it's a digital file perhaps you could PM me to sort out a transfer?
We are hoping that the DCA will support an effort to permanently sort out the collapsing entrance over the coming weeks but have yet to formally make our proposals.
 
M
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: tamarmole on June 06, 2015, 10:03:02 am
Cracking effort.  Inspirational stuff.

Having close timbered a couple of mine digs I shudder to think what this dig is costing in timber.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: bograt on June 06, 2015, 04:19:48 pm
Bograt, it would be really interesting to see your information, if it's a digital file perhaps you could PM me to sort out a transfer?
We are hoping that the DCA will support an effort to permanently sort out the collapsing entrance over the coming weeks but have yet to formally make our proposals.
 
M

Hi MarkR, I have tried to locate the digital content but no success, it was some time and a few PC upgrades ago; not to worry, give this old bloke some time and I can scan the hard copy into a file package to PDF to you, although I don't know whether it will be of any value nowadays - as I recall, it involved a few lengths of resin sewer liners made by a company based on the site of the old Stanton Iron Works at Ilkeston, I don't know if they are still there! (I had a very enjoyable day when I went to meet them down there - but that's a whole different story  ;)).
 
If you can get a proposal to the DCA meeting on the 20'th I'm sure it will be given serious consideration, if you want me to compile the historic file, PM me your personal e-mail address and I will try to sort it out -- just give me time.

BTW-- While we're on the subject, PEGASSUS - is there a way to allow attachments to PM's via UKC ??.

P.S. The place at Stanton was suggested by 'Mad' Ben Bentham, that will give you some idea of how long ago it was  :o
 
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: amozzer on June 06, 2015, 04:53:07 pm
There is a good photo of the Swarthy and Hirsute members of the Kyndwr club gathered at Eldon hole
in 1900 as they prepare to descend by Bosuns chair, Photo also shows the chair and the wall around the top,wall seems to be in good sate of repair at this time as seems to be a complete uniform height with copping stones in place.
The photo is on page 47 of the book Derbyshire cavemen by Stephen Cliffe, Published 2010.
Good luck with the dig this weekend  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: AR on June 06, 2015, 09:05:59 pm
as I recall, it involved a few lengths of resin sewer liners made by a company based on the site of the old Stanton Iron Works at Ilkeston, I don't know if they are still there! (I had a very enjoyable day when I went to meet them down there - but that's a whole different story  ;)).
 

I've a recollection of seeing a load of resin pipes in a yard next to the A6 in the Whatstandwell area, wonder whose they are and whether they'd part with any? Will have to try and see if they're still there next time I'm passing. Otherwise, how many metres of 800mm twinwall would it need? Maybe a "sponsor 25cm of pipe" appeal would get enough together....
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on June 07, 2015, 04:50:26 pm
Paz Vale, Bob Toogood, Sam Pemberton, Dan Hibberts and me were down again yesterday (06/06/15). We installed another ring, added another 1m of depth to the shaft and installed the next set of boards. The current shaft is now just over 7m deep. Most of the clay and gravel that we first hit on Thursday has now been dug out (there was a lot of it) and we seem to be back into boulders again, lets hope it stays that way.

We were expecting a cast of 1000's to come up and give us a hand pulling out all the scrap metal and other junk but unfortunately it wasn't to be and by the time we had finished in the dig we didn't really have enough time, or energy, to pull it all out. This will now be a job for another weekend. It will probably need a tensioned line rigging across the shaft and positioning a pulley so junk can be pulled out clear of the sides and then moved horizontally to the East side ready for being loaded into a truck. This is how rescues used to be conducted, maybe still is? We had a bit of an epic pulling out a couple of tackle bags when they got snagged on some of the fixed rigging. Paz was soon on hand from below to free them and we were all soon after sat with a pint in the Devonshire having had a very successful day.   

We had a look at the entrance into the Main Chamber with a view to installing a shaft to stabilise it. This would be a relatively easy job but not a cheep one. Our current triangular shaft which has 2 x boarded sides, 10 boards to a side costs around £75.00 / m. It would probably be best to install a rectangular shaft similar to the top section of the dig and would probably cost around £100.00 / m. We were thinking more along the lines of making it A LOT BIGGER than it currently is. Whilst an 800mm plastic pipe might keep a route into the Main Chamber open, I'm not sure a pipe alone would actually stabilise the area against further slippage. Dave Cowley and his Tuesday night team did an excellent job of clearing the route a few weeks ago but with the amount of traffic the cave is now seeing I expect to see some further movement of the boulders and other junk that is embedded in the route. Since it was cleared you now often have to wriggle through with a muddy stream pouring down the back of your over-suit!! If we were to dig this out there would be a lot more metal and junk retrieved so it may be best to make a start on this before having to drag large pieces of metal and timber from the Main Chamber that are bigger than the hole they now have to fit through.

The recommendation by Bograt to get the stabilisation work back on the DCA agenda for the meeting on the 20th is a good one. I'm sure the large numbers of DCA affiliated cavers participating in the digging project will agree the stabilisation of the entrance is worthy of financial support should the DCA have sufficient reserves to cover the materials element of the work. We will certainly be more than happy to do the work and could start almost immediately.

The farmer was a bit annoyed on Thursday at the speed some people had been driving up Eldon Lane and in front of their farmhouse. She asked us all to slow down. They have some young kids who are not used to the amount of traffic passing by and they may run out in front of you!! I apologised profusely on behalf of everyone and told her that we would all drive very slowly in the future.

I popped into the farm to apologise again yesterday, this time with a bottle of single malt. It went down very well and good relations are now fully restored with them letting us take a truck load of 20 x 6' scaffold tubes and 2 bags of fittings all the way to the side of the East route down Eldon Hole. Lets all try and help maintain the good relations we currently have and drive very slowly up the lane. If there's a cloud of dust behind you, you're driving too fast!!

When parking beside the left wall at the top of the lane, please don't block tractor access to the fork mounted tools that are stored in front of the wall. These tools may look unused but I helped the farmers son attach one to his tractor only last week. Please also ensure that gates aren't blocked and remember the large galvanised gate swings open a long way as Mark R discovered the other week when he found the gate resting against his van!! 

I'm working away for the next 10 days so I'll leave it to the rest of the team members to keep you all up to date on their trips.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Dan on June 07, 2015, 08:06:42 pm
I will be at the DCA meeting on the 20th. I'm planning to put the case forward to the DCA to see if we can get them to fund the project.

 :read:

Dan
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Pete K on June 07, 2015, 08:46:17 pm
Dan, I won't be at the meeting but I'd happily read through something ahead and submit my opinion to the meeting via email. I'd like to see this done, and done well. Still need to get some new ground anchors concreted in there too. Email me through the DCA website if you like or via UKC.
Pete Knight
DCA Projects
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Pete K on June 07, 2015, 09:16:45 pm
Just spoken to Wayne and the Marks have an email from DCA now asking for a proposal in advance of the meeting.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on June 08, 2015, 12:27:03 am
The Marks are on the case and a full and detailed proposal will be delivered by Dan at the DCA meeting on the 20th. Dan will have all the information to answer any questions the meeting may have on both the conservation and main digging projects.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Goydenman on June 08, 2015, 08:51:00 am
Such an important hole and with much history I hope you guys get the backing from the DCA.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: graham on June 08, 2015, 01:28:39 pm
To give you an idea of the magnitude of this dig, below is a screen cap showing the 1770 sketch of the place, from the Phil Trans link posted earlier, compared with Rob & Katie's centreline survey, also posted earlier:

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22722944/Eldon_comparison.JPG)

Keep digging lads.  :bow:  :beer2: :bow: :beer2: :bow:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: bograt on June 08, 2015, 02:46:50 pm
" It will probably need a tensioned line rigging across the shaft and positioning a pulley so junk can be pulled out clear of the sides and then moved horizontally to the East side ready for being loaded into a truck. "

This is certainly how the winch meets used to operate;

A tensioned Tirfor cable across the hole with a double pulley arrangement, one pulley rolling along the tensioned wire, another beneath it carrying the winch line, another line to drag the whole setup along and locate it at a suitable position over the drop.
Good, solid ground anchors are essential and the tensioned cable needs lifting on a bipod/tripod system to clear the ground at the edge of the hole so the surface crew can work safely away from the lip.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: T pot 2 on June 09, 2015, 08:42:30 am
Mark wright and team
If you require any surface steelwork i.e tripods, bipods, steel stakes etc give me a drawing of your requirments and i'll see what i can do.

T
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: biffa on June 09, 2015, 04:14:39 pm
" It will probably need a tensioned line rigging across the shaft and positioning a pulley so junk can be pulled out clear of the sides and then moved horizontally to the East side ready for being loaded into a truck. "

This is certainly how the winch meets used to operate;

A tensioned Tirfor cable across the hole with a double pulley arrangement, one pulley rolling along the tensioned wire, another beneath it carrying the winch line, another line to drag the whole setup along and locate it at a suitable position over the drop.
Good, solid ground anchors are essential and the tensioned cable needs lifting on a bipod/tripod system to clear the ground at the edge of the hole so the surface crew can work safely away from the lip.

Last time DCRO practised at Eldon our rig was to go down the East (I think) route and use our tripod to keep the haul ropes off of the floor.  We rigged a releasable deviation from the opposite side's belays (probably West but I could have them mixed up).  We were able to position the stretcher clear of the walls to the bottom if I recall correctly - but we did use a jockey so they might have been guiding the stretcher.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: owd git on June 10, 2015, 07:53:02 am
I left a tatty note on vehicle sat'. ican now confirm  ; I have a bike frame, crank , 16 gears,stripped rear hub. and am making a cable spool to haul . if equired.    Discuss!.
O.G. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Dave C on June 10, 2015, 01:27:59 pm
Another excellent shift put in last night, Dave Cowley, Dan Hibberts, Jon Pemberton, and Sam Pemberton (all EPC) present. 115 buckets were hauled out gaining a further metre of depth. It's time for another scaffold ring on the next trip.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on June 10, 2015, 04:32:21 pm
Good to hear you had such a good trip last night Dave and also good to see you making your first post on ukCaving. Just Sam and Jon to make the coming Tuesday night reports.

Owd Git, I got your message and thanks for the offer, it was my truck you left the message on. As you will see from Dave Cowley's report the manual hauling is pretty quick in the main dig. We have been pulling out buckets at a rate of 20 seconds per bucket. With 115 buckets last night Dave's team were probably managing a rate of 15 seconds per bucket. There is no faffing time, it is literally 1 bucket out of the dig every 15 - 20 seconds. It will obviously get slower the deeper we get but I'm not sure a bicycle winch would come close to this. We are using a thick braided rope running over a scaffolders pulley which works well for manual hauling. We tried a standard low stretch rope at first but it is too difficult to hold with muddy hands and you usually waste the first haul just getting the stretch out!

We would probably end up using a standard low stretch rope for hauling all the junk out of Eldon Hole and so the bicycle winch may be better for that but I doubt it. We are hopeful there will be sufficient manpower on the day we do that to just haul by hand through some sort of locking mechanism. I've never used a bicycle winch so I may be missing something as to their efficiency. 

Mark   
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 11, 2015, 11:40:54 pm
11/06/15

TomTom,  Mark R

Just the two of us tonight, Henry Rockliff dropped off a pipe cutter as we were getting changed but had to leave so we walked up with relatively little to carry. We took two poles each from the surface and descended into the darkness.
First job was to get a ring in, Tom wanted to get some photos of this happening and managed to get some shots whilst we were working. Unfortunately most of the floor is back into sticky mud again, it's frustrating that just behind the boards is clean rock!
The ring went in but we followed the ring above and noticed that the bottom of the shaft is drifting off square, the all important double scaff clip won't be working too efficiently. The next ring will need the end of the pole moving 5 or 6 inches across to square things up again. We were also wondering about closing the shaft floor section down and having 3 sides to it....?
Before I forget we need a new 12mm drill bit, the last one was used as a pin somewhere and we could only find a 10mm and 14mm bit there.
Henry's big chopper was superb. It cuts through scaffold tube (clamped to the handrail) quickly and with pinpoint accuracy, a great tool and loads better than a hacksaw.
The only problem of the evening was having to constantly move bloody buckets out of the way. For some reason we now have 13 buckets down there, madness!!!! We will remove 8 of them at the weekend I think.

Tom took some photos of the shitty squeeze on the way out and we rushed to the pub only to find it closed- disaster!

Mark R
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: nickwilliams on June 11, 2015, 11:52:25 pm
Mark,

If you want/need a hydraulic ram to straighten up the scaffold, let me know.

Nick.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on June 12, 2015, 12:32:55 am
Getting ever deeper, not a fan of mud though.

Will have a proper sort through the photos when there's more tea available  :thumbsup:

(http://i.imgur.com/Oq43LsI.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/dPdzWku.jpg)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Roger W on June 12, 2015, 10:48:36 am
Looking good - looking very good!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on June 12, 2015, 04:28:28 pm
Just a few snaps of the awkward entrance crawl, not the actual dig site. I believe the DCA are to look into a proper long term fix to the only squalid part of the whole cave. I'll put the full resolution pics somewhere if they're needed for the DCA meeting on the 20th.

Pictures plot a vague path from dig site to entrance shaft. Apologies for the picture bombardment!

(http://i.imgur.com/MaCUO8q.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/FKMSTq2.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/AS65t7m.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/ROg4DbJ.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/srSU7hH.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/9rfMA5D.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/bT9jzuS.jpg)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Caver Keith on June 13, 2015, 10:03:42 pm
I've just unearthed this video which was taken during a Dudley Caving Club trip on 14th May 2000 when the shaft in the main chamber was being dug. The video shows the early morning shift exiting and the lunchtime shift descending. Does anyone recognise any of the diggers?

http://youtu.be/28MTCerJY2I (http://youtu.be/28MTCerJY2I)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: tony from suffolk on June 14, 2015, 09:16:43 am
Forgive me, I've not been down Eldon since 1968 & I'm a bit confused about exactly where you folks are digging. I'd be grateful for a short explanation.

I'm following the topic with great interest; given your determination I reckon you'll find something big!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: seamoose on June 14, 2015, 11:10:12 pm
Does anyone recognise any of the diggers?

Yes, I recognise myself  ;D
Descending East Wall at about 1 minute 25 secs in.
The guy before me is Dave Jones.

According to my caving diary for 14th May 2000 I was digging with DJ and Mike Salt...

Can't remember being filmed but thanks for posting!

Jase
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on June 14, 2015, 11:13:21 pm
Forgive me, I've not been down Eldon since 1968 & I'm a bit confused about exactly where you folks are digging. I'd be grateful for a short explanation.

I'm following the topic with great interest; given your determination I reckon you'll find something big!


About here:

(http://i.imgur.com/Qw8vD0y.png)

Drop down the main shaft and then go through the messy crawl into the main chamber. As you go in it's on the right hand wall by a little rift that's on Lloyds survey.

If that makes any sense?


By 'Q' on Lloyd's

(http://i.imgur.com/pkLw6zp.png)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: tony from suffolk on June 15, 2015, 10:14:54 am
Many thanks TomTom, I get it now.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 15, 2015, 08:55:43 pm
Sunday's trip... http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=356:14-of-a-tonne-of-fun&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58 (http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=356:14-of-a-tonne-of-fun&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58)

Dan, can you take the car up on Tuesday to get rid of some or all of that rubbish? :)

M
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 17, 2015, 01:03:22 pm
Any news from last night EPC?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on June 17, 2015, 08:05:06 pm
We probably should have mentioned that the west route was partially de-rigged for the hauling, but with the knots and mallions still in place I'm sure it was hardly the greatest of issues (assuming there was traffic down there yesterday).
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 17, 2015, 08:38:12 pm
We may never know Tom Tom..!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Rob on June 18, 2015, 08:31:07 am
Don't worry, not all dead. The digging trip was aborted due to low numbers, think they went for an explore in Bagshaw. Dig should be how you left it on Sunday....
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Paz Vale on June 21, 2015, 01:29:18 pm
Bob Toogood, Pete O'Neill and myself were down for about 5 hours yesterday.  Replaced the rope on the bottom section of the north route on the entrance but didn't rerig the East route as none of us went down that way.  Pulled about 50 buckets out of the dig, the hauling rope needs a good clean as the mud is getting ingrained making it difficult to hold on to whilst hauling.  We have taken down a 25m length of 1 1/4" hawser to use as a haul rope, we just need to sort out a couple of pulleys to set up a 2 to 1 system which should make it easier for small teams to haul full buckets/big rocks out.  Also we could do with 2 or 3 of the buckets that were taken out back down there as the digger kept having to wait for buckets as they were being emptied.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 21, 2015, 10:04:25 pm
If there aren't any on the surface with the pile of rubbish (?) I'll take one or two back down on Thursday. Sounds like the tippers weren't working hard enough to me! ;)
50 buckets deeper is good. Nearly ready for another ring?
Dan- have you managed to clear that rubbish yet? Also that conveyor matting may be handy soon.

M
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 21, 2015, 10:45:44 pm
Actually, if the slow bit is hauling and tipping, adding more buckets won't speed up the digging. The digger will end up surrounded by buckets waiting to be emptied. A team can only ever haul and tip one bucket at a time so three should be the most you would ever need. I think there are 4 down there. As a bucket is unloaded At the top the next one is being filled at the bottom and the recently emptied one is sent down whilst the tipper empties.
If hauling is hard for a small team, until we get the 2:1 in it makes sense for the digger to help haul from the bottom.
One thing that may speed up the tipping, or at least make it easier is perhaps a horizontal tensioned line at head height across the chamber. Use it like a monorail for heavy buckets, it could even be installed so buckets transport themselves down an incline from the top of the haul rope to the tip point.
I think we are reaching a depth where there will always be someone in a team waiting and always some one holding things up, even if just slightly it's inevitable.

Sorry, I just don't think we need 7 buckets!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: braveduck on June 21, 2015, 10:55:34 pm
Please don't blame me I only make them  :(
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Bottlebank on June 22, 2015, 10:22:19 am
Actually, if the slow bit is hauling and tipping, adding more buckets won't speed up the digging. The digger will end up surrounded by buckets waiting to be emptied. A team can only ever haul and tip one bucket at a time so three should be the most you would ever need. I think there are 4 down there. As a bucket is unloaded At the top the next one is being filled at the bottom and the recently emptied one is sent down whilst the tipper empties.
If hauling is hard for a small team, until we get the 2:1 in it makes sense for the digger to help haul from the bottom.
One thing that may speed up the tipping, or at least make it easier is perhaps a horizontal tensioned line at head height across the chamber. Use it like a monorail for heavy buckets, it could even be installed so buckets transport themselves down an incline from the top of the haul rope to the tip point.
I think we are reaching a depth where there will always be someone in a team waiting and always some one holding things up, even if just slightly it's inevitable.

Sorry, I just don't think we need 7 buckets!

No idea how this dig works but quite often when I'm at the sharp end if there's space it's good to have spare buckets, you can quickly fill the lot and then get a rest for a minute or two.

Not sure you lot allow resting though?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 22, 2015, 12:55:52 pm
"No idea how this dig works but quite often when I'm at the sharp end if there's space it's good to have spare buckets, you can quickly fill the lot and then get a rest for a minute or two.

Not sure you lot allow resting though?"

If the problem is the digger waiting for buckets then that's rest enough, surely!
We do have designated tea breaks but I'm thinking of installing a clocking in/ out machine. We're not there to have fun after all.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Bottlebank on June 22, 2015, 01:28:41 pm
"No idea how this dig works but quite often when I'm at the sharp end if there's space it's good to have spare buckets, you can quickly fill the lot and then get a rest for a minute or two.

Not sure you lot allow resting though?"

If the problem is the digger waiting for buckets then that's rest enough, surely!
We do have designated tea breaks but I'm thinking of installing a clocking in/ out machine. We're not there to have fun after all.

Trouble isn't when you're waiting for buckets, it's when there's just enough time to loosen some crap up before the bucket arrives.

Quite right on the last bit. If it was fun everyone would be doing it.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on June 22, 2015, 03:19:11 pm
If you want a rest as a digger just overfill a bucket. This may cause verbal abuse though, and result in rocks falling on your head.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 22, 2015, 03:32:01 pm
Tom, it sounds like Bottlebank might be interested enough to come and lend a hand one day soon- what do you think?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on June 22, 2015, 05:16:57 pm
As long as we're still using the policy of not letting people out till they've shifted two tones.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Paz Vale on June 22, 2015, 06:56:33 pm
We're looking to shift the rubbish on Saturday unless Dan can get up there tomorrow night.  Depends on how wet the top field is with rain forecast for tonight.

We've started tipping the spoil in the old dig at the base of the slope next to the brewing up kit.  The floor here was about 4 or 5 feet higher here  when we started digging there last year.  It needs raising back to that level to support that side of the slope and the big block on the wall which has a crack round the back.

The plan is to build a wall  on the terrace we've created along the base of the slope to support it and possibly another sloped terrace and wall above this.  This should stop the slope below the entrance arch moving but I don't think we need to start this until we begin clearing the entrance.

As to the buckets, it's just handy having some spare.  On Saturday there was only me hauling and tipping and a couple extra would have let me line them up ready to empty when the others were resting or breaking up the mud ready for another filling session.  A couple of weeks ago we had all the buckets on the go with two of us at the bottom digging and filling 2 or 3 buckets at a time and 3 hauling and tipping.  There's plenty of space to stash those that aren't being used on any particular trip.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Dave C on June 24, 2015, 09:37:40 am
Due to a delayed start Jon Pemberton and myself had a short session at the dig last night and removed a further 30 buckets.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on June 26, 2015, 12:27:28 pm
Three of us down Eldon last night, Luke should be writing the report over the weekend. Took a few snaps with the compact, it's coming along nicely, enough change down there to earn some proper pics sometime soon  :thumbsup:



(http://i.imgur.com/qWYs4GO.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/o5jl1Ix.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/PprccEC.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/3nbPm8z.jpg)

Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 26, 2015, 01:02:39 pm
If any of the Eldon are down tomorrow, take some capping kit- it may be of use for some biggish boulders in the floor. Possible that the rock net will do them though.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 26, 2015, 01:12:14 pm
Luke's report..

25/06/15
Medic, Tom Tom, Mark R
 
My second visit to Eldon presented me with a great deal of downwards progress and the unpleasant crawl into the main chamber looked a lot less unpleasant. The rate with which our joint venture is making headway is truly impressive.
Tom and I arrived before Mark and after changing into my caving shorts we headed unladen over to the hole. Tom took some dynamic action shots of my harrowing descent, and at the bottom I befriended two sad-looking fledgling jackdaws who had obviously found themselves at the bottom of the shaft and exhausted themselves in an attempt to escape.
We left them to it for the time being and I scrambled down to the dig face and set about filling buckets. The walls consisted of thick mud and the odd pebble so the work was slow, but Tom hauled valiantly for about 40 minutes or so until Mark turned up. With the three of us we managed another hour or so until I called the boss down for his opinion on my ring. We capped a large boulder, and after hauling the pieces out decided it was time for a rest. We broke for tea and discussed whether or not to rescue the jackdaws, or to euthanise one, or both of them.
We came to the conclusion that if they were injured then none of us could be bothered taking them to the RSPCA, and that the kindest thing to do would be to mercifully smash their brains out with a sledgehammer. If only one was injured then the other would no doubt die of grief, and so we agreed to only euthanise the healthy one, and leave the injured one to die of natural causes…
Anyway after that we returned to the dig, and Tom and Mark set about installing a new ring, enclosing the dig in order protect it from the back slope. It will certainly limit digging space, but there’s still plenty of room to manoeuvre, and focus our efforts on the drafty areas. Boards in and hammered into position, at about 2200 we decided it was time to move on to international rescue.
Our friends hadn’t moved and looked as though they were feeling very sorry for themselves. We prepped a tackle sack and encouraged them to hop in. We were met with some resistance but they eventually complied. My reasoning being that if it is possible to put an animal in a bag, then it probably did need some form of assistance. Tom headed up first with his broken toe, and Mark and I waited quietly with my two new friends losing their shit and pecking my back through the sack. A little while later all five of us were stood at the top of the cave, and wandered down back towards the cars, stopping at a wooded area to release our captives. For my first procedure as a qualified physician I performed a gooch-otomy on myself with a barbed wire fence. Mark kindly released the tattered remains of my undercarriage from the rusty wire and I set about freeing the jackdaws. By this point they had largely gotten their shit together and after untangling them from the draw-cord they hopped off into the woods. I don’t hold out much hope that they will live long and happy lives, but at least we prevented Eldon from gaining another couple of rotten corpses, and we may have provided an easy meal for the foxes of Peak Forest, but who knows, maybe they’ll survive.
Good deed for the day successfully complete, and another step in the right direction for the dig, we said our goodbyes and parted ways.
Onwards and downwards,
Medic xx

Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Roger W on June 26, 2015, 04:43:59 pm
Luke's report..

25/06/15
Medic, Tom Tom, Mark R
 
 We broke for tea and discussed whether or not to rescue the jackdaws, or to euthanise one, or both of them.
We came to the conclusion that if they were injured then none of us could be bothered taking them to the RSPCA, and that the kindest thing to do would be to mercifully smash their brains out with a sledgehammer.

When I read that, I was thinking "Good job you weren't on hand on Mendip when that rock fell on the O.R...!"

Glad to hear you got the little darlings out OK.

Good also to hear how well the digging is going.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Paz Vale on June 26, 2015, 07:54:20 pm
Doesn't look like there will be an Eldon team down this weekend as most of the diggers are up in the Dales and Dans in France, so the next trip will probably be Tuesday.  Dan says he's going to shift the rubbish in the week.  Probably be a large turnout next weekend.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: bograt on June 26, 2015, 09:53:38 pm
Just remember - cash the scrap in, metal is not doing bad at the moment :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 28, 2015, 08:19:45 pm
Had a good trip today, got another metre through thick sticky gooey crap but found some more big boulders on the way- lots and lots of capping required to make progress. At depth for another ring but the back mud wall still needs digging out to make space- a job for Tuesday. Had a close call with the bucket catching on a ring and spilling some rock- that conveyor matting would be really handy now. Also the bosuns chair for knocking boards down.
Interestingly we found a bird skeleton at -8m (current depth from floor of main chamber) so the material is still 'recent' and not old fill as I was worrying the thick clay layer may have indicated.
Used about 60 caps up and did a quick round just before we left so there is some rock to haul out on Tuesday as well as chopping the mud wall back.
M
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on June 28, 2015, 10:36:11 pm
Mark, i've been having a think about using non explosive expanding mortor on another project, might be worth a shout. I've never head of anyone using it. But the websites look good!

I wouldn't know where to buy it though...

http://www.demolitiontechnologies.com/hole-patterns-selective-demolition/splitting-large-rock (http://www.demolitiontechnologies.com/hole-patterns-selective-demolition/splitting-large-rock)

I'd guess you would have to reduce down the hole diameter from 32mm!

I'm mostly thinking of that ridiculously huge rock between the current dig face and the continuation of the old dig
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: mmilner on June 29, 2015, 01:13:44 am
There's a few (Dexpan,etc.), but https://www.dynacem.pl/uk/non-explosive-cracking-agent-dynacem-buy-online.html (https://www.dynacem.pl/uk/non-explosive-cracking-agent-dynacem-buy-online.html) is worth trying, they're  based in Europe. Hole size is important.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 29, 2015, 07:20:10 am
We use it at work occasionally- if we were allowed to use capping commercially and could guarantee the safety we would probably use that instead- much faster and more precise.

I think that Boulder is staying for now.
M
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: SamT on June 29, 2015, 07:28:48 am
I'm sure we can come up with something to deal with the boulder.  😊
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 29, 2015, 11:52:58 am
Sure we can! :) but it can stay for now!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on June 29, 2015, 04:13:00 pm
aquamole jim was using some Dexpan (or Bustar, I can't remember) in Doom's with some success, but he said it's very expensive for the results, and doesn't really scale down so well. I wanted to try it in a nearby choke that probably wouldn't survive harsher methods - or possibly the operator wouldn't survive if it worked! - but he told me that shrinking holes down to say 14mm doesn't really work. Drilling 32mm holes with a cordless would be fun. There is the slimmest possibility of rigging a corded drill through to it, but even so, many of the holes would be horizontal or worse, so the cement would just run out.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: graham on June 29, 2015, 04:37:40 pm
(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk116/ray2047/star-drill.jpg)

Not sure they do 'em in 32 mm.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: SamT on June 29, 2015, 06:44:44 pm
Lets not get too off topic....

PWHole - call round some time, sounds like we need to educate you in modern techniques.

Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on June 29, 2015, 08:50:52 pm
I'm happy to. Though I should probably show you the choke too sometime and see what you think.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: T pot 2 on June 30, 2015, 10:26:33 am
Mark
Did you get the conveyor belt that you required ? if not let me know what you want and I'll supply it. If anyone else requires some please let me know.

T
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 30, 2015, 12:21:15 pm
Not yet,

We need something around 1m wide, thin and lightweight as possible and 10m long (but it could come in smaller sections if needed). Do you have anything like that?


Its just to stop the buckets snagging on the rings as its hauled up. As an aside, if we ever get through all 12 buckets and need some more, the model with the half enclosed top snag less than those that we currently have.

M
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: T pot 2 on June 30, 2015, 02:49:16 pm
Mark
The lightest that I have is 12x650mm and yes It can be sort of cut to length if we renew a belt on a conveyor 70mtrs long. But we have loads of odd lengths that you could choose from. We also have 20x1000mm but this is heavy stuff and I don't think it will be suitable for your requirements.
Come and have a look and take what you want

T
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: braveduck on June 30, 2015, 11:15:03 pm
If you require any 3B model buckets ,just let Bob Togood know and we will deliver.
I have plenty in stock !
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Dave C on July 01, 2015, 09:04:03 am
Had an excellent trip last night. The rubbish that had previously been hauled out was loaded into Dan's truck, and removed. Jon Pemberton and Dave Cowley (both EPC) descended the hole to continue the dig. Upon arriving at the base of the shaft we were greeted by a jackdaw! They obviously have like it here, and keen to see the progress. Once at the dig, the capped rock, clay from the back wall, and more rock from the floor was hauled out, about 50 buckets in all. Happily the base is easy digging in rock again. We said our goodbyes to the jackdaw, and headed out. The next team in will need some capping to get the boards down the back wall.

Dave
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on July 02, 2015, 05:32:28 pm
Is there an Eldon trip this weekend? Got someone form SUSS wanting to go and can make it if it's Sunday?

M
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on July 03, 2015, 12:53:54 pm
For anyone going down tomorrow-
Last night wasn't the most productive evening. we capped some rock and pulled a few buckets and netted boulders out but couldn't find the large drill bit to install pins for the next ring. We cut the scaffolding to the right length and left it roughly in the correct places although some additional verticals will need to be installed to hold it level with the ring above.
We did manage to add a bit more to the scaffold ladder and dropped 40 boards off by the carpark wall which need taking down. These haven't been drilled or wired together so a 10mm wood bit and some tie- wire or cord will be needed if you want to abseil with bundles of these boards.

The first job is to drill pins in the wall and get the next ring in then hammer boards down, inserting a fresh set on the back mud wall too. that's a 2 person job only really so don't rush a massive team down there straight off!

The pins are 12mm so we can use either a 12mm or 14mm SDS bit depending on if we want the flexibility to pull them out again if they are in the wrong place, personally id go for 12mm. Don't forget to take one on Saturday, with a drill or there wont be much to do.

Some caps, a drill bit and the appropriate PPE may be useful for the weekend.

Oh- we also installed the 8m length of conveyor matting we dragged out of East Chamber in Oxlow a few weeks ago. It works an absolute treat and prevents the bucket from snagging on the horizontal rings and disgorging its contents on the digger as it is hauled out.

Enjoy.

M
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on July 03, 2015, 05:42:04 pm
Not sure who the person from SUSS is who was looking for a trip down Eldon Hole this weekend but we are going tomorrow (Saturday), meeting at the top of Eldon Lane at 10am.

Anyone who would like to join us is more than welcome.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on July 03, 2015, 05:49:21 pm
The guy from SUSS can't do saturday. And as it happens he's not from suss, but still learning who's digging eldon. :S
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on July 05, 2015, 10:51:10 am
Claire Dunphy, Paz Vale, Dan Hibberts and me were down again yesterday for about 5 hours and managed to get the next ring in place, all the boards knocked down into position and another metre of depth added. The shaft is now 9m deep or 10.3m from the survey station just below where the pulley is rigged. We are now pretty much at the same depth of the original EPC dig.

Whoever goes in next will need to take down some more tubes from the stock at the top of the entrance shaft and take down some more boards which are under the blue tarpaulin beside the wall at the car park. These will need drilling and a lanyard attaching to enable them to be carried down easily. There will certainly be some capping required at the dig face for the next team.

A comprehensive proposal was put forward at the recent DCA meeting and funding for the stabilisation of the entrance was approved and work will start on this soon. It is hoped that a large team will come along to support this important work. A notice will be posted on here giving plenty of notice of the dates this work will be carried out. There will be lots of boards and tubes to be taken up to the entrance and down the entrance shaft. Weather permitting, we should be able to get vehicular access to the entrance to make this task easier. We could also incorporate the replacement of the rigging bollards at the same time?

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: graham on July 05, 2015, 12:35:02 pm

The shaft is now 9m deep or 10.3m from the survey station just below where the pulley is rigged. We are now pretty much at the same depth of the original EPC dig.


And that in two months! I wonder where you guys will have got to by the end of September!  :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :beer2:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Pegasus on July 05, 2015, 05:02:44 pm

The shaft is now 9m deep or 10.3m from the survey station just below where the pulley is rigged. We are now pretty much at the same depth of the original EPC dig.


And that in two months! I wonder where you guys will have got to by the end of September!  :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :beer2:

Australia  ;D
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on July 05, 2015, 09:32:42 pm
I was rather hoping we would be stomping up and down some big streamways and finding out what really causes Main Rising and Whirlpool Rising to alternate their flow!!

Paz has some ideas on what is happening geologically at the depth we are currently at, based on the way the walls are coming in and the types of mud we are going through so the next couple of months weeks should be very interesting.

Mark R, I found the 14mm drill bit at the bottom of the shaft. I put it to one side but when it was time to come out I couldn't find it. It should be easy to find as its not as big as it was anymore at the bottom. I might well have trodden it into the mud and if I did Paz will have trodden it down a bit further as he was the last one in.

I think the bottom of the shaft must have run in a bit since Thursday night as I found a bucket completely buried under the mud when I first got there.

I partially re-rigged the permanent West route but missing out the first re-belay on the opposite wall. When I originally rigged it I got Paz to swing me across the shaft from above. If anyone is going down that route you will need to take an adjustable spanner to nip up the large pear shaped Maillon on the re-belay attached to the usual deviation anchor. Its only hand tight and not fully closed as I didn't have a spanner with me on Saturday and it was a bit stiff.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on July 05, 2015, 11:02:26 pm
The derbyshire dream, one day in the next couple of years ;)

I was rather hoping we would be stomping up and down some big streamways and finding out what really causes Main Rising and Whirlpool Rising to alternate their flow!!

Mark
t
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on July 06, 2015, 12:56:11 am
The derbyshire dream, one day in the next couple of years ;)

I was rather hoping we would be stomping up and down some big streamways and finding out what really causes Main Rising and Whirlpool Rising to alternate their flow!!

Mark
t

I've been saying that for the past 35 years but I have a good feeling about this one. Mind you, I've been saying that for the past 35 years as well.

If you pop down and pull up some buckets we could be there a lot sooner.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: SamT on July 08, 2015, 01:19:56 pm

Tuesday EPC trip - DaveC, JonP, Bog and SamT.

Having been lured over to climbing by light nights and dry weather since my initial trips, it was with an air of excitement that I met the guys at the parking spot. Boards were drilled and threaded and loaded onto shoulders. Keen to make up for the fact that I hadn't been involved much, I loaded up two sets of boards and pelicase and marched off up the hill. This soon became a stumble and I admitted defeat at the gate by the rake, dumping one set of boards there to be collected later.  We soon had all the boards up the hill though and myself, bog and Dave set about lowering them down, whilst Jon went to the bottom to un hook them, which all went pretty smoothly. Scaffold next and the place was soon clanging like a campanologists convention.

Safely down, we carried everything through and I got my first glimpse down the shaft. Hell's teeth as Clive would say, its looking like a long way to the bottom and as I climbed down the greasy makeshift scaff ladder, I made a mental note not to fall off. I had a quick dig, filling about 10 buckets and loosened up a few bigger boulders in the floor which will need capping. Its a while since I've ruckled boulders with a crowbar and I'd forgotten how immensely satisfying it can be.
The loose pear shaped mallion was tightened on the way back up and after a brief dalliance with a farmers blonde on the way back, I was home, satisfied with a great evening.  Poor Weather permitting. I'll be back next Tuesday!

Next team down I'm guessing will need to install the next ring and the boulders in the floor will need capping (or netting up possibly if you have enough hauling power).

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on July 08, 2015, 06:31:47 pm
Nice report, good trip!
Looking forward to tomorrow night.

Any weekend action going on?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on July 10, 2015, 01:12:33 pm
09/07/15
Tom Tom, Mark R

The international jet setter Mr Wright texted at the last minute to say his flight had been delayed and he couldn’t make it. That left just me and Tom Tom.
We met at just before 6:30 and barely dawdled in the evening sunshine. All too soon we found ourselves back at the dig face and hauling rocks out of the floor. Tom hauled at the top and I dug and hauled from the bottom. We were warned that there would be some capping to do.. there was a LOT of capping!
We spent a long time basically mining through solid rock on the back wall to try and create some space for the next ring. I was surprised how hard the walls are cutting in at the bottom and reducing the available floor digging space. It was slightly demoralising frankly to be smashing through rock with cap after cap and standing on a compacted mud and rock floor!
It wasn’t until near the end of the evening trip that I pulled some rock out of the floor near the corner of the dig against the boards that we were confronted with some clean, loose packed rock with a nice gentle draught emanating. The only problem is it’s mostly behind the dig boards and not down in the floor below us. I wish we were a metre further back.
We hauled a lot of rock between us and eventually swore and hammered a two sided ring into the bottom of the shaft. The next team down will need ot insert 10 new boards and hammer home the bottom edge of the last set.
Just a note about boards- try not to hammer them down to the level of a ring before it’s installed, we keep having to hammer and lever boards back up to create space for the rings. Imagine how much space you might need- then double it and dig for another 2 hours!
All in all, hard work and we weren’t out until 11:30 but satisfying getting the ring in and glad there is still some loose packed rock to play with.. even if it’s only a tiny amount!
Mark R
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Bottlebank on July 10, 2015, 02:30:28 pm
Quote
The only problem is it’s mostly behind the dig boards and not down in the floor below us.

That seems to be the story of my life at the moment!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Paz Vale on July 11, 2015, 08:48:55 pm
Just Me and Sam Pemberton today.

Fixed new boards in place and pulled out about 40 buckets.  The wall on the east side of the rift is beginning to step in but the west side seems to be continuing vertically.  I suspect that there may be a ledge under the boulders on the east side which would explain why the mud is so saturated on that side of the dig with water percolating through the boulders and collecting on the ledge.  Also the mud on that side is different than that in the rift itself as it contains organic debris and it contains horizons which are very similar to a glay soil.  This may indicate that there is a significant accumulation of organic matter at this level on the east side of the choke either by downward percolation or by build up on an earlier floor of the chamber.  Additionally, last weekend we removed a peice of old stal which had grown on one of the 'steps' on the  east side of the rift and is probably of a similar age to the stal in the main chamber.  This may mean that we are at or approaching the original base of the chamber although we probably still have quite a lot of stone to pull out.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on July 11, 2015, 11:12:43 pm
On an unrelated note- have any diggers lost a plastic handled locking knife on a loop of accessory cord at the caroark? If so- I have it.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: SamT on July 12, 2015, 09:02:24 pm
might be mine.. black knife..black cord with a coloured fleck?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on July 12, 2015, 09:18:44 pm
Yep!ill take it down and leave it by the dig- means you will have to go digging to get it back :)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: SamT on July 12, 2015, 09:41:48 pm

 :lol:  :clap2:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Paul Dyson on July 13, 2015, 08:16:39 pm
 :clap2: very good effort to all involved with the dig
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Iris in the Dark on July 14, 2015, 06:43:44 pm
Hello, Please keep up the posts on this excellent  thread, I am really enjoying it.
I am interested in Mark R's post 239 and Paz Vale's 241. Both suggest that the way on might not be vertically down. How can you dog-leg sideways with your shuttering system. Will you need metal piles for a roof?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on July 15, 2015, 12:24:54 pm
That is an excellent question. It may be that its easier and more viable long term to sink a parallel shaft behind the boards to shuffle the whole thing across if we can be sure its beneficial. If its just a short dogleg I'm sure we can manage it as long as we have solid floor and/ or walls to key a very reinforced structure into. Cross that bridge when we come to it as they say.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Paz Vale on July 15, 2015, 03:39:30 pm
As long as we've still got 2 solid walls it shouldn't be too difficult to place a short dogleg or even take the shaft off verticle at about 20 deg for a metre or so but it will need heavier materials, and something a bit bigger than the 14mm pins weve used to fix the scaff to the wall so far.  From what I've seen so far it doesn't look like we need to move out too far so it might just be easier to extend the shaft out into the chamber by about a metre, but like MarkR says we'll meet that challenge if it occurs.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Badlad on July 18, 2015, 01:02:57 pm
Had a look down Eldon on Thursday evening.  Was hoping to surprise the diggers on their usual night but they were having a break in Giants! :-[

Anyway, a great job on the boarding - sticking to the rules of good shaft driving and I'm sure it'll pay dividends in the end.  I thought the strong draught coming from the bottom corner was a great sign and the dig a sure fire winner (not like the midge infested, draught-less no-hopers we have up here  ;)).  It seems obvious that the way on is going to be out into the chamber more and the rift is starting to pinch in and the floor consolidating with thick mud.  From my experience of shaft driving in the Dales (in such places as Deaths Head, Mohole, etc) I suggest you start stepping outwards towards the chamber now.  If you do have to have a step in the shaft you need to anticipate it early to allow yourselves a workable step to roof distance.  Undercutting the shaft wall is a technical challenge for sure and you'll need to be on top of your game.  I suggest you start driving those boards for the next ring in at about 45 degrees and to do that you need a temporary pole in the working area to get a start.  It's fiddly and cramped work but I think you'll enjoy the challenge.  Give me a ring if you want a hand and good luck.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Big Jim on July 18, 2015, 06:53:39 pm
And when you've found and fully explored the Eldon streamway, how about applying your 'shafting skills' to one or both of those big dolines on the NE side of Eldon Hill..... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Paz Vale on July 18, 2015, 08:26:03 pm
Me, Dan and Chris Hibberts down today.  Pulled about 40 buckets out and, as we'd pretty much expected, hit a prominent ledge which blocked about half the shaft.   Have started to step out the shaft along the east wall, following the draught and the gaps in the boulders with the west side will still following the same vertical line.  We're planning to put a proper scaff frame in next weekend, stepping into the shaft for about a metre at 45 degrees, with rings spaced every foot till we start to go vertical again.  Decided against just driving the boards in at that angle in favour of something more solid as the boulders behind the boards are moving and I heard movement further into the boulders last weekend.

Also, there has been some movement of the boulders in the climb down from the entrance shaft.  On the way in, Dan found the entrance to the chamber blocked by a large boulder which he had to kick out of the way, luckily missing the brewing kit.  We shifted some more loose stuff on the way out but anyone going in should take care just in case anything else decides to move.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Badlad on July 18, 2015, 09:19:23 pm
That boulder was there when I went down on Thursday and I had to squeeze past it.  You could see the fresh mark on the roof where it hit but I couldn't tell where it came from.   Looks a little loose in some of that choke.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: braveduck on July 18, 2015, 10:04:40 pm
I think you should now start using 2inch boards to be on the safe side .The 1inch
are not strong enough for this change especially if things are on the move !
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: richardg on July 19, 2015, 12:18:16 am
Well done with the consistent advancement

Thank you for the continuous progress reports

Take Care......
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: markpot on July 21, 2015, 07:56:21 pm
Effort on the dig chaps,comeing on nicely.keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Paz Vale on July 26, 2015, 07:38:01 pm
Just me and Dan initially yesterday, although we were joined by Simon Brookes later on, so didn't get as much done as we'd hoped for due to a shortage of numbers.   Haven't started properly on the frame yet although got the first couple of scaff poles fixed in place.  Dan will be going down at some point mid week to stabilise the boulders behind the boards directly above where we are planning to fix the frame, the roof section of which we are hoping to finish next Saturday. 
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Filter on July 26, 2015, 09:24:04 pm
I'm in a position where I might be able to join in on the dig, is it every Thu and Sat?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Paz Vale on July 27, 2015, 09:27:46 am
There are usually teams in Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday although midweek turnouts have been a bit sporadic recently what with holidays and putting in this dogleg.  Saturdays your best bet at the moment, we're definitely in next weekend. 
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Paz Vale on July 31, 2015, 07:38:09 pm
Scratch my last post.  Looks like most of the Eldon team are working this weekend so there won't be anyone in tomorrow (unless the Badgers are planning on going).  We should hopefully be back on track with the frame next week.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on July 31, 2015, 08:00:30 pm
The badgers are all on exodus at the moment, we should all start regrouping in the next week or so I hope.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on August 10, 2015, 08:14:05 am
Popped down with Tom on Wednesday. Pulled some rock out and did some more capping of the rock ledge which turned out to be at least partly big Boulder. Back to something solid now though.
Big void behind the boards up to the second ring- I think that's where we should start going diagonally rather than at the bottom of we will end up with a grovel or squeeze half way down the shaft! Also because of the huge void- there's less digging required and less need for back filling.
M
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Over the Hill on August 10, 2015, 08:42:24 am
 :beer2: :beer2:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on August 11, 2015, 08:26:28 am
Not a good void- a bad one where rubble has collapsed out from behind the boards and not been packed back in as the boards are hammered down!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Over the Hill on August 11, 2015, 08:54:23 am
 :down:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Goydenman on August 25, 2015, 10:10:00 am
Any further work been done guys?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Tangent_tracker on August 26, 2015, 06:14:33 pm
Visited Eldon with fellow members of the DCC Sunday and peeped over the edge of the shaft to the new dig - Have to say I was blown away by the amount of stuff you guys have shifted and the scaff work is some of the best I have seen yet I think  :-) Keep up the good work!!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: danthecavingman on September 01, 2015, 06:43:20 pm
No recent trip reports for Eldon on either the Buttered Badgers or the EPC website....

All quiet on the Eldon front?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Alex on September 01, 2015, 07:10:57 pm
No one was digging it when we were down there on Saturday.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Paz Vale on September 01, 2015, 07:44:18 pm
Not been down to the dig for a few weeks as I've been working Saturdays and most of the Eldon lads are abroad or have their own work commitments.  Don't know if the Badgers have been in since their last post.  I should be back in there toward the end of September although I think it may be a good idea to start the entrance clearance project as soon as given that there has been movement since we started digging.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Tangent_tracker on September 02, 2015, 07:05:35 pm
Are you going to start hauling stuff out of the pot entirely?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Paz Vale on September 03, 2015, 06:25:55 pm
No.  The plan is to sink a scaff and timber shaft (like in the dig) down to the arch between the ent. shaft and the main chamber and line the back of the boards with the excvated stone.  Any bits of old timber, ladders and other metalwork will be hauled out and disposed of.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Over the Hill on October 06, 2015, 12:02:45 pm
No more reports !  :down:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on October 06, 2015, 12:15:47 pm
I think there has been a bit of a break for logistics and permissions for the next stage.

I was a bit drunk when chatting, but I got the impression that Eldon And Badgers want to sort the entrance crawl and boulder slope out before they cut the shaft back underneath the boulder slope. and this is what they need permission (and funds?) to do.

I'm sure they will be back "on it" as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on October 06, 2015, 12:49:22 pm
As Alistair has already mentioned, there has been a bit of a lul in the proceedings due to the summer holidays and expeditions etc. All permissions are now in place and we will let you know how things progress in the coming weeks.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on November 01, 2015, 06:36:19 pm
After a long break Mark Richardson and me went down Eldon Hole again today to see how to progress the project. Mark R had a trip down Rowter Hole first to collect a stash of pins he had left in there. All good training for his forthcoming China expedition.

Neither of us had much of a clue about what we needed to do but after a 4 hour trip we think we now have it sussed and have new scaffolding in place which should allow us to make some forward progress before heading downwards again. Things are quite loose at the bottom and a large rockfall behind the boards did have us questioning whether we should be down there at all.

On coming out of the dig we noticed the flat section at the bottom of the upper rectangular shaft had slumped/dropped by around 0.5m. This has probably stabilised the rest of the shaft so we think it should be a bit safer from now on. We are planning on running a number of scaffold tubes to form the diagonal roof section and we now have the first three of these installed. We will probably not bother with boards for this section and instead just use lots of scaffold tubes until we start heading down again.

We have pulled out all the brewing gear, which was starting to look a bit disgusting. If you need a brew down there, just take a flask.

We are heading back in again on Thursday night if anyone would like to join us.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: tamarmole on November 02, 2015, 10:39:20 am
Great to see things moving again; good luck sinking the diagonal section.  I am really looking forward to further updates   Take care and stay safe. 
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Goydenman on November 02, 2015, 06:00:34 pm
Great to see things moving again; good luck sinking the diagonal section.  I am really looking forward to further updates   Take care and stay safe.

I agree good luck guys
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on November 13, 2015, 12:18:53 am
Mark Richardson and me were back down there again tonight.

Things are starting to look good again at the bottom of the shaft and we actually made about 60cm of forward progress under the 10m of rubble. If only we had started the original shaft 1m further back.

The diagonal roof system is made of 6 scaffold tubes and it appears to be doing a good job. We will need some more tubes very shortly and the system will eat a lot of fittings (Laps mainly) but it should be relatively easy to start making progress again, simply by slackening off a couple of fittings and knocking the tubes further in and then adding horizontal braces as we go. There's a lot of unfastening and fastening back up again of fittings but once you get into a rhythm it should be fairly straightforward.

Since the big slump we had a few weeks ago, the bottom of the shaft could do with a good clear out before we do anything else and get back down to the solid floor and find the fixed horizontal tube thats hidden under the rubble.

Mark R and the rest of the regular Badger diggers are off to China for 3 weeks on Saturday morning so if anyone fancies a trip over this weekend we could clear out the bottom of the shaft. Its a bit awkward at the bottom for the moment with all the tubes in position so a 3 person team would be best.

Any takers?

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Over the Hill on November 13, 2015, 09:17:49 am
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on November 15, 2015, 09:36:50 pm
Another good trip down there today with Glynn Roberts and Phil Wolstenholme of the TSG, Luke Cafferty and me.

We managed to clear out about 1.5m of rubble from the bottom of the shaft, drive some tubes further into the roof of the dig and tap down a few more boards. We also installed some stabilisation tubes to support a rather large block that I think will need capping. Unfortunately we've run out of tubes so will be off shopping next week for some.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on November 15, 2015, 10:00:53 pm
Nice to do a bit of moonlighting on someone else's dig for once, and great to see just how deep it is now - a very impressive job.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: braveduck on November 15, 2015, 10:49:17 pm
Now that the Monsoon season has returned,have you still got any draft at the bottom ?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on November 15, 2015, 11:16:52 pm
There's been a fair bit of trodden in mud in the bottom and this has probably blocked the draught to some extent but my eCig vapour went whistling up the shaft pretty quickly and I kept getting the odd cool breeze on my face as I disturbed the mud. It was very much Monsoon season on the surface today.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on January 24, 2016, 08:02:26 pm
Mark Richardson and Mark Sims had a good day down Eldon Hole on Saturday and I joined them both today for another good session. We took another 2 tubes down with us today.

First task was clearing out, once again, the bottom of the shaft with lots of bucket hauling by the other two. There weren't too many complaints about the weight of the bucket. I'm glad I was only filling them.

After yesterdays trip they reckoned we had lost the right wall which could have caused some problems but after a lot more work today we have found it again and everything is looking good. The dig face is now well over 2m horizontally from the bottom of the shaft and the 9 scaffold tubes above your head give you a lot more confidence when you're at the sharp end. We should soon be heading vertically down again. No spectacular draughts today just the usual occasional cool feeling on the face.

We are keen to get this project moving again on a regular basis after a long break.

Unfortunately after todays trip we have no scaffold tubes left and could do with a bag of Singles and a bag of Doubles.

TomTom was supposed to be joining us but he texted with his excuses when we were in the pub afterwards.
Apparently he had a puncture in one of his roller-skates?

Back in on Thursday evening if anyone would like to join us for some bucket hauling.

Cheers,

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark on January 24, 2016, 08:16:08 pm
Should have some scaff clips you can have, leave it with me.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on January 24, 2016, 10:23:09 pm
Cheers Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Pete K on January 26, 2016, 11:50:03 am
Just so anyone involved in the digging is aware, I hope to have the rotten ground anchors dug out from the East and West routes in the next week.
Don't expect any anchors on these routes for the time being.
Once they are out, I'll get the new ones in as soon as humanly possible.
Offers of help are gratefully received!

Pete Knight
DCA Projects
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Pete K on January 26, 2016, 04:45:32 pm
Does anyone have contact details for the owner and or tenant they can message me?
I'm now hoping we can get a 4x4 up there next Thursday and get the new anchors installed if weather allowed.
Also, does anyone have a 4x4 for an hour next Thursday?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on January 26, 2016, 10:57:48 pm
The landowner is the same as Eldon Quarry as far as I know, a little searching on here should find his details, bear with me...
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on January 26, 2016, 11:03:38 pm
See reply number 5

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=16990.0 (http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=16990.0)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Pete K on January 27, 2016, 07:21:25 am
Cheers Alistair. Never realised it was the same chap.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark on January 28, 2016, 01:47:08 pm
When do you need the clips for
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on January 28, 2016, 03:45:54 pm
Mark,

We are meeting at 7pm tonight for a trip but we should be OK for clips tonight at least. We've got a couple of 6' tubes to take down with us tonight but will need a load of scaffolding and clips for next Thursdays trip.

Are any of the EPC diggers joining us?

Cheers,

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: bograt on January 28, 2016, 10:53:11 pm
Please don't forget the main shaft to first chamber part of it, funded, not time restricted?, but eagerly awaited!!---
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on January 29, 2016, 12:05:26 am
We've not forgotten about the stabilisation work. I think we might wait until we get some dry weather before we make a start on it. We've got our hands full with the dig at the moment. Horrible weather tonight. Its a good job they didn't try to drive up there today for the bollard work. I doubt even a decent 4x4 would have made it to the entrance. I struggled getting my Freelander up the farmers track to the top gate.

Mark Richardson, Henry Rockliff and me were down again tonight and managed to lower the floor of the dig by about 1m and got some more scaffold and boards in place and then hauled all the spoil out. Next trip should see us getting another ring in place and possibly starting to go down again. There will be plenty of hauling to do as well and its looking like we might be needing a 4 person team very soon due to the offset in the shaft and the amount of scaffolding to get snagged on.

We are looking at having a big hit on it on Sunday 7th February if anyone would like to come along and help.

Cheers,

Mark

Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on January 29, 2016, 12:42:08 pm
Good work for going out in that. I'm spending a lot of time looking at weather forecasts lately too.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on February 07, 2016, 07:37:21 pm
A big turnout from the Badgers today. Mark R, Mark S, Chris H, Adam W and me.

We tested out the new anchor at the top of the west route. It works. Good effort to the DCA team for carrying all that lot up there. 

Things went very well in the dig with another ring in place and a lot more additional tubes and boards. Its definitely a two person digging team now at the bottom due to the offset in the shaft. We pulled a lot of rubble out and have probably lowered the floor by a good 1m.

We've got a reasonable stash of boards at the bottom of the shaft and Mark R. took a fair few doubles down on Thursday evening. We are short of singles and tubes for the next trip if anyone can help out?

Cheers,

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Goydenman on February 07, 2016, 07:57:38 pm
Good to see you guys back at the place and pushing on - here is to finding something significant
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Pete K on February 07, 2016, 08:05:31 pm
Glad the new bollard stayed put, thanks for testing it!
I'm reliably informed the new bolt anchors will be in my hand midweek and installed soon after.
I'll actually have to get down and have a look at your dig when I'm done.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on February 09, 2016, 08:36:43 am
A couple of snaps from the 'tunnel' section on Sunday

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/t31.0-8/12698615_10153894831723908_2196271423781496020_o.jpg)

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/12697125_10153894832693908_8758120043298552423_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: MJenkinson on February 09, 2016, 09:22:00 am
As someone who doesn't dig - those pics look terrifying! That looks like a lot of loose shite being held back above you ha!

Good pics mind.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on February 09, 2016, 11:46:38 am
As someone who regularly explores old mines, that's the safest working space I've ever seen ;)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on February 09, 2016, 12:50:50 pm
I'm sure there's times when your life depends on a lot less scaff than that!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: tamarmole on February 09, 2016, 01:07:00 pm
As someone who regularly explores old mines, that's the safest working space I've ever seen ;)

What he said.

Looks a very well thought out and engineered solution to an awkward problem - well done. 

Looking forward to regular reports.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: ah147 on February 09, 2016, 07:23:33 pm
Mark, I have tonnes of 6ft tube you can have for nowt. Possibly the same with boards depending what lengths you need.

Open offer to any diggers in Derbyshire. PM me to sort out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: braveduck on February 09, 2016, 08:42:36 pm
So what is the total dug depth now ,please ?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on February 09, 2016, 09:41:31 pm
Sims Looks like he's having a shocker in the first Photo.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on February 09, 2016, 09:44:55 pm
I've not measured it lately but I would say Mark S (in the upper photo) is about 12m from the top of the shaft.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: ianball11 on February 10, 2016, 12:56:22 am
Mark, I have tonnes of 6ft tube you can have for nowt. Possibly the same with boards depending what lengths you need.

Open offer to any diggers in Derbyshire. PM me to sort out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

blimey! Kind offer
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: ah147 on February 10, 2016, 07:55:07 am
It's been floating around as an offer for 4 years now. Only two people have took me up on it in that time!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: braveduck on March 01, 2016, 08:12:01 pm
Any more digging lately ?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on April 01, 2016, 09:54:23 pm
Mark R and myself popped in last night, being just the two of us the plan wasn’t too elaborate, I’d requested 200m of clean washed passage and perhaps a short but interesting pitch. The undercut of the dig was looking good, the shelf of floor had been cleared and it was now far enough into the rubble to go vertically down again. There was no way we could haul with just the two of us so Mark went into the undercut and proceeded to throw rocks at me for me to stack in various places at the bottom of the main shaft.
 
Through a mix of throwing large rocks at me and loading a bucket with smaller ones we managed to fill up a step at the bottom of the main shaft, lowing the floor in the undercut from crouch level to stoop level. Eventually it was my turn to throw and Marks to stack, he went for the stacking technique of pushing the rocks behind the boards to fill in the various voids that exist (and which we don’t like to think about). I managed to briefly upset him by announcing that I had found some solid floor, but it was just some glued together rocks.
 
Despite being some way down it’s very fresh at the dig face, there is a definite draft down there, and the rock is very pleasant for digging through. We made fair progress so that we were able to stand with room to spare in the centre, it should get much easier to dig down there again now that it's standing room.

To be continued at the weekend and again midweek next week
http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=389:clean-washed-passage&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58 (http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=389:clean-washed-passage&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on April 04, 2016, 12:47:10 pm
03/04/16

Chris H, Luke N, Mark R

Luke arrived late- standard. in the meantime Chris and I had taken some scaffolding and tools underground and were busy away measuring and chopping scaffolding. we managed to get a new ring in, the first ring in the downwards direction since the diagonal shimmy in the shaft.

We didn't haul anything out but installed a new step in the diagonal section to backfill with spoil. After a quick skegg stop we swapped round and while Luke and Chris hammered and swore boards into position I installed some new scaffolding around the entrance portal into the diagonal bit and cut out one of the horizontal poles that was otherwise right in the way.

Recent slips behind the boards higher up do seem to have taken their toll. A closer inspection of the shaft showed that most rings have dropped but one in particular at the bottom has dropped quite some way. You can see the void behind the boards above it where spoil has shifted and knocked the frame down. I'm sure it will be fine though.

Throughout the day there was a definite fresh draught wafting out of the dig, which is good as we had a curry the night before.

I'm feeling good about the whole thing but I just can't help but think that this downwards progress may be short lived before more diagonal shenanigans is called for.

 

Mark R

http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=390:building-work&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58 (http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=390:building-work&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on April 08, 2016, 12:06:22 pm
Mark R, TomTom

07/04/16
 
 
Whilst the morning was wind and hail central by the time it was dig o’clock the weather was back to being rather nice again. The weather did however mean that both Mark and myself had to abandon our cars at the limit of their momentum.
 
Tonights load was much more pleasant, just a tackle bag of scaff clips each. The descent is much quicker when a rendition of tubular bells isn’t required and we were soon at the dig once more. The first order of the day was to re-thread the pulley with a new rope, this required the juggling of washers whilst suspended over the shaft. Surprisingly not one was dropped.
 
Job two involved the lowering down of some fresh boards to rebuild the bomb proof shelter that protects the digger from falling debris in the shaft. After that there was a bit of shuffling of loose scaff tubes whilst we delayed the inevitable, we had to do some hauling. Whilst two isn’t an ideal number to haul with at least we had a better rope, or something.
 
After a few rounds of hauling Mark had an idea how we could make things harder. If we tied the haul rope into a loop we could always have one bucket going up the shaft, and so it began. As it turns out it was mostly a success bar two bucket incidents. One involved me throwing a bucket down the dumping slope and the other involved an empty one going down the shaft, hitting the bomb proof shelter.
 
We hauled for an amount of time/buckets until suddenly the bottom of the shaft was empty. This gave us a legitimate reason to retire to the pub and so we did.
 
Much plotting is afoot now, mostly involving how best to haul around the diagonal part of the shaft. We have several options in our heads but I think all of them will need more than 2 diggers to operate. We shall see!
 
 
 TomTom

http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=391:loopty-loop&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58 (http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=391:loopty-loop&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Brains on April 08, 2016, 12:48:38 pm
Really good to hear things are progressing well. With luck by the time I am back to fitness I will be able to go swimming in the river! However, if there is still work to do I shall come and lend a hand  ;D
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: MarkS on April 10, 2016, 10:48:40 pm
With all the politics going on at the moment, it's probably time for a caving update!

With 6 of us down Eldon for around 7 hours today, progress was good. After a few slightly nervy moments, we've got the shaft heading vertically down below the dog-leg. We estimate that we hauled up over 2 tonnes of rubble today, corresponding to well over a metre of downward progress. And we've certainly got a decent draught  :)

Full report to come...
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on April 11, 2016, 02:18:26 am
Sounds great! Are there any recent photos or is there not much to see? What are you doing with the slag, piling it up in the chamber and building scaff upwards to stop it rolling back in?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: adam on April 11, 2016, 10:43:35 am
Slaaaaaaaaaaag! Just tipping it in the chamber Terry. Planning to build a spiral staircase up to Damocles Rift.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Kevlar on April 11, 2016, 10:53:49 am
I did notice last time I was in the the bottom hanger for the Damocles pull through seems unnaturally low now!

Get that staircase built ;)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on April 11, 2016, 12:57:59 pm
Ill see if I can get some video of it on Thursday night- TomTom, may be one for your underground video expertise?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on April 11, 2016, 01:21:01 pm
Will do, I'll take the camera and you can take my share of scaffold poles :)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: MarkS on April 11, 2016, 01:43:12 pm
There's now a full report of yesterday's trip on the Buttered Badger wesbite (http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=393:the-delights-of-digging-down&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58).

Kevlar - rebolting the pull-up cord anchors further up the wall was discussed yesterday!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Goydenman on April 11, 2016, 01:56:15 pm
Great report and good chance of progress in the sessions to come. Well done team.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on April 11, 2016, 03:14:10 pm
Good to see so many current and Ex Yorkies active in Derbyshire. I count 4 on that trip.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on April 11, 2016, 05:06:10 pm
When you've dug through the rubble and reached the bottom of the chamber, what then? Are you expecting to find a sideways passage that the rocks haven't filled? (a bit like how we try and escape from the snow in Durmitor Mark and Walmslers). And how will you know which way to drive a horizontal tunnel through the rubble to get to an open passage?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on April 11, 2016, 05:12:29 pm
Boothatron! I don't think they know... it's part of the excitement!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Rob on April 11, 2016, 05:13:34 pm
That's exactly why i was always very negative about their approach in Rowter...  :doubt:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on April 12, 2016, 01:23:20 pm
Alistair- two of the ex Yorkies are badgers now.. I think they were lured over by the prospect of a lost river ;)

Hopefully the chamber will just gradually taper down into a single point just beneath where we're currently digging and no more sideways is required!... we can dream. The rumour was that the old man capped the 'shaft' into the river with large slabs or timbers so that the whole place could be filled up. that suggests that it may be a vertical continuation we're looking for but in reality... who knows? :)

On a different note, id like to try and arrange a weekend to deal with that shitty entrance crawl this summer- ill post on here for volunteers soon but in the meantime we may make a tentative start on carrying some kit up there and installing the first bit of framework.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: MarkS on April 12, 2016, 01:30:24 pm
... how will you know which way to drive a horizontal tunnel through the rubble to get to an open passage?

We'll just dig towards the howling draught and the roar of the water. Simples.  ;)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on April 12, 2016, 03:32:46 pm
Alistair- two of the ex Yorkies are badgers now.. I think they were lured over by the prospect of a lost river ;)

I know :)

One of them (I think) said he'd give up caving when he hit 30, just make sure he knows that all your doing is cake baking or model building and I think he might continue to cave...
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: mch on April 12, 2016, 03:35:42 pm
The rumour was that the old man capped the 'shaft' into the river with large slabs or timbers so that the whole place could be filled up. that suggests that it may be a vertical continuation we're looking for but in reality... who knows? :)

For a reference to the origins of this story, which is probably true, see the current issue (no 140) of The Derbyshire Caver, which should be at the usual retail outlets shortly.

Mike Higgins
DCA Newsletter Editor/Publications Officer
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: adam on April 12, 2016, 03:53:59 pm
I was pondering this while sitting in the main chamber on Sunday. It's impressive enough to consider that all the material from 'floor level' in the main chamber up to the bottom of the entrance shaft has been tipped in. However the dig face is now 10 m down from there - I find it very difficult to believe that so much material could have been tipped down the cave. That would have required a determined and persistent campaign over several generations.

I'd be keen to read that article if I can find a copy.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Madness on April 12, 2016, 04:00:07 pm
It would be good if some of the fill could be hauled out of the entrance shaft. It would make the stabilisation work easier.
A jib a powered winch would probably be needed though.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on April 12, 2016, 04:14:34 pm
I agree walmslers I've always been a bit sceptical that the fill is all building waste, there just seems too much volume. Would stones dropped down the entrance shaft roll nicely into the main chamber or just clog up the shaft? What are the stones like at the coal face could they be natural? Not that it matters much, if there's a draft then there's something.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Over the Hill on April 12, 2016, 04:59:35 pm
It takes a lot of rocks to keep those Trolls captured  :o
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on April 12, 2016, 04:59:50 pm
I was pondering this while sitting in the main chamber on Sunday. It's impressive enough to consider that all the material from 'floor level' in the main chamber up to the bottom of the entrance shaft has been tipped in. However the dig face is now 10 m down from there - I find it very difficult to believe that so much material could have been tipped down the cave. That would have required a determined and persistent campaign over several generations.

I'd be keen to read that article if I can find a copy.


The original full report is in the link below.

http://rstl.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/61/250.full.pdf (http://rstl.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/61/250.full.pdf)

You should spend less time pondering in the main chamber and more time digging at the bottom!!!

It was reported that at least 2 cottages were thrown down the entrance shaft not to mention lots of dry stone walls.

There's plenty of room in the main chamber for stacking spoil but if you want to haul some of it out of the entrance shaft, feel free, though your time would probably be better spent in the dig.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on April 12, 2016, 05:11:53 pm
There are a lot of old Mine workings up on that hill, (a surprising amount!)

Take a look at a satellite view on google (or others). North of Eldon hole there are about Three or Four easily definable lead rakes.

It would only have taken the landowner to say he didn't want to see any spoil on the surface for all of the mines to look for an easy alternative. I have heard somewhere that some miners were working in Eldon hole, so maybe there is a lead vein somewhere under the rubble that has been worked, as far as I know no evidence of mining has been found yet in Eldon hole.

and all the other bits which Mark has just spoken of.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on April 12, 2016, 05:19:40 pm
Most of the veins in the area are east-west, or not far off, whereas Eldon Hole is on NW-SE joint/fracture set. Though I think there was some exploration for workable veins - I'm sure Jim R has mentioned it. The small level off the (current) floor of Batham Pot worked a vein there, but then that's an actual vein cavity, and the vein is inline with the hole - but at least the opportunity to prospect such a large volume of rock in cross-section must have been useful for miners, even if they didn't find anything.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: AR on April 12, 2016, 10:47:15 pm

It would only have taken the landowner to say he didn't want to see any spoil on the surface for all of the mines to look for an easy alternative.

Under the mining laws, the landowner couldn't stop the miners tipping spoil on the surface - the "right of quarter cord" allowed tipping  of waste within a distance of a quarter of a meer (7-8 yards) from the vein cheek.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Over the Hill on April 13, 2016, 08:48:44 am
"Under the mining laws, the landowner couldn't stop the miners tipping spoil on the surface - the "right of quarter cord" allowed tipping  of waste within a distance of a quarter of a meer (7-8 yards) from the vein cheek."

You have seen nothing yet then. Wait and see what the fracking does.  :wall:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on April 15, 2016, 10:42:58 pm
Ill see if I can get some video of it on Thursday night- TomTom, may be one for your underground video expertise?

We filmed a video tour of the dig on Thursday night, I'll quickly stitch it together and get it on here this weekend along with a report.

The dig now also has a very impressive ladder installed (yes, there is such a thing).
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on April 15, 2016, 11:33:44 pm
In fact, all done....

Production value

Henry R, Ivor, Mark R, TomTom
14/06/16
http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=394:production-value&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58 (http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=394:production-value&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58)

Arriving at Eldon hole I was greeted by Ivor who had read about the dig on UKCaving and fancied joining in, an extra helper is always appreciated, especially with the steelwork we were due to be carrying down. 

Henry had been constructing a ladder which could be taken down in sections and rebuilt in the dig, this would save us the hassle of climbing ever slippier scaffolding above an ever deeper hole. Now two lengths of ladder aren’t exactly the easiest thing to descend diagonally with but at least it made a slightly different ding to that of scaffolding. Change the tune and all that.

Mark and myself were first to reach the dig face and we had a bit of a side mission to complete. I’d brought my GoPro and Mark a filming light, allowing us to stitch together quite possibly the most professional looking tour video you have ever seen. Now I don’t want to ruin this video for you so I’ll just post it below, no spoilers.

Once the filming was complete it was to the ladder construction. I’ve made the mistake of leaving this report for 24 hours so this may be a little more vague. Henry had been busy chopping up a ladder and predrilling it to be attached back together using 12mm steel plates. He’d even had the forethought to make sure the rungs were evenly placed when it went back together, removing that common dig issue where a ladders rung is never quite where you expect it.

The was some persuasion needed to get the ladder together, but this meant it was very solid once it was all bolted up. We carefully lowered it into place and bolted it to the scaffolding in the shaft at the far side of the dig, out of the way of the haul line. It doesn’t half feel solid, what luxury.

Our hard work was done and we are all set for a return to digging now, so watch this space!

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4dMAbYpzqU#)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: bograt on April 15, 2016, 11:49:23 pm
Good video, impressive dig  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: - thanks!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on April 16, 2016, 01:10:55 am
Great stuff. That pulley needs oiling though  ;)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Madness on April 16, 2016, 08:38:30 am
It's very impressive what's been achieved. All that loose rock above the dogleg looks a bit scary though.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Caver Keith on April 16, 2016, 08:47:42 am
Wow.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: chunky on April 16, 2016, 10:07:51 am
Great looking dig!

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: The Old Ruminator on April 16, 2016, 10:40:07 am
Whoopie. A brilliant change from all the usual yap. Wonderful resonant presenter . More like this please  :bow:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Goydenman on April 16, 2016, 12:37:39 pm
Great video gives us a real feel for the dig - back to digging straight down that's good
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: tamarmole on April 16, 2016, 12:43:52 pm
Phenomenal achievement - I hate to think what that dig has cost in timber and scaff to date!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Brains on April 16, 2016, 01:02:47 pm
Looking really impressive, wondwer how much more rubble there is to the floor?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Rob on April 16, 2016, 02:43:04 pm
Great to see the video of the dig. Great as a progress record.

Are there many big rocks down there (i.e. that need capping) or are they mostly smaller than say a microwave?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on April 16, 2016, 04:20:47 pm
Pretty much no capping needed at the moment. The occasional one needs the rock net to haul up but most are easily handled.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Rob on April 16, 2016, 06:16:48 pm
Pretty much no capping needed at the moment. The occasional one needs the rock net to haul up but most are easily handled.
Thanks. That supports the idea of walling stone, rather than glacial fill....
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on April 16, 2016, 08:37:28 pm
Thanks for the video!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Trogladite on April 17, 2016, 09:34:59 am
Hi, I remember back in the 1950's I read somewhere (Forgot where) That a man was lowered down Eldon  many many years ago and came across "A vast lake" and he could not see the other side of it (Poor Lights ? even only a Tallow Candle ?)
Just another lost tail to add too, and wet the appetite.
Cheers Peter. :beer2:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on May 01, 2016, 12:46:02 pm
David S, Ivor, Mark R, TomTom
28/04/16

I was running a little late but as it turned out it all worked out, Mark and David were just heading up the hill as Ivor and myself arrived. We had plenty of planks to take to the dig and with a few of us going down Mark rigged the North and West routes. Despite the clouds dumping most of the north Atlantic over the country throughout the day it was surprisingly dry both on the walk up and in the cave itself.

With four of us about it was going to be an evening of hauling, with one on the dig face, one dealing with the dogleg, and two at the top hauling on the looped rope. We weren’t far off adding a new ring so after a few buckets we changed to cutting the planks and scaff to size and drilling the pins into place.

The shark cage is getting some depth now, an assisting haul rope is required to get the buckets into the main shaft as it’s getting a bit far to throw. A more permanent idea is needed in the near future but for now it’s working well.

Once the ring was in place and we’d cleared a bit of space we changed places a little, hauling bucket after bucket out of the shaft so that the floor of the shark cage sunk a fair distance in just an evening’s dig. It’s probably around 50cm deeper than in the video in the last trip report.

Sometime after 10pm we decided to head for freedom, and I decided to climb the North route for the first time in ages. After a few prussiks it became apparent that I was being attacked by tiny pieces of ice, it was hailing fairly heavily even at the bottom of Eldon hole.  This hail turned to snow as I climbed up and I was becoming a snow man by the time I dragged myself over the lip to the surface.

We took some cover in the gully by the south route until everyone was out before heading across the snowy fields for freedom. Almost May and it’s still snowing up here, typical!


TomTom
http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=395:the-ruffler&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58 (http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=395:the-ruffler&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 02, 2016, 01:54:46 am
Mark Richardson, Mark Sims and me were down there today (Sunday) for a 6 hour digging session. I'm aching a bit.

Sorry to Mark R and Mark S for not getting this report out sooner only I started reading the BCA meeting minutes and lost track of time.

We managed to install another ring and add a further 1.5m of depth following TomTom's trip, approx. -12m. Unfortunately though, the solidity of the sloping floor of the first dogleg is forcing us further out into the shaft so we are now going to have to install another dogleg, making hauling back to the Main Chamber that little bit harder.

I'd not been down for a while, due to work commitments, and so was very surprised and very pleased at the strength of the draught coming out of the dig today, very encouraging. The hard work and considerable expense (+/- £1.2K + A lot of free tubes) the Buttered Badgers and a good few prospective members have made excellent progress despite there being no EPC presence since the end of last summer.

This next dogleg is going to use up a good few tubes and fittings so Thursday evening should see the underground scaffold store re-stocked, we ran out of tubes today. We took down 12 x 1.8m boards.

Mark S thought he was going to have an easy trip back up the entrance shaft until we spotted one of the recently removed concrete and steel bollards at the base of the shaft!!

Luckily it hadn't damage any of the fixed ropes but it had clearly chipped off a good few chunks of the rock walls on its way down.

Thanks to Mark S, that bollard, and a second one we found beside the gate half way up the entrance track, less than 5 minutes from the car park, are being appropriately disposed of tomorrow.

Hopefully the other two bollards were disposed of more appropriately.

Mark

Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark on May 02, 2016, 07:18:47 am
Good work chaps

Still got a couple of bags of singles and doubles, waiting to be collected if you want them.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: MarkS on May 02, 2016, 11:34:02 am
It was an enjoyable day, but really disappointing to have to drag out the bollard from the bottom of the shaft, particularly having spent a day hauling out a huge amount rubbish from the same place not so long ago. :thumbsdown:

On a more positive note, hopefully the next diagonal section will be a little easier than the last, now we have more than no clue of how to go about making it work! It's certainly not as daunting a prospect as last time. As Mark W said, there's a good draught to follow too!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on May 06, 2016, 08:39:04 am
05/05/16

Luke N, Tom Tom, Ivor D, Mark R


Luke was delighted to be given 4 planks and 2 poles to carry up the hill- as was tom, as was Ivor.. we got a lot of kit underground last night!

Ivor, Luke and I began by hauling all the spoil from Sunday's trip out of the dig from the ledge where it was stockpiled, this went remarkably smoothly and within an hour or so we had it all cleared. Whilst we were doing this, Tom was in the bottom of the dig poking scaffold poles into the start of the new diagonal section and sending up the occasional bucket as he did so.

Eventually it was time for Luke to leave (around 9:30 I think) and so the rest of us spent until nearly 11:00 pulling buckets out of the very bottom and stockpiling it all on the ledge by what is becoming known as The Windy Gap. The draught was great last night, helped by the much warmer than usual temperatures outside. It is difficult to tell where the air flow is coming from within our shaft but one thing is for sure- it's a good job we decided to go diagonal again. My fear is that we may have left it slightly too late- the back wall is very sticky compacted mud and the front wall is clean washed rock. Everything in between is a range from one to the other. There were a load of small bones and a tiny skull stuck in the mud and also a section of curved bone about 1" diameter and 2 1/2" long. It had that yellowy lustre to it that suggests its pretty old. If anyone could suggest a place to take it for identification I'll bring it out.

We uncovered a ginormous boulder... or a big lump of solid rock in the floor(?) wall(?) just as we started the diagonal. I had a whack with a hammer and it felt bloody solid. If it's a boulder we will have to bang it away, if its floor or wall then we may have to come up a ring or two and start our diagonal again. Progress over the next few trips will be fairly slow and painstaking- going diagonal is also terrifying, at the same time though, it should be interesting :)

In bed for 12:30- hopefully Tom got home before 0100.. no pub again :(

Mark R
http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=397:bones-and-boulders&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58 (http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=397:bones-and-boulders&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 16, 2016, 10:31:34 am
The Buttered Badger Potholing Club's Eldon Hole project saw a cast of thousands (well, there were 8 of us including a good contingent from York Uni.) down the hole yesterday for a 6 hour digging session.

The day started with breakfast at Yonderman's Cafe followed by 2 trips each across the fields with a mass of tubes, clips and boards. Thanks to Mark Noble for the bag of clips collected en route to the cafe.

After a mammoth session of lowering everything down the entrance shaft, Mark Richardson + 5 concentrated their efforts on the main dig face for most of the day digging out spoil and installing the next load of scaffolding into the second dogleg in the shaft.

Mark Sims and me made a start on the stabilisation work at the bottom of the entrance shaft. By the end of the day we had 3 rings and about 20 boards installed. A few large boulders needing capping halted the proceedings but the new shaft is looking good.

Pegasus and Badlad, on their way home from a 90th birthday party, joined us at the entrance just as we were all coming out and then we all went to the Devonshire for a pint. 

The Badgers will be down again on Thursday evening to continue the work.   

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Goydenman on May 16, 2016, 12:24:38 pm
Sounds like a good team of people and a lot achieved - great
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Rob on May 16, 2016, 06:26:29 pm
3 rings in one day? Sounds like excellent progress!  :thumbsup:

Did you have to carry out dog leg number 2?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on May 16, 2016, 08:53:52 pm
3 rings on the entrance, dogleg 2 well underway.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on May 17, 2016, 09:32:03 am
If only I was there to help. I do love carrying loads up that field. Oh well, there's always Thursday.

(http://i.imgur.com/Q7QabwE.jpg)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mrs Trellis on May 17, 2016, 09:56:57 am
This is an extremely complex and well-executed project. When you have finished and walked out of Peak Cavern via the Master Cave I have a wish-list of about another ooooh ten or so projects for you to enjoy yourselves on
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on May 17, 2016, 10:43:36 am
Give us a new topic then :D

"Mrs Trellis' top ten Derbyshire Projects..."
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Kevlar on May 17, 2016, 10:49:16 am
A list of ongoing promising, yet abandoned leads would be a great thread, brilliant way to ensure older sites get a thorough modern look...
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Rob on May 17, 2016, 11:10:52 am
Has been discussed on here a number of times before. A quick search found this thread, but i'm sure there are others also....
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=604.0 (http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=604.0)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: numb7rs on May 17, 2016, 04:03:18 pm
Here's a shot of the three rings at the head of the entrance crawl. It's a start, but there's certainly more work to be done.

(http://i.imgur.com/Fst125xm.jpg) (http://imgur.com/Fst125x.jpg)
Photo thanks to Mike R
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: rhychydwr1 on May 17, 2016, 04:29:49 pm
Brilliant video, just got around to viewing it.  One point, I am a pit worried about that wooden shattering.  In 10 years time it will be GONE!  cf Cuckoo Cleeves.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Rob on May 17, 2016, 04:49:26 pm
I'm not familiar with the Cookoo Cleaves example, but i do know that the ~200 year old stemple I was standing on last week had stood the test of time extremely well, and I imagine that wasn't tanalised unlike the planks that the Badger use.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mrs Trellis on May 17, 2016, 08:39:10 pm
Tanalised eh? 21st century digging.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: AR on May 17, 2016, 09:14:39 pm
Going way off topic for a moment, while in the Beer Shop in Sheffield Market today I spotted a brew from Thornbridge, an 8% oak-aged stout called Eldon.... :beer2:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on May 18, 2016, 12:54:32 am
I climbed up some 100 year-old (at least) stemples this afternoon, and they were rock-solid. Some 300 year-old ones in Odin are equally sound. I think it depends mostly on stability of environment and placement, and if not permanently damp, will keep for yonks. I have been wondering though whether there's some sort of plastic solution that's cheap enough, strong enough and non-degrading enough to the water supply to be used instead of wood on projects like this? Some plastics will quite literally last forever.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Madness on May 18, 2016, 08:14:14 am
I would have thought that stemples would probably be a dense hardwood such as oak. Modern pressure treated timber is softwood and not very dense.

Pressure treated softwood will rot fairly quickly if it's wet all the time.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Brains on May 18, 2016, 09:34:36 am
I would have thought that stemples would probably be a dense hardwood such as oak. Modern pressure treated timber is softwood and not very dense.

Pressure treated softwood will rot fairly quickly if it's wet all the time.

The chunky ones ("stulls") were often pitch pine, as the pitch acted as a preservative. The extant cranes in Box Quarry are pitch pine, the newer, oak ones, have rotted
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mrs Trellis on May 18, 2016, 09:38:05 am
I would have thought that stemples would probably be a dense hardwood such as oak. Modern pressure treated timber is softwood and not very dense.

Pressure treated softwood will rot fairly quickly if it's wet all the time.
Spot on.

There was a sawmill in Castleton in ..er.. Mill Lane. Good pics in the Visitor centre. I suppose along with the rope works this supplied the local mining industry.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: tony from suffolk on May 18, 2016, 10:26:10 am
A few years ago the National Trust built a long causeway over marshy ground at the southern end of Derwentwater in the Lake District using "planks" made from recycled tyres. They appear to be very strong and no doubt pretty durable.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on May 18, 2016, 10:36:22 am
I guess for the next half a century the current solution is fine. When that starts to fail, it'll be either fitted out with concrete tubes like Titan or fitted with Breezeblocks like Notts 2.

Who knows, the diggers might be climbing avens in the hillside beyond, and opening new entrances.

and in any case, modern mines still operate with the use of wood to hold stuff up, which get replaced when the time comes.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: bograt on May 20, 2016, 10:58:53 am
The Cave Discovery Fund was originally funded by a levy on membership fees, this is why the rules are biased towards benefits for DCA members, more recent funding has come from donations.

I wonder if BCA could look into sourcing funds under the category 'provision of facilities'?, after all, other sports organisations manage to get assistance for playing fields, etc.---
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Badlad on May 20, 2016, 11:39:26 am
As requested.  Discussion on dig funding now split and moved to here..

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=20390.msg261653;topicseen#new (http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=20390.msg261653;topicseen#new)

Sorry Bograt but your post seems to have slipped the net.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: A_Northerner on May 20, 2016, 11:46:57 am
Going way off topic for a moment, while in the Beer Shop in Sheffield Market today I spotted a brew from Thornbridge, an 8% oak-aged stout called Eldon.... :beer2:

You were in Beer Central? Great beer shop! I shared a bottle of Thornbridge's "Eldon" down Eldon Hole a few weeks ago, it's a quality brew.

As for the wood - I imagine the decomposition process is drastically slowed down in caves and mines due to the lack of airborne bacteria, caves are surprisingly sterile environments particularly when they don't have a lot of grubby organic life (cavers, for example) wandering through them repeatedly.

However this sterile environment does also mean that once a particularly hardy species takes hold there is little competition for it and it is free to grow in ways you wouldn't normally see on the surface - where a myriad of other micro-organisms are vying for their own existence.

This picture of a log I found in Cumberland and Wapping illustrates this quite nicely!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: bograt on May 20, 2016, 12:00:10 pm
As requested.  Discussion on dig funding now split and moved to here..

[url]http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=20390.msg261653;topicseen#new[/url] ([url]http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=20390.msg261653;topicseen#new[/url])

Sorry Bograt but your post seems to have slipped the net.


No probs  :thumbsup: copied over there now  ;)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on May 20, 2016, 12:50:43 pm
19/05/16

Tom Tom, Ivor D, Mark R

Only 6 poles for us all tonight, easy stuff! We had an enjoyable couple of hours capping, hammering scaffolding, swearing and cutting and managed to progress the diagonal by another foot or so. The giant boulder is vastly reduced in size, I'm trying to cap the bottom off it and leave a nice slab to sit in the roof above the scaffold poles. so far, it sort of seems to be working.

We found loads more bones in the mud, mainly tiny bird bones but I also put a crowbar through a big chunk of bone or horn then a few minutes later found a 4" long tapering piece of horn. Ivor thought it looked like it could be a deer which I think may be a good shout.

While I was at the bottom struggling with scaffolding Tom and Ivor had some periods of little activity. I actually heard some complaints along the lines of it being too cold sat in the draught! Not often you get that complaint from a dig :)

We exited some time after 10 having collected some footage for an unusual trip report...

Mark R
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Brains on May 20, 2016, 12:57:05 pm
I seem to remember tales of the nearby Nettle Pot being dug by dangling headfirst on a rope and pulling out handfulls of red deer bones. I am guessing they would be old. If you are finding deer bones in the dig could that indicate you are through the infil of recent times and into older deposits? Would you recognise mammoth, wooly rhino, hyena or other ice age remains when they begin to turn up? It all sounds very interesting and positive!  ;D
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on May 20, 2016, 01:41:45 pm
...We exited some time after 10 having collected some footage for an unusual trip report...

Yes, we assisted our friend Mr S Pole with recording his first ever trip into a cave, and here it is:

!Enjoy! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJEORsZTaso)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: adam on May 20, 2016, 01:55:53 pm
Just some comments of a biological nature:

A_Northerner, I think they are called candlestick fungus or stag's horn fungus (Xylaria hypoxylon). They seem to be quite common on wood in caves/mines, in fact I don't think I've ever seen them above ground.

Mark_R, regarding the bones, were no more ocelot bones found? Our discovery of ocelot bones in Eldon is very exciting and certainly raises some interesting paleoecological questions.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Badlad on May 20, 2016, 01:56:56 pm
Excellent - what a great perspective.  Although I did feel sorry for poor Mr Pole.  Never to see the light of day again..  :(
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: bograt on May 20, 2016, 02:04:37 pm
 :lol: :lol: :lol:, Love the soundtrack  :lol: :lol  :thumbsup
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: cavermark on May 20, 2016, 02:27:40 pm
We had a bone from Crem pot identified by the University as Wild Boar - not seen many of them roaming around for a while...
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: bograt on May 20, 2016, 02:36:40 pm
We had a bone from Crem pot identified by the University as Wild Boar - not seen many of them roaming around for a while...

Had some on our farm for a while, lovely meat, but a b*stard to look after -----!!!.

Methinks some of these bones could do with identifying and dating, it may be that they date from before the earliest exploration period, which would mean virgin territory! ---.

For instance, I don't think Ocelots have been around since the start of farming in that area?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Brains on May 20, 2016, 02:59:31 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Boyd_Dawkins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Boyd_Dawkins)

Hints at some stunning finds you may need to watch for - if the died in Windy Knoll, they could well be down Eldon?

Quote
...and Windy Knoll near Castleton. At Windy Knoll (NGR SK126830), he proved the existence of exotic animals that lived in England prior to the ice ages. With Rooke Pennington and J. Tym, he discovered bones from bison, cave hyena, cave bear and a large cat, possibly a relative of the sabre tooth tiger. The bison bones were more recently dated at 37 300bp (OxA – 4579).

Suppose it also depends at what date the shaft became unroofed? Any guesses?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: AR on May 20, 2016, 03:11:07 pm
If you do think that the bones starting to emerge may not be modern domestic animals but the ice age wild fauna found in other caves nearby, I'd suggest getting in touch with Andrew Chamberlain?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on May 20, 2016, 03:42:44 pm
Or you could Invite some members of the YSS down? pretty sure that one of them is an Archaeologist... (Nigel Steel) http://www.digventures.com/under-the-uplands/ddt/micro_view.php?item_key=abk_cd&abk_cd=LA_73 (http://www.digventures.com/under-the-uplands/ddt/micro_view.php?item_key=abk_cd&abk_cd=LA_73)

http://digventures.com/under-the-uplands/background/yorkshires-hidden-archaeology/ (http://digventures.com/under-the-uplands/background/yorkshires-hidden-archaeology/)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Born again caver on May 23, 2016, 05:17:59 pm
I would be interested in having a look at the bones you have found, was the chamber open to the air at some point, if so could be a pitfall trap. Could you photograph the bones insitu and bag them up I can give them a clean and the 'once over'. I would like to see the place of deposition at some point if that is possible.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on May 23, 2016, 08:13:11 pm
I'll bring them out on Thursday night.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Born again caver on May 27, 2016, 03:43:01 pm
Great stuff, I shall try and head down to Derbyshire next week.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on June 03, 2016, 12:40:20 am
Mark Richardson, TomTom, Tommy (SUSS) and me down there this evening for another successful trip. No downward progress but the next dogleg is coming along nicely. A good few buckets were hauled out as well as the bone samples discovered on the previous trip.

Determined not to miss the pub this week we were all on the surface by 10.30 only to find the Devonshire closed. We went to the Red Lion in Litton instead and caught the last few stragglers from the Eldon PC monthly meeting.

No weekend trip this week as most of the Badgers are away but we will be down there next Thursday evening if anyone would like to join us. 7pm at the Eldon Hole car park.   

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on June 03, 2016, 12:35:38 pm
Posted the bone photos as high res as I could here.... http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=401:bottled-bones&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58 (http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=401:bottled-bones&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58)
(http://www.butteredbadger.com/images/gallery/peak_district/bones.jpg)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Badlad on June 03, 2016, 04:24:59 pm
There's a few bits there that look like the aftermath of a chicken dinner.  ;D
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on June 03, 2016, 06:49:52 pm
Is it possible that top piece might be a boar tusk?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: bograt on June 03, 2016, 07:08:19 pm
Is it possible that top piece might be a boar tusk?

Don't think so, not curved enough.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: AR on June 03, 2016, 09:07:38 pm
I think it's another bit of cow horn; compare the texturing with the large piece and they look similar.

At least some of those bones are from a large bird (corvid, perhaps?) - the cranium, beak and breastbone are there and I think some of the other smaller bones belong to the same skeleton.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on June 10, 2016, 12:55:12 am
Pete O'Neill, Ivor and me had another good session down Eldon Hole this evening.

We cleared the large pile of rubble we had dumped at the bottom of the original shaft and then proceeded to make another pile of rubble in its place. The current bottom is now cleared ready for some more scaffolding. We just about cleared the bottom of the original shaft a second time but the 'Pub' alarm went off and we just made last orders in the Devonshire.

The West route now has an additional re-belay (3rd of 5) to help split the pitch up for speedier evening 'Last Orders' exits.

I did notice the fixed rope is starting to show signs of heavy wear in one particular spot between the 2nd and 3rd re-belays. I will hopefully change this out next Thursday evening.

No draught tonight.

Mark 
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: bograt on June 10, 2016, 01:05:49 am

No draught tonight.

Mark

Hmmm, 'neutral' ambient conditions or have you bunged up the hole?? ;)

Was it noticeably warmer in the chamber?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on June 10, 2016, 01:20:32 am
It is quite muddy at the very bottom so it could well have bunged up any holes. It was doing that a lot about 3m above where we are now.

I can't say as I noticed it being warmer in the chamber but we did get straight into hauling buckets and we soon had a dab on.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: bograt on June 10, 2016, 01:42:01 am
Thanks for the quick response Mark, I was thinking it has been rather warm locally, and if the chamber temperature had risen significantly, it might have had an effect.

Re; The rope: I suspect the usage has been well recorded, maybe Bob Mayhew (or someone else?) would find it useful for rig tests? this kind of information could be very informative?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on June 10, 2016, 02:42:54 pm
You could probably weigh that rope in for the Aluminium ;)

But good work guys - I may try and lend a hand again soon if our big hole will let me.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on June 17, 2016, 12:27:16 am
Mark Richardson, Ivor and me down Eldon Hole again tonight. A good session of digging and scaffolding finished off with a pint in the Cheshire Cheese in Castleton. The West route is now re-rigged with a newish length of 11mm. You still need to take a short length (15m) and a carabiner for the first re-belay to get you down to where the permanent rope starts.

There will be the usual trip down there next Thursday and the Badgers are planning a big session over the weekend of the 25th and 26th June. More work on stabilising the entrance will be carried out over that weekend as well so if anyone would like to do their bit and help the project it will be a 10am start on both days. I'd love to help but I'm off to Glastonbury Festival on Sunday for 9 days.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on June 27, 2016, 09:10:00 pm
You're about to be spoilt! Here's Thursdays report with Sundays soon to follow I imagine.



Ivor, Mark R, TomTom

23/06/16


 
Whilst the country was having its EU vote on whether to cut off its nose to spite its face a small contingent of badgers headed off to do some twilight caving. Tonight's dig was to be a little different with some more work to be carried out on the entrance squeeze shafting. Surprisingly there was nothing to carry across the field today, but then some kind soul had left us a tackle bag of scaff clips at the top.
 
The newly rigged pitch is much less squeaky through my stops and after 60 or so metres I was at tonight's dig. Unfortunately we needed supplies though so we had to bottom the main dig to bring some poles and capping rods back.
 
It’s a little odd digging the entrance squeeze in summer, it’s more or less light enough to do without a head torch, but alas. Mark and Ivor started the night by trying to go all 127 hours on me with an oversized boulder. After getting it wedged in all sorts of positions they relented and broke out the capping gear. The good part about digging here is that we can just let the spoil fall into the main chamber, it rolls away from the dig and ends up at the dig spoil heap anyway.
 
We slowly ate away at the bank that makes up the squeeze, pulling out rocks and iron ladders alike. Through some faith in friction/gravity we managed to vaguely secure the slope enough to get two new rings in, really starting to open up what was once a slimy squeeze.
 
We did have a brief pause where we attempted to annihilate the dig by rolling a mammoth boulder down onto it, but this just helped to secure the scaffolding in place, holding the boards so voids can’t form behind.
 
All in all a very successful night, with no hauling required the three of us could all find jobs to do, leaving this new shaft looking pretty good. With another group having a go on Sunday this should make getting people and supplies into the main chamber much easier.
 
 
TomTom
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on June 27, 2016, 10:29:45 pm
Fantastic work - well done folks.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Over the Hill on June 28, 2016, 02:21:02 pm
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Frodo on June 29, 2016, 10:19:57 pm
The weekends trip report.

A Jolly Good Shafting.

Mark R, Chris H, Mark S
25th & 26th June 2016

Saturday morning saw us driving to Rowter Farm. We stopped briefly at Peveril stores to pick up breakfast where I was told that they had run out of subs to put my meat feast in and subsequently asked if it would be alright if they put all the meat in a roll instead. We parked up in the Rowter Farm field surrounded by campers. Opened our sandwiches and started to eat. Before long the consequences of an Atkins diet sandwich were being felt. Extreme thirst from the 6 extra thick salty bacon rashers being one of them and I’m no stranger to the problems of potassium salts after excess sausage consumption.

We sat trying to digest and looked at one another pondering our trip to the Party Sausage for a poke around and some photographs. It was a long way to go for some photos. A trip that needed doing but maybe not today. That was it, decision made. We’d go and drop of the materials at Eldon instead so we could make progress tomorrow.
Having filled the van earlier in the morning with much wood and scaffolding we departed the farm and headed toward Eldon instead. The sun shining we started the walk up the hill with some boards. This process continued, turning into a less than enjoyable shoulder bruising slog as we completed several trips back and forth with kit.  In total we dropped off 14 scaffolding poles,  17 boards and some rope.

Next up we headed off to get some more supplies, new hack saw blades and some stainless steel pins. Ate more meat at Swanky Franks and suffered some truly awful customer service at the cinema.

Sunday morning arrived all too quickly and we departed to fuel up at the Yonderman Café (with some yet again ‘fantastic’ service) via a quick stop for another dozen scaffolding tubes and another stack of boards. Once at Eldon we did a quick run up the hill with some kit then changed at the van by which time Mark Sims had joined us from York. We spent the first hour or more lowering all the supplies in two uneven batches. The second being by far the biggest and lowered with much haste. I took shelter in the shaft while it landed and popped up to find a car crash of poles and boards strung together with rope.

I was surprised by the considerable change to the entrance since my last visit. It used to be a squalid stoop/crawl past rusty corrugate, squashed milk churns and the biodegrading remains of several hundred years worth of dead sheep, frogs, crows and whatever else had been misfortunate enough to fall into Eldon. Now it had the top section of a shaft, a lot of mud and a hole that looked a lot tidier and slightly less liable to collapse.

We made rapid progress digging out the loosely consolidated mud and rock ready to put the next ring of scaffolding in. Placing a ring was more or less a one man job so whilst Mark R installed it Mark S and I got to work either shifting mud and rock further down the slope or cutting boards/scaffolding, passing clips/tools etc. We then moved some more rock and mud and I had a go installing the next ring. The new Makita drill courtesy of UKCaving (Thanks Jane and Tim) made short work of the pin holes.
Before the ring could be installed we needed to remove a crushed steel milk churn/drum which was wedged between a larger boulder and the overhanging wall.

As we’d been digging down, a lot of material was falling out from behind the boards and making things unstable. Mark unwedged the milk churn at which point the large boulder also started to move. It didn’t look good. We quickly moved to wedge whatever short ends of scaff we had lying around into place to stop an Indiana Jones situation occurring where we’d find ourselves running/squeezing down the slope out of the way of the boulder. This gave us a few more minutes to come  up with a plan. One which involved Makita, several steel pins and a lot more scaffolding.

We finally got the ring in place, boards hammered in and some semblance of stability. Another ring went in and we created a step down under the overhanging section of wall.
Mark S then set about attaching our two remaining long sections of scaff to the wall to give us some more horizontal stability before we dig down for the next step and ring.
After about 7 or 8 hours underground we were pretty much out of materials. From all the kit that had been taken down plus what was already there we were now down to 2 scaff poles and 4 boards. The sacks of clips were also looking somewhat sparse.

All in all a great days digging even though its progress into the known it’ll make access for all a lot more enjoyable. It’s amazing how much just three of us could get done in one day, each of us taking it in turns to have a go at everything.

It is still very much a work in progress and will be continued on Thursday so as usual if you are wanting to take a look please use caution.

Chris

Photos in the original on our website - http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=405:a-jolly-good-shafting&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58 (http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=405:a-jolly-good-shafting&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Goydenman on June 29, 2016, 11:19:04 pm
a lot achieved well done. You are getting through a lot of equipment must be getting to be a costly business but worth it eh
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on July 01, 2016, 01:21:52 pm
30/06/16

Tom Tom, Ivor D, Mark R

 

Task 1 was to carry the final remaining few poles in our stock to the dig- easy peasy.

Task 2  was measure the total dig depth- easy again.. 14m

Task 3- we spent quite a while packing rock behind boards in the dig shaft where rings had previously slipped down. Dry stone walling expert Ivor attended to that whilst Tom did some 'stuff' at the top.

Task 4 was to haul the temporarily stockpiled rubble from the mid level shelf to the top and dispose of it. I hauled and filled buckets at the bottom, tom hauled from the top and Ivor emptied.It was so nice to be back to hauling rock out accompanied by the tortured scream of the pulley wheel :)

Once all of that was done, we left for the pub.. and for once managed to get there in time!! It was nice to get everything ready for the next dig. We will definitely be needing more tubes and boards very soon though!

 

Mark R
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: TomTom on July 27, 2016, 12:38:07 pm
Better late than never :)

The Pigeon Carrier - http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=407:the-pigeon-carrier&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58 (http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=407:the-pigeon-carrier&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58)


Ivor, Mark R, TomTom
 
14/07/16

This report has been written a little late so apologies for vagueness. We rigged the north and west route into Eldon and slid on down in the evening sunshine, heading for the main dig this evening. Mark started at the dig face clearing out some spoil to get another ring in, with me hauling out some rubble and Ivor had the glamorous job of cutting the scaff poles to length.
 
It didn’t take long to clear enough space to get the ring in, with the shaft still sinking vertically in order to give us the room we need to go diagonally again. The floor was fairly loose small rocks to start, but water does dribble down there so some of it was pretty gunky.
 
Once the ring was fitted we had a bit of a swap around, I headed to dig the floor whilst Mark hauled and Ivor got to once again show off his dry stone walling techniques, stacking the spoil at the first dogleg. The digging was fairly easy going, it wasn’t lovely dry large rocks but not too much required crow bar encouragement.
 
No one had a watch on so I have no idea how long we went on for, but we seemed to make a fair dint in the floor, I’d like to say we lowered the floor by half a metre, with the shaft being fairly wide at the moment as we prepare for a diagonal. One corner was fairly glued together by the trickle of water but otherwise the floor felt good. Still feels very fresh down there so that’s a positive.
 
Eventually we decided it was probably late and so headed for the exit. At the bottom of the entrance shaft we found a young pigeon, it was sat in a bucket absolutely exhausted and with no chance of being able to climb hard enough to fly out. This is not the first time we’ve had to rescue birds from the base of the shaft, with our last rescue being almost exactly a year ago,
 
http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=357:international-rescue&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58 (http://www.butteredbadger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=357:international-rescue&catid=45:eldon-dig-reports&Itemid=58)
 
This time Mark had the duty of carrying the bird in his tackle sack, and we slowly made our way out. The bird seemed a little more spritely once we were at the surface and had rewarded Mark by leaving a deposit. We released it into a dry stone wall by the woods and who knows. We may have once against simply fed a fox, but whatever happens its better than another rotting corpse at the bottom of the shaft.
 
TomTom
 
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on November 02, 2016, 11:57:51 pm
Due to one thing and another, summer expeditions, Mark R. moving house and laziness on my part, its been a good few months since anyone has been in the dig or done any more work on the entrance stabilisation.

We tried and failed to get things moving again last Wednesday but tonight we succeeded. The Eldon Hole project is officially underway again.

Mark Richardson, TomTom and me were down there tonight and managed to pull out a good few bucket loads from the sharp end. No draught tonight. We measured up for the next (and hopefully final) dogleg and next Wednesday evening should see a dozen scaffold tubes clanging their way down the entrance shaft and into the dig.

We will be meeting at 7pm every Wednesday at the top of Eldon Lane if anyone would like to join us. Bring an extra descender to make it easier to get through the re-belays with a couple of 2m tubes dangling underneath you.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark on November 03, 2016, 06:55:24 am
Good to see that this one is up and running again, good effort chaps
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: ANN on November 10, 2016, 01:59:29 pm
 :clap2:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Goydenman on November 10, 2016, 02:55:08 pm
Great to hear you are back at this exciting dig - hope it progresses well for you
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on November 24, 2016, 09:51:10 am
With most of the regulars coming up with feeble excuses to get out of the trip it left Mark Richardson and me to ferry 3 loads, (about 30m) of scaffolding to the entrance and then clang our way down the shaft with over 65kg dangling underneath us both.

All the tubes are now in the dig and ready for pushing ever downwards next week.

Mark


 
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on November 24, 2016, 04:51:55 pm
Excellent work - I wish I could help more often, but we've really got our hands full at the moment too. And we're not letting winter delay our schedules either - not yet, anyway.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on December 02, 2016, 12:15:08 am
Another successful trip tonight with just Mark Richardson and me. Next ring installed and 10 tubes installed about half way into the next diagonal roof section. A bit of a draught was noticed but we were both very sure we could here flowing water somewhere in the distance.

Due to work commitments the next trip is planned for 10.30am on Sunday 11th. We already have a few booked in to help but there is plenty of work to do if anyone else would like to join us in the dig, re-rigging the North and West entrance pitches with new rope and doing a bit more work stabilising the entrance crawl into the main chamber. 

Mark

Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: ianball11 on December 02, 2016, 12:20:04 am
That must be an encouraging noise!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Goydenman on December 03, 2016, 08:31:23 am
That must be an encouraging noise!

Indeed.....good to hear of more work being done
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on December 11, 2016, 10:24:01 pm
Big team of Badgers and York Uni down today. Mark R., Mark S., Adam W., Will S., Andy H., Ivor and me. After a full English in Yonderman's Cafe we had a good 5 hour session pulling out many many buckets of rubble (we lost count after 2 buckets).

With 3 at the bottom and 3 at the top we made light work of the hauling. With the number of doglegs in the shaft it really needs this size of team to make any real progress so if anyone would like to help out on our midweek trips it would be greatly appreciated. I'll post on here when we know when we are going next week.

Ivor arrived about half an hour after the rest of the team and so continued the stabilisation work. The sound of his rubble trundling down the slope in the dig a little worrying at times. Its looking a lot better for it and I didn't even have to put my knees down coming through the connection on the way out.

More scaffolding needs to be going in there next as the floor is another metre deeper. We must get round to measuring it again but we must be 15m deep. Can't be far to go now, I keep telling myself.

Everybody positioned at the top and half way down the shaft could feel a strong draught but there was nothing noticeable at the dig face. There is a lot of mud around though to fill all the gaps. None of us heard the river today but we did have the stereo blaring out all afternoon.

We finished off with a pint of Moonshine in the Cheshire Cheese in Castleton.

It was a good effort from the others in the team who had done a 10 hour trip installing 30 odd P bolts at the far end of Rowter Hole the day before.  I'll let the other Marks report on that one.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on December 16, 2016, 12:11:50 am
A good digging session tonight saw a fair few buckets out of the sharp end. Mark Richardson and me were joined by ULSA members George, Rob, Typhon and Kristian.

Although there was no draught noticeable in the actual dig, when stood about 4m above it the draught was howling up the shaft and got increasingly stronger as the night went on, the strongest I've noticed down there.

We had some big rocks coming out tonight, it could be a sign.

The night was nicely finished off with a pint of Moonshine in the Cheshire Cheese in Castleton.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: braveduck on December 21, 2016, 08:16:55 pm
If you need any new buckets or Rock nets give me a shout ! ;D
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on February 10, 2017, 05:37:14 pm
Firstly, many thanks to ah147 for supplying the Eldon Hole digging project with a further supply of scaffolding.

Mark Richardson, Mike Yaxley (on his first ever SRT trip) and me put it to good use last night by partly installing the next scaffold ring. We did some capping and part hauled the rubble up the shaft which had an excellent draught.

All set for another session next Wednesday evening (7pm) if anyone would like to join us.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on February 11, 2017, 07:41:32 pm
Following a telephone call from Pete O'Neil on Friday night, I joined a team of DCC cavers for a trip down Eldon Hole today, although the snowy conditions on the surface almost stopped us driving up Eldon Lane.

After the DCC members had been up to see the Sword of Damocles we hauled all the rubble we left at the bottom of the dig shaft and re-rigged the West route with new rope, it needed it.

An excellent trip finished off nicely with a pint in the Wanted Inn.

Next trip on Wednesday evening.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mike Wood on February 12, 2017, 11:16:16 am
Nice one - good to see your reports, you'll crack it this year  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Tangent_tracker on February 12, 2017, 09:56:57 pm
Following a telephone call from Pete O'Neil on Friday night, I joined a team of DCC cavers for a trip down Eldon Hole today, although the snowy conditions on the surface almost stopped us driving up Eldon Lane.

After the DCC members had been up to see the Sword of Damocles we hauled all the rubble we left at the bottom of the dig shaft and re-rigged the West route with new rope, it needed it.

An excellent trip finished off nicely with a pint in the Wanted Inn.

Next trip on Wednesday evening.

Great trip Mark, what time you meeting on Wednesday?

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on February 12, 2017, 10:07:11 pm
Olly,

7pm on Wednesday evening at the top of Eldon Lane. Or at least as far up the lane as the snow will allow.

It'll be good to see you and anybody else who would like to join us.

Mark

Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Tangent_tracker on February 16, 2017, 03:10:59 pm
Olly,

7pm on Wednesday evening at the top of Eldon Lane. Or at least as far up the lane as the snow will allow.

It'll be good to see you and anybody else who would like to join us.

Mark

What happened :-p
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: MJenkinson on February 16, 2017, 03:21:43 pm
Floor of the dig gave away underneath them and they are all alive and well, rattling around the new Sarawak chamber.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on February 16, 2017, 03:25:33 pm
What happened :-p

Sorry.

We WILL be there on Sunday, meeting at Yondermans Cafe at 10am and up Eldon Lane soon after.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on February 19, 2017, 08:19:05 pm
What happened :-p

Sorry.

We WILL be there on Sunday, meeting at Yondermans Cafe at 10am and up Eldon Lane soon after.

Mark

And we were there.

Big team of Mark W., Mark R., Mark S.,  Adam, Toby & Ivor.

A good 0.6m deeper after todays session. We couldn't hear any big rivers but we had a pretty strong draught coming out of the dig floor, getting stronger as the day went on. None of us had noticed it this strong before. It could be a sign.

Mark R. went home early complaining the sharp end diggers weren't filling the buckets up quick enough.

Thanks to Henry R. for meeting us in the Devonshire afterwards to drop off a couple of bags of scaffold clips for the project.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: MarkS on February 20, 2017, 08:45:29 am
It was certainly the strongest consistent draught I've felt there. Even Adam, our resident Eldon skeptic ("what are we hoping to achieve here?"), was making positive comments by the end of the day.    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Tangent_tracker on February 20, 2017, 01:34:54 pm
What happened :-p

Sorry.

We WILL be there on Sunday, meeting at Yondermans Cafe at 10am and up Eldon Lane soon after.

Mark

And we were there.

Big team of Mark W., Mark R., Mark S.,  Adam, Toby & Ivor.

A good 0.6m deeper after todays session. We couldn't hear any big rivers but we had a pretty strong draught coming out of the dig floor, getting stronger as the day went on. None of us had noticed it this strong before. It could be a sign.

Mark R. went home early complaining the sharp end diggers weren't filling the buckets up quick enough.

Thanks to Henry R. for meeting us in the Devonshire afterwards to drop off a couple of bags of scaffold clips for the project.

Mark

Mark if you are going to meet on a Wednesday give me a shout. Thursdays are out for the next 7 weeks as I am having swimming lessons..
Will send you my number :-)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on February 21, 2017, 12:51:46 pm
We were going to go this Wednesday but im now working away wednesday afternoon so wont be there.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: owd git on February 21, 2017, 04:06:47 pm
Hi all. what price are you paying for scaff' clips? only, I can get them for £1 ea. any type here in Matlock. shout if you want to take up offer :thumbsup:
O.G.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on February 21, 2017, 08:27:44 pm
Thanks for the offer owd git but we pay £1.00 (cash) for them as well from the main scaffold supplier in Sheffield.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: owd git on February 21, 2017, 10:45:08 pm
I now feel obliged to help in another way. :lol:
Ooops!  :wall:  :wall:  :wall:
Ric'.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on February 21, 2017, 10:53:50 pm
Lovely new 11mm ropes down the West route and you don't have to get down on your knees to get to the top of the hauling line.

Shall we see you down there?

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Trogladite on February 22, 2017, 10:02:09 am
Hi to all the Eldon Hole Diggers, ;D
I have not been on this site for many,many months.  In my old age memory lapses are common & frequent.
Have enjoyed reading about your efforts to reach the "Hidden and elusive River and Lake".
The last time I was down E.H. was in the early 1950's. I now live in South Africa by the Indian Ocean and haven't seen a cave in many years. Eldon Hole has always been a fascination to me and I hope you eventually
break through and continue on down in to the Peak Cavern/ Giants/Speedwell system.
Good luck from an old Derbyshire caver.
Be careful I'm watching you, from Darkest Africa, where Lions walk the streets at night. and some of them carry AK47's, Hi.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: ianball11 on February 22, 2017, 03:38:09 pm
Wow!  60 years ago, I thought it had been a while since I was up at Eldon, in the early 2000s.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Over the Hill on March 10, 2017, 05:56:18 pm
Last time I was in the Eldon as in NCCC with the Eldon PC must be 45 years ago and there was a snow plug in Summer at the bottom. How is that decent and exit as I would love to wander down this Spring and pull out a bucket full for old times sake.  Or would that be trolling.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on March 20, 2017, 10:54:01 am
We had another good session at the dig face yesterday. Mark R, Mark S, Adam P and me finally got the next section of roof completed and installed a fair bit more scaffolding. There was a howling draught blowing out of the dig floor, getting stronger as we hauled more and more buckets out of the bottom.

It shouldn't be long now.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Colin_W on March 20, 2017, 11:01:54 am
Amazing! 

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Madness on March 20, 2017, 12:36:18 pm
Be careful the remaining fill doesn't suddenly fall away beneath you.

Anyway, well done and good luck.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Goydenman on March 20, 2017, 12:38:49 pm
A really promising sign....well done guys and yes be careful. Can't wait to hear about the next few trips
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on March 20, 2017, 01:05:26 pm
Be careful the remaining fill doesn't suddenly fall away beneath you.

Anyway, well done and good luck.

We did have such a discussion yesterday.

We will be very careful.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Big Jim on March 20, 2017, 01:42:10 pm
If this gets any more exciting, a bit of wee might escape  :o  Keep going Badgers.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Brains on March 20, 2017, 03:58:48 pm
Sounds very promising - will have to dust off my SRT kit!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: martinb on March 20, 2017, 07:31:23 pm
If this gets any more exciting, a bit of wee might escape  :o  Keep going Badgers.

 :lol: :lol:

Great work guys!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: MarkS on April 03, 2017, 01:24:53 pm
02/04/17 Mark S, Toby, Rachel, Adam W, Mike

The majority of Marks were absent for this one, so I was the sole representative. A rare situation down Eldon. Today's team consisted entirely of current and ex- York University CPC cavers, and two more would have been amongst our ranks had a mysterious decorating deadline not been looming. For the rest of us, the impending Eldon breakthrough deadline was our top priority.

Blue skies and warm sunshine greeted us at Eldon lane. Rachel, Toby and I munched our way through the ever-tasty Peveril Stores sandwiches picked up en-route through Castleton, and the Walmslers Waggon soon arrived replete with brioche covering most of the dashboard. The pleasant weather made for a leisurely change, and we enjoyed a rare unladen walk over without the burden of clips, poles or boards.

Toby and I were first down to the bottom, and we knew that dogleg Mk.3 was going to have to be installed fairly early on. We measured and chopped the poles for the next roof while the others cleared the ledge, accompanied by music from Adam's chunky speakers. A Bluetooth sound system is certainly the sign of a good dig. The problem is, the dig is now so deep that you can't hear the music at all from the bottom! It wasn't long at all before the ledge was clear and the poles cut, so we shuffled around and made the most of having 5 people present by hauling bucket after bucket from the bottom.

Having made sufficient downward progress the others paused for some lunch while Mike and I installed the cut poles for the new roof and drove them in a short way. A large boulder in the direction we were heading clearly needed removing, and fell out of the wall with little persuasion. There was scepticism about what we could do with this monster without our usual capping gear, but plenty of brute force saw it up most of the shaft, and a person-counterweight got it over the lip at the top.

The afternoon consisted of more music, more hauling, and more progress. The cool draught was again with us from start to finish, and during the last digging shift of the day, we seemed to be leaving behind our layer of claggy mud and gravel, and larger clean blocks were coming out from below. Even more pleasingly, the wall we're following was just giving the impression of undercutting at the limit of what I could see. A solid roof would be a real luxury!

After we reconvened at the top, Toby offered round the BeanBoozled he'd brought with him. I got away with popcorn flavour, but after Toby had tucked into a baby-wipe flavoured one, enthusiasm for them seemed to dwindle. At this point Rachel reminded me that I'd brought my camera with me and hadn't taken any photos. Whoops. While the first two headed out of the shaft, I took a few rushed pictures of the dig before we made a quick exit under the still-blue sky just after 6 pm.

Everyone was feeling optimistic after our day's digging. Importantly it's still perfectly possible to dig at the bottom and haul to the top with a team of 4, so further progress should be steady. I can't wait for the next one.

Photos to follow...
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Goydenman on April 03, 2017, 04:48:54 pm
Thanks for the update - sounds like a productive session
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: MarkS on April 04, 2017, 09:11:33 am
As promised, here are a few photos. I've attached lower quality versions as well in case the link URLs change in future.

(http://www.butteredbadger.com/images/gallery/dsc03221a.jpg)
Looking down the upper section of the shaft.

(http://www.butteredbadger.com/images/gallery/dsc03232a.jpg)
Rachel on the swing over the bottom section of the shaft.

(http://www.butteredbadger.com/images/gallery/dsc03243a.jpg)
Meet the new roof, same as the old roof. Adam models our favourite crowbar.

(http://www.butteredbadger.com/images/gallery/dsc03250a.jpg)
A sunny exit.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: MJenkinson on April 04, 2017, 09:15:31 am
Wow. That's some progress since I last looked down there!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark on April 04, 2017, 05:57:47 pm
Nice one folks, hope it goes somewhere
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Antwan on April 04, 2017, 08:50:54 pm
I offered a three section aluminum ladder to this dig a while ago to someone (cant remember who), anyway, never got around to arranging a drop off so the offer is still here?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on April 04, 2017, 09:11:23 pm
Antwan,

We would like to take you up on that offer of a 3 section ladder, it will be very useful. PM me and we will try and arrange the handover.

Cheers,

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Roger W on April 05, 2017, 02:38:06 am
Has Madphil got one of the sections?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: cavefinder on April 08, 2017, 04:25:44 pm
That's a great job. Some serious scaffolding there, certainly a safe working space . It's always a great idea to leave the dig with a visible void or a distinctive draught so that you have something to encourage a quick return. When you have a winch installed let me know as at my age I don't do SRT anymore.
                                                              :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: MarkS on April 19, 2017, 12:02:49 pm
16/04/17

Mark S, Toby, Adam W, Cat, Andy V, Ivor

Enthusiasm and optimism were in abundance after our last dig: our steady draught had been with us throughout, we'd successfully started the new roof section, and the floor looked to be getting looser beneath us. It's always a dangerous game heading to a dig with high expectations.

We had a team of six on Easter Sunday, including the first visit to the dig for Cat and Andy. In typical fashion a large enthusiastic team coincided with a requirement to spend some time scaffolding. This meant that feeling somewhat out of my depth, I had to step into the sizeable shoes of our chief scaffolding consultant. Size twelves I think. After some pondering we sent up an order for a few bespoke pole lengths to extend the new roof the to the full width of the shaft, and we installed some much needed support at the corner of the roof, pinned (we hope) to a solid piece of wall.

After an hour or so, we were in a position to get going, and we sent the dig-newcomers to the bottom. Buckets came up thick and fast as the shaft continued its downward progress. Aching limbs ensued for those of us that had just spent two days hauling the huge metal tub out of alum, so we decided not to finish too late to ensure we still had strength for digging again the next day.

Sadly the hint of an undercut of the wall we are following failed to translate to reality, but the draught is still ever-blowing.

Onwards and downwards...
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on April 19, 2017, 12:55:14 pm
17/04/17

Mark W, Mark S, Mark R, Adam, Cat, Andy, TomTom, Tim Allen.

After a Full English at the Yonderman Cafe the team headed up Eldon Lane for the second digging trip of the weekend. The first job was getting all the additional scaffold tubes roped up ready for taking down the shaft. The second job was me getting out of carrying any of them up the hill. Instead I was given a tackle bag by Mark R to carry up, not realising it contained a large bag of scaffold fittings that were just as heavy as the tubes. I should have known better.

With the team and equipment in the Main Chamber we wasted no time in inspecting the work carried out the previous day. Most impressive. The bottom of the shaft was certainly looking good with the strong draught blowing as strong as ever.

Everyone was kept busy either loading buckets, hauling, emptying buckets or cutting and fitting new scaffold tubes and it wasn't long before we had reached a depth from the floor of the Main Chamber of 15.1m, we finally got round to measuring it.

Tim Allen arrived around lunchtime to lend a hand and more bucket loads were hauled out during the afternoon session, including a brief photographic session led by Mark R. He will hopefully post some of the photographs on here shortly.

The base of the shaft is now looking very interesting with some very large calcited boulders in the floor. Could these be the second shaft capping stones?

Who knows, but we'd like to think so.

It was good having a second opinion from Tim who thought the dig face was looking very promising. We were all ready for calling it a day around 3pm but Tim insisted on us digging for another hour before retiring to the Devonshire Arms for a well deserved pint.

Can't wait for the next trip.

Mark

       

 


Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on April 19, 2017, 01:04:58 pm
Sounds good. Are you deeper than the older dig now?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on April 19, 2017, 02:09:04 pm
Sounds good. Are you deeper than the older dig now?

I can't remember how deep the original dig was but we are probably a couple of metres below the bottom of the original dig.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on April 19, 2017, 02:21:21 pm
Nice. Has there been anything left of the old one, are you digging down through the remains of the old one or going somewhere new?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on April 19, 2017, 02:39:05 pm
The constriction is at the level we are currently at. It was an awkward squeeze you had to go through to reach the bottom of the original dig. Its not there any more and it wont be long before all traces of the original dig are gone.


Rough sketch I made at the time of our original dig, showing the awkward constriction....

([url]http://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7790/18161077015_e0e2432833_b.jpg[/url])

Jase

Here is a sketch of the original dig. Our dig goes straight down between F and D with a few doglegs going off to the left of the sketch.

If you want to get a better feel for the dig, come along and join us.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on April 19, 2017, 02:45:57 pm
OK thanks. I am keen to dig but I've got problems with a trapped nerve in the back which seems to go off randomly so don't want to risk it until I've had a long time without it being a problem.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on April 24, 2017, 12:33:30 pm
On Sunday 23rd, 7 people went funderground to the dig.
We spent several hours pulling rubble out of the bottom, mainly concentrating on the sides and corners. There was a lot of scaffolidng work to do and as ever, when thats the case there was loads more digging to do to facilitate the new installation than initially thought.
We left the dig with a completed lower roof, roof supports and the start of the next vertical section in place and levelled up.
There was a draught all day and we left everything looking good for the next trip. No extra depth though to talk of.
One interesting thing that did turn up was a tooth- we have had several very large teeth so far that look like horse or cow but this was the first one that looks carniverous. Hopefully Adam will post a photo. 

Thanks for the help from the Ario Team- Stuart, Sarah, Steve and Claire.
Also present were myself, Mark S and Adam W.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Goydenman on April 24, 2017, 01:04:01 pm
Sounds like a very productive session and should be good to push on next trip.......great to get reports thanks
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: adam on April 24, 2017, 03:47:22 pm
Current theory is that this belonged to a 'super badger' (http://tinyurl.com/oummkxo (http://tinyurl.com/oummkxo)), however we welcome other suggestions from more qualified individuals.

(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o479/adamwalmsley/20170424_123827.jpg)

(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o479/adamwalmsley/20170424_123745.jpg)

p.s. I have tried and tried and tried to upload these in the right orientation but technology conspires against me
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: numb7rs on April 24, 2017, 05:21:10 pm
Did you have a license for the removal of that badger tooth?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Fulk on April 24, 2017, 06:28:36 pm
Maybe he's a vet.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: adam on April 24, 2017, 06:38:13 pm
Yep, got my license. £2 from Doggy Market. Bargain madness.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: AR on April 24, 2017, 09:02:58 pm
Could well be badger, I'll try and remember to mention this to Andrew Chamberlain if he's at the UCF meeting on Wednesday.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on April 24, 2017, 09:21:55 pm
If it turns out to be a badger... it's definitely a sign.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Pegasus on April 24, 2017, 09:22:04 pm
Posted on the UKC facebook page today:

http://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/community/identification/teeth-bones?fromGateway=true (http://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/community/identification/teeth-bones?fromGateway=true)

Oh please let it be a badger's tooth - the irony  ;D
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: adam on April 24, 2017, 09:52:39 pm
Already posted there Pegasus  :), just awaiting moderator approval. They must get a lot more ruffians on their forum than UKC  :lol:
I notice my photos have righted themselves. All's well that ends well.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on April 24, 2017, 10:04:05 pm
click the link adam ^, I don't think you need moderator approval to use the internet  :o
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on April 25, 2017, 06:23:59 pm
Back tonight to look for the rest of the skeleton!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mrs Trellis on April 25, 2017, 10:08:22 pm
A vitnery friend says it could be fox or small dog.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: braveduck on April 25, 2017, 11:32:49 pm
Hen's teeth!Its from the hen that was thrown down and emerged at Peak Cavern with singed feathers! ;D
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: owd git on April 26, 2017, 08:42:09 am
Badger,
 I pulled one identicle from an ex- Badger in 1989 in the middle of Earlswood junction as an S&T teck' and made an ear-ring of it. (we knew all about style in them days!) I'll see if there'sa photo of it. :lol:
O.G.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: MarkS on April 26, 2017, 08:49:04 am
Hen's teeth!Its from the hen that was thrown down and emerged at Peak Cavern with singed feathers! ;D
:clap2: :lol:



It would be very fitting if it does turn out to be a badger's though!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on April 26, 2017, 08:52:47 am
Last Night Mark W and I went back underground to continue where we left off on Sunday.
Two big revelations;
1) If you wash your caving kit, including gloves its much, much nicer to put on.
2) a 18v reciprocating saw is an absolute godsend and I dont know why we havent tried one before.

We started by cutting off the 6 or so boards that have been sticking up in the entrance dig for a while and getting in the way- that took about a minute with the saw :)
Next job was to find the capping mat.. someone had built a very neat wall in front of it on Sunday so we destroyed that to retrieve the mat and set about capping the large slab at the bottom of the dig whilst Mark W went around trimming boards and scaffold tubes with the power saw. Again- Why on earth are we only just discovering this now!?
Once mark had liberated enough short boards and I had liberated enough large bits of rock we began the task of boarding and backfilling the walls at the bottom of the dig, getting rid of quite a bit of material in the process. The boulder is definitely still there but weve got it well and truly worried. It should all be out on the next trip.
We spent a bit of time pulling teeth and bones out of the same area the previous canine came from, -15m from main chamber floor and below the clay layer. Have a look at the results of the amateur archaeology below (sorry about the bendy ruler, its all I could find in a rush this morning). Obviously there are all sorts of other bits of animal down there- the large tooth was from 0.5m away and looks like a cow or horse?
Bottom of the dig is looking nice- loose and draughty, the next trip will be a big hauling session and some good downward progress is anticipated.
We have a new stock of boards and plenty of doubles, ill be collecting some tube tonight from Ash but we are desperately short of single clips again now.

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17992211_10155220889123908_4762415361437422026_n.jpg?oh=9868bae35ea4a7ebf828274376ce52a4&oe=59C208BB)

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18010415_10155220889128908_7822973039338217002_n.jpg?oh=902db181ff23c5975b1e463c42aae1b9&oe=5981BC29)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark on April 26, 2017, 09:27:22 am
we are desperately short of single clips again now.

Leave that with me
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on April 26, 2017, 12:07:51 pm
Don't forget there's meant to be at least one victim of a highwayman down there - and his horse. If it's true, I guess you're unlikely to find any dubloons on him, but he may have a fancy jacket you can prussick out in. Remember to take it off before you phone the cops though...
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Jenny P on April 26, 2017, 12:26:07 pm
Do make sure all bones and the like are reported to Andrew Chamberlain as he is investigating bones found in cave digs to check the ages of the remains. 

Hyena bones have been found in a Peak Cavern dig so, if you come across any of these these, you're down into prehistoric layers!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on April 26, 2017, 12:29:21 pm
Stand and Deliver!

Unlikely to be any muskets either, I guess they'd be quite valuable too.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Madness on April 26, 2017, 12:39:20 pm
Hyena bones have been found in a Peak Cavern dig so, if you come across any of these these, you're down into prehistoric layers!

And possibly digging in the wrong place!?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Jenny P on April 26, 2017, 12:50:10 pm
Not necessarily. 

The point made by Andrew was that bones get washed through from their original site and may give a clue to a former route from a swallet.  So, if you find hyena bones anywhere in a swallet above Peak Cavern, you may be looking at a potential route through into Peak where more of the bones finally came to rest.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: adam on April 26, 2017, 12:57:58 pm
Just what I was thinking, Madness. If we're into prehistoric layers, we've definitely missed the supposed second shaft. I doubt most of the bones have been washed through, as there are some fairly compact mud layers within the fill, not a great deal of water even in wet weather, and some of the bones are calcited in place within the back wall of the dig.
Perhaps we should start tunnelling horizontally  :doubt:
Then again, down is good, the river is down.

Don't forget there's meant to be at least one victim of a highwayman down there

We've already found his hat...
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: pwhole on April 26, 2017, 03:40:48 pm
My feeling is that there will be a lot of fill from more 'modern' times than 'prehistoric' yet. Before anyone descended Eldon Hole in any real documented sense, there must still have been a huge amount of time where folks chucked rocks down it - and natural breakdown of the walls contributing too, what with the weather up there. I can easily imagine Roman soldiers, for example, wanging a few down if they stopped for lunch nearby during a long march. There wouldn't be much else to do around there, unless the really perceptive ones had spotted some veins and begun digging!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on April 26, 2017, 04:32:14 pm
Is the draft still coming from below? This could mean that you're OK and down is still teh way.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: adam on April 26, 2017, 04:46:25 pm
The draught has always been quite diffuse. You can feel it a few metres from the bottom of the shaft, but not right really at the dig face. Anyway... vertical section now so we should be making several metres of progress with each visit. Exciting times ahead!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mrs Trellis on April 26, 2017, 10:47:57 pm
My pet Vitnery says:-

More than one animal, probably at least 5 diet species.

The large tooth adjacent to the jawbone (cms1-6) looks like a herbivores molar with grinding ridges  = sheep or cow or even small horse ?

ditto large knuckle bone with complex articular surface (cms 16-20) = sheep or pig or cow or horse carpus/tarsus

jawbones probably sheep.

thin long rib bones look too thin to be from domestic species. Other bones difficult to tell from the pictures

Lack of signs of chewing may mean natural death. Marrow bones are usually broken open to get at the marrow by predators.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Brains on April 27, 2017, 09:43:22 am
Apparently when Nettle Pot was being dug, lots of deer bones were in the fill, but no idea how you ID them! Perhaps if you find a herbivore skull with a red nose?  :lol:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: RichardB1983 on April 27, 2017, 01:06:59 pm
Lack of signs of chewing may mean natural death.

Death coming possibly as a result of a large fall? [/sleuth]
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mrs Trellis on April 27, 2017, 06:09:51 pm
To be fair the vitnery didn't know the cause of death.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: lizcaplen on May 06, 2017, 07:47:27 pm
Hello all,

I am working with Doubleband Films on the second series of Tony Robinson's Ancient Tracks, for episode 3 we are doing the Derbyshire Portway and Tony is hoping to be able to visit Eldon Hole. Would any of you be able to help me organise this and perhaps work or be filmed with Tony? Be really lovely to get people on board - filming is 10th - 16th July. Please contact me via email if you think you can help.

Thanks,

Liz
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on May 07, 2017, 07:35:31 am
Hi Liz- I have sent you a pm.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mrs Trellis on May 07, 2017, 09:52:22 am
Do you have a cunning plan for getting him down the 'ole?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on May 07, 2017, 10:40:02 am
Wait for the breakthrough then walk in via Peak!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: braveduck on May 07, 2017, 06:17:18 pm
Don't let him make you trench Coffee ! ;D 
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Big Jim on May 08, 2017, 01:17:17 pm
Don't let Dreg do it... unless its going out after the watershed  :lol:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: danthecavingman on May 18, 2017, 08:49:06 am
No reports for nearly a month - is this the usual summer hiatus or has it 'gone' and we can expect a mega report soon?

D.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 18, 2017, 08:51:05 am
Expect a detailed report very soon.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: yrammy on May 18, 2017, 09:01:44 am
I'm sure you have read the description of Eldon in Pilkington A View Of The Present State Of Derbyshire 1789. But if not I have a copy and can scan it for you. This fascinated me from when I first started caving in 1974. I am following this dig with interest.
M
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Big Jim on May 18, 2017, 10:15:33 am
Expect a detailed report very soon.

Mark

You ****ing tease Mark!  :-\ :-\ :-\

Just hurry up and crack it, then you lot can move on to those dolines east of the quarry - I think they deserve a 'badger dig'.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 18, 2017, 01:57:08 pm
Expect a detailed report very soon.

Mark

You ****ing tease Mark!  :-\ :-\ :-\

Just hurry up and crack it, then you lot can move on to those dolines east of the quarry - I think they deserve a 'badger dig'.

We don't do surface digs, only digs at the bottoms of very big shafts.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: AR on May 18, 2017, 04:40:00 pm
Does this mean that Mark R will set you all on digging out the base of a certain engine shaft in order to retrieve the teamaking equipment once Eldon' done? :-\
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on May 18, 2017, 07:55:11 pm
Does this mean that Mark R will set you all on digging out the base of a certain engine shaft in order to retrieve the teamaking equipment once Eldon' done? :-\

It's on my list..!!!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on May 19, 2017, 01:03:29 am
01/05/17

Sorry for the late posting.

Mark W., Mark R., Mark S., Adam W. & Ivor, carried 15 x 1.8m boards, 7 x 8’ scaffold tubes, a bag of singles, 36v drill and 18v reciprocating saw (what a tool), rope, stereo, coffee flasks and sandwiches up to Eldon Hole on Monday.

Special thanks must go to the two lads who we talked into helping with equipment portaging. Sorry I didn’t catch your names.

The first job was clearing the former wall out from the bottom of the first shaft we had dismantled the week before. With that done there followed a constant stream of buckets coming from the sharp end interspersed with some pretty large blocks coming up in the net. None stop hauling until lunchtime and a welcome rest. Mark R. and Adam then went down to do some capping while we finished our sandwiches and then some more hauling.

Following a lack of any movement at the sharp end for some time I went down to see what the problem was. There had been a significant slump of rocks behind the boards we installed the week before and it was time for some serious backfilling.

With this complete and a new scaffold ring and a fresh set of boards installed it was time for the pub so we all headed out for a pint in the Devonshire.

As has already been posted, we have been finding all sorts of animal bones in the rubble and bank holiday Monday was no exception. The only difference was, some of the bones, recovered from a depth of +/- 16m, weren’t from an animal, they were human and not just one human, an adult and a juvenile.

With the relevant authorities and landowner contacted we have been advised to temporarily stop the project pending the issue of an exhumation license for any further bone removal and have received advice from the NP on recording any future archaeological finds.

The bones have undergone a detailed investigation by the University of Dundee and confirmed by the county coroner as not being recent. Accurate dating is currently being organized through the University of Nottingham and as soon as we have some news we will post on here.

In the meantime could we ask that people avoid going down to the dig face until further notice. Hopefully this won’t be too long. 

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Madness on May 19, 2017, 03:58:07 am
Cheers for the report.

Really interested to hear about the human bones and I'll be interested when the result of the dating comes back.

Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mrs Trellis on May 19, 2017, 08:24:59 am
The highwayman's victims?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark R on May 19, 2017, 09:03:57 am
The below report extracts dont necessarily relate to the photos but they give you an idea of what we have found.

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18620195_10155289955443908_6362028648152271651_n.jpg?oh=d3d4483bcfef7052326f8baa11bb1cee&oe=59AAB7AD)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18556696_10155289957178908_1690717718892957134_o.jpg?oh=462f78222aa5ff8213df84bfe11d97ad&oe=59B0790A)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18519632_10155289979823908_8888189991531510539_n.jpg?oh=b87b732b78b0050064725a0ce233a476&oe=59A4FAFC)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18556343_10155289979868908_1050909371946888920_n.jpg?oh=a3334744d6b5d0e45aaf3fb128898330&oe=59B9A5DE)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18582534_10155289979838908_2006916340906643292_n.jpg?oh=db1fa1d853eeb00f7c5e14b1b485a437&oe=59AC07E6)
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18486265_10155289979833908_948734068621844936_n.jpg?oh=5f7ec74d41086cd05002cf0f53638911&oe=59AAECBE)
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on May 19, 2017, 09:40:16 am
Good timing considering Doubleband Films want to film the dig for their archaeology program!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark on May 19, 2017, 10:26:45 am
So if the human bones pre-date Lloyds shaft account, what then
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: MarkS on May 19, 2017, 10:35:49 am
So if the human bones pre-date Lloyds shaft account, what then

That's exactly what I've been pondering, but there's only one way to find out for certain what's at the bottom...
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on May 19, 2017, 10:41:44 am
Would this be the first ever dig that navigates by the age of the human remains they find?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Tangent_tracker on May 19, 2017, 11:48:46 am
Fascinating, but equally sad that we'll likely never know the true story of what happened or who they were!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: adam on May 19, 2017, 11:52:58 am
There are two differing accounts of the first descent of Eldon Hole by George Bradley. One says that he reported finding animal bones and human remains at the bottom: http://www.countryimagesmagazine.co.uk/walking/walking-eldon-hole/ (http://www.countryimagesmagazine.co.uk/walking/walking-eldon-hole/)

Another says that he went mad and died shortly afterwards without reporting what he had seen: https://www.mountain.rescue.org.uk/assets/files/The Oracle/History and people/CaveRescueBeforeNeilMoss.pdf (https://www.mountain.rescue.org.uk/assets/files/The Oracle/History and people/CaveRescueBeforeNeilMoss.pdf) (PDF)

They also report the sponsor of the expedition as being either the Earl of Leicester or Henry Cavendish of Chatsworth House...

This descent took place in the late 1500's so could well have been before the supposed second shaft was covered over.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: alastairgott on May 19, 2017, 12:11:25 pm
Adam, I think you're first link may need a pinch of salt, given it says

Quote
In more modern times cave explorers have managed to clear most of the rocks dropped by inquisitive tourists. From the bottom of the pothole they found that Eldon Hole is linked to a complex system of underground passages.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: braveduck on May 19, 2017, 12:39:23 pm
Those teeth are in better condition than mine !  ;D
Fantastic and intriguing ,keep digging and let me know if you need any new buckets and nets.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Brains on May 19, 2017, 01:34:19 pm
Keep going to bedrock or water?

When I had been down there previously a significant amount of water was flowing down the wall at the bottom of the rubble slope, near the pull through for the up pitches and the abandoned backfilled shaft in the floor - that has to go somewhere
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: adam on May 19, 2017, 04:11:09 pm
Adam, I think you're first link may need a pinch of salt, given it says

Quote
In more modern times cave explorers have managed to clear most of the rocks dropped by inquisitive tourists. From the bottom of the pothole they found that Eldon Hole is linked to a complex system of underground passages.

Yes, that did raise a figurative eyebrow. However it's not completely fake news is it - modern cave explorers have been digging at the bottom on and off for quite a few years, and it has been dye traced to one of the Peak Cavern resurgences.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Speleotron on May 19, 2017, 05:42:55 pm
On a bit of tangent, I've never really believed that the rocks down there are from a few drystone walls and a couple of cottages, there seems to be far too much for that. I wonder if old quarrymen used to dump waste down there?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Over the Hill on May 19, 2017, 05:45:49 pm
Human waste looking at those bones.  :coffee:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Big Jim on May 20, 2017, 09:17:13 pm
I think that finding human 'skelingtons' is really exciting news. Maybe next you can find some treasure that'll be worth shit loads and pay for the dig.... and the next dig, and the next dig..... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on June 17, 2017, 10:48:48 pm
Just to give everyone a bit of an update.

I've just realised its been a month since our last digging trip. We've had a couple of tidying up trips in the entrance and Main Chamber area and had a trip to the top of Millers Chamber with a view to permanently re-rigging the up pitches with some new rope and rigging.

We are still waiting on the issue of the necessary licence to continue digging, although we are hopeful this will be in the next few weeks. Most of the regular digging team have been working away for most of the past month so its not too bad.

The Badgers will be helping out next month with the filming of the 'Britains Ancient Tracks' TV program. Unfortunately Tony Robinson wasn't keen to be lowered down into the Main Chamber but the production company are still keen to have some underground footage taken with helmet mounted GoPro's. 

As soon as we have the licence to start digging again we will let everyone know.

Mark

 

Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: yrammy on June 19, 2017, 08:27:09 am
What a fascinating, difficult and long awaited dig this is. Can I put an order in for the book now!
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Cave_Troll on July 13, 2017, 08:36:48 am
do you want a 6 foot+ long scaff plank that seems to be in my bathroom?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: MJenkinson on July 13, 2017, 10:00:11 am
Are we OK to go and have a nosey if we don't do any digging?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on July 13, 2017, 11:22:04 am
Thanks for the offer of the scaffold board but no thanks we don't use them.

No problem going down into the dig but be very careful as there are a lot of bones in the floor of the dig which could be damaged.

It would be best to avoid the place on Sunday though as we are filming Britains Ancient Tracks with Tony Robinson.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: nickwilliams on July 13, 2017, 02:39:09 pm
Tim, we'll have the scaff. plank for Bullpit if you need to find a home for it.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Cave_Troll on July 14, 2017, 01:16:27 pm
sold.

and i'll not go down eldon on sunday
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: mudman on July 16, 2017, 08:49:12 pm
Thanks for the offer of the scaffold board but no thanks we don't use them.

No problem going down into the dig but be very careful as there are a lot of bones in the floor of the dig which could be damaged.

It would be best to avoid the place on Sunday though as we are filming Britains Ancient Tracks with Tony Robinson.

Mark

Just out of interest, could you say why you don't use scaffolding planks?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on July 17, 2017, 01:30:31 pm
Hi,

We will only be using 6"x1" tanalised (or similar treated) planks for the dig with the occasional 4" plank slotted in here and there. Sadly we will have to buy the materials. Badlad taught me very quickly that it's not worth trying to shoe- horn in free materials of irregular sizes that won't last. Best to bite the bullet and buy the kit to do the job properly.

Cheers for the offer though.

Mark

As Mark R. pointed out a couple of years ago, we only use 6' x 1' tanalised timber for the dig with the odd 4" plank used to fill in the gaps. Scaffold boards aren't treated, are too thick, too long, too wide, very heavy (especially when wet) and very very expensive.

Mark
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: mudman on July 17, 2017, 06:13:01 pm
Hi,

We will only be using 6"x1" tanalised (or similar treated) planks for the dig with the occasional 4" plank slotted in here and there. Sadly we will have to buy the materials. Badlad taught me very quickly that it's not worth trying to shoe- horn in free materials of irregular sizes that won't last. Best to bite the bullet and buy the kit to do the job properly.

Cheers for the offer though.

Mark

As Mark R. pointed out a couple of years ago, we only use 6' x 1' tanalised timber for the dig with the odd 4" plank used to fill in the gaps. Scaffold boards aren't treated, are too thick, too long, too wide, very heavy (especially when wet) and very very expensive.

Mark

Thanks Mark.
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mrs Trellis on September 16, 2017, 10:34:27 am
Has work on the project stopped because of the discovery of human remains?
Title: Re: Eldon Hole - Trip Report
Post by: Mark Wright on September 16, 2017, 10:45:37 am
Has work on the project stopped because of the discovery of human remains?

See posts 519 & 536

Mark