Author Topic: 3d printing  (Read 5142 times)

Offline graham

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3d printing
« on: May 20, 2010, 09:25:14 am »
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/10089419.stm

I offer an evening's free beer to the first of our computer whizz-kids who can print out a 3d model of their favourite cave system using technology similar to this.
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Offline Duncan Price

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Re: 3d printing
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2010, 09:18:11 am »
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/10089419.stm

I offer an evening's free beer to the first of our computer whizz-kids who can print out a 3d model of their favourite cave system using technology similar to this.

You'd better buy Jim Hanwell a few shandys then as he used Laminated Object Manufacturing to make a 3D model of Browne's Hole when he was a school.

Offline graham

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Re: 3d printing
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2010, 09:27:35 am »
I believe I may have purchased Mr Hanwell a shandy or two in the past & I have seen 3d models elsewhere - there's a wire-frame one of la grotte de la Luire on display in the show cave- but that's not what I meant.

I have yet to see a "proper" 3d model generated even for a screen, it's meant to be possible on Therion and, possibly, Tunnel but I've only seen wire-frame or 2d so far. When they get a fully 3d model it'll be worth building one of them printers to output it. £350 should be well within budgetary constraints somewhere on Mendip.
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Offline Roger W

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Re: 3d printing
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2010, 12:10:26 pm »
Try http://research.gg.uwyo.edu/kincaid/Publications/mod_slds/mod1.htm

Also http://www.carto.net/neumann/caving/3dmodels/index.shtml

And of course there's the Theban Mapping Project with their 3D 'tour'  of KV 14
at http://www.thebanmappingproject.com/  -  select 'Atlas of the Valley of the Kings', then the 'Maps and Plans' tab, then '3D tomb'.
"That, of course, is the dangerous part about caves:  you don't know how far they go back, sometimes... or what is waiting for you inside."   JRR Tolkein: "The Hobbit"

Offline khakipuce

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Re: 3d printing
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2010, 01:16:43 pm »
When I read Grahams first post I was thinking "candy from babes" because we have a 3D proto-typer here-abouts. I was just weighing up the merits of a night of free beer against getting sacked.

But from Graham's second post it seems that this is more about getting adequate section data and projecting along the survey legs that it is about building a 3D model. (I am currently messing around with some ideas for rapid, albeit rough-and-ready, surveying.) So what are the criteria for a "proper" 3D model, how much detail?

As an side Geevor (or was it South Crofty) used to have a wonderful wire and balsa wood model of the workings - I wonder if it is still around anywhere.

Offline graham

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Re: 3d printing
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2010, 02:37:05 pm »
It's about both, khakipuce, it's about getting the survey side right and then being able to generate the correct output to "print" using one of these devices.

I think we might be intending to give it a go, I seem to have got a team with most of the required skills together already, just a couple of people to talk round.
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Offline marysboy

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Re: 3d printing
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2010, 06:33:22 pm »
Do you envisage the plastic to take the shape of the rock, or of the space within? (i.e. do you want a swiss cheese or a slug?)

Which is right?  Are both models of 'the cave'?  :-\

Offline graham

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Re: 3d printing
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2010, 06:49:27 pm »
Do you envisage the plastic to take the shape of the rock, or of the space within? (i.e. do you want a swiss cheese or a slug?)

Which is right?  Are both models of 'the cave'?  :-\

I feel that the space within is more useful if the cave is being viewed from without. The alternative might be useful if we could print at 1:1.
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Offline khakipuce

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Re: 3d printing
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2010, 08:11:59 pm »
I think you are going to have to pick your cave carefully, something like a big chamber might be easer but long thin passages might be more difficult with the RepRap. The 3d prot-typer where I work uses a laser to solidify the surface of a liquid polymer, the model is then lowered and the next layer solidifed - so the model is supported by the liquid.

It looks like the RepRap extrudes molten plastic so long thin passages might suffer from a bit of droop (so might the winner of of your offer  :lol:)

Offline kdxn

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Re: 3d printing
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2010, 11:45:06 am »
First get loads of data points by using a 3d laser scanner, photogrammetry (?), video, or a tripod mounted DistoX plus lots of time.

Data processing, lots of 3D data processing software out there to create a triangulated digital model which is what you need for the 3D printing and this data procesing often takes more time than the data collection.........

Some options for the 3D printing include the laser fixed polymer or the more interesting powder based modellers - the latter can be coloured using photographs to give a photo realistic appearance but....... you would have to split your cave passage in two halves to print it. Couple of UK vendors :
http://www.3dcreationlab.co.uk/
http://www.printin3d.co.uk/

Haven given consideration to 3D printing my model of Gaping Gill main chamber - anyone with a 3D printer available to get it done before HE 2010 ????

Offline cavermark

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Re: 3d printing
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2010, 10:28:18 pm »
Has anyone tried a stereoscopic type display of a survey on a screen yet - Avatar and all that...

Offline graham

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Re: 3d printing
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2010, 07:34:14 am »
Has anyone tried a stereoscopic type display of a survey on a screen yet - Avatar and all that...

We did stereo cave surveys back in the 1970s. Both Compass and Therion support 3d views now, though both need red&blue glasses & I've mislaid mine. :(
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Offline speleotel

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Re: 3d printing
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2010, 09:26:17 pm »
My offering to this thread is this guy;

http://www.sculpture.org.uk/biography/KeithBrown/

http://www.sculpture.org.uk/work/000000300522/

he could print a 3D cave.

But I'm sorry its art and its not caving

Offline TheBitterEnd

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Re: 3d printing
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2011, 01:09:37 pm »
Here you go

'Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.' — Mark Twain

Offline kdxn

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Re: 3d printing
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2011, 10:33:48 pm »
Graham,
Is that offer of a free evenings beer still on for a physical 3D print of a cave ??

http://www.indiegogo.com/eMAKER-Huxley-3D-printer-kits

Which cave to print ?
GG, Deer Cave or Sarawak Chamber ?

See you at HE2011 !

Offline jarvist

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Re: 3d printing
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2011, 11:31:19 pm »
I always thought a 3D crystal engraving would be more suitable for making a model of a cave:
http://www.lasercrystal.co.uk/

That way there's also no worries about making the structure self-supporting on construction, and it's very compatible with a DEM for the surface above too.

Offline pete_the_caver

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Re: 3d printing
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2011, 10:26:08 am »
I always thought a 3D crystal engraving would be more suitable for making a model of a cave:
http://www.lasercrystal.co.uk/

That way there's also no worries about making the structure self-supporting on construction, and it's very compatible with a DEM for the surface above too.

this sounds like a better concept to me.  It would allow a continuous surface to overlay the cave and therefore give a much better understanding of the relationship between the surface drainage and the underlying cave.

One thing that I assume would be possible with a 3D crystal engraving would be the ability to add to the survey as new cave was found. 

I am particularly interested in this question because I am involved in trying to produce a 3D survey of the new Stormy Pot system in New Zealand that would show how it relates to the surface, Nettlebed and Windrift.