Eldon Quarry Access

[bograt]

Been asked to let folks know;
 
ELDON HILL QUARRY

DCA’s website now has details of the latest developments in the access situation. Chatsworth own the Quarry and don’t want the site widely publicised at this stage, and their tenant farmer has concerns of his own regarding visitors. Natural England also have an interest as the Quarry is part of the Castleton SSSI. However, an accommodation has now been reached and anyone interested should refer to thedca.org.uk/

[Rob]

Good news.
Thanks to all those who have worked hard on this... 

[pwhole]

Maybe a couple of safe in/out routes could be agreed and pointed out to cavers somehow without going too public and without upsetting the landowners. The ledge heading west appeared to get rather dodgy after the point I climbed up, with a horrible crack about a metre in from the edge, which is definitely not going to heal! Not sure what the face is like directly below Sidetrack, but perhaps adding bolts there to at least allow an abseil to the quarry floor might help?

[mulucaver]

I've just been looking at the DCA site re access to Eldon Quarry and have a few questions.

"The Quarry is part of the Castleton SSSI and all digging needs to be logged."
Does this mean we have carte blanche to dig anywhere in the quarry without asking for specific permission?
Who's requirement is it to log digging?
What happens to the digging log?
What is the reason for logging digging trips?
If this is an arrangement with Natural England does it only apply to Eldon Quarry or does it apply to all of the Castleton SSSI?

[mmilner]

"The Quarry is part of the Castleton SSSI and all digging needs to be logged."
Does this mean we have carte blanche to dig anywhere in the quarry without asking for specific permission?

It is as quoted "part of the Castleton SSSI", therefore any new dig needs prior consent from Natural England...

[mulucaver]

"The Quarry is part of the Castleton SSSI and all digging needs to be logged."
Does this mean we have carte blanche to dig anywhere in the quarry without asking for specific permission?

It is as quoted "part of the Castleton SSSI", therefore any new dig needs prior consent from Natural England...

The DCA website says "New sites should be given a name and added to the survey."
There is no mention of having to apply to Natural England. Perhaps it should be modified to make it clear.

[mulucaver]

"The Quarry is part of the Castleton SSSI and all digging needs to be logged."
Does this mean we have carte blanche to dig anywhere in the quarry without asking for specific permission?

It is as quoted "part of the Castleton SSSI", therefore any new dig needs prior consent from Natural England...

What about digging in old digs?

[mmilner]

The DCA website says "New sites should be given a name and added to the survey."
There is no mention of having to apply to Natural England. Perhaps it should be modified to make it clear.

Maybe it should, but I'd have thought everyone knows these days to contact NE for consent?

[mmilner]

What about digging in old digs?

They will presumably already have consent, so no problem. But the logging I think is at the stipulation of the landowner.

[Big Jim]

What about digging in old digs?
[/quote]

You planning a return to Sidetrack then Dave?

[bograt]

What about digging in old digs?

They will presumably already have consent, so no problem. But the logging I think is at the stipulation of the landowner.

Maybe so, but I would suggest that the "powers that be" (EN, Chatsworth, etc.) be notified of any intention to re-activate them, maybe via the relevent DCA officers? (Conservation - Mel, Access - Ewan), please remember that they both have only recently been persuaded into these posts so be gentle!

Considering the HUGH amount of work that has gone into regaining access to this site, jumping through a few more hoops on the potential diggers part would not be too much effort, they are easy enough to get through!!

[mulucaver]

What about digging in old digs?

You planning a return to Sidetrack then Dave?
[/quote]

I guess that was what started it all but, no, I'm talking about old digs that date to before the SSSI.

[mulucaver]

What about digging in old digs?

They will presumably already have consent, so no problem. But the logging I think is at the stipulation of the landowner.

Maybe so, but I would suggest that the "powers that be" (EN, Chatsworth, etc.) be notified of any intention to re-activate them, maybe via the relevent DCA officers? (Conservation - Mel, Access - Ewan), please remember that they both have only recently been persuaded into these posts so be gentle!

Considering the HUGH amount of work that has gone into regaining access to this site, jumping through a few more hoops on the potential diggers part would not be too much effort, they are easy enough to get through!!

Terry, I'm not trying to circumvent anything, I'm just interested in finding out the what, where, who and why behind the current situation. As one third of the Sidetrack diggers I guess I must bear some responsibility for the current amount of traffic into Eldon Quarry and one of my concerns is that any new digs will be evident to all visitors who sign the log making it difficult to keep it quiet before any breakthrough.
Having said that I've not seen the log and don't know what info is collected.

[mulucaver]

The DCA website says "New sites should be given a name and added to the survey."
There is no mention of having to apply to Natural England. Perhaps it should be modified to make it clear.

Maybe it should, but I'd have thought everyone knows these days to contact NE for consent?

I wouldn't mind betting most don't or don't even give it a thought and even those that do know won't necessarily apply.

[bograt]

Similarly, not trying to block anything, I was just trying to point out the delicacy of the situation, I was there on the last site visit to the active quarry and could offer information.

The DCA website says "New sites should be given a name and added to the survey."
There is no mention of having to apply to Natural England. Perhaps it should be modified to make it clear.

Maybe it should, but I'd have thought everyone knows these days to contact NE for consent?

I wouldn't mind betting most don't or don't even give it a thought and even those that do know won't necessarily apply.

Until it comes to the CRUNCH!!, then no-one wants to help sort it out!!

[graham]

Am I missing something here? Anyone wishing to dig needs to gain consent from the relevant landowner or manager; the site being in a SSSI then that person will be aware of need to gain consent from NE and will either request it or request that the diggers get it themselves. Where on earth is the room for confusion?

[mmilner]

I guess that was what started it all but, no, I'm talking about old digs that date to before the SSSI.

Wearing my 'digging / conservation juggling' hat, I would say that if you are not digging on the surface, removing spoil and placing it on the surface or digging in any cave that contains sensitive features (and the dig would be near those features) that are noted in NE/DCA monitoring forms (see the cave monitoring web site for those) and being monitored, (and Sidetrack for example isn't), then you would be OK.

BUT, I agree with Terry it would do no harm to run it by DCA in the first instance, then NE. (NE rarely refuse permission.) And all surface digs must be left safe, so no-one can fall down them...

Regards Mel. DCA Conservation Officer.

[mmilner]

Am I missing something here? Anyone wishing to dig needs to gain consent from the relevant landowner or manager; the site being in a SSSI then that person will be aware of need to gain consent from NE and will either request it or request that the diggers get it themselves. Where on earth is the room for confusion?

Because, people often don't bother asking. At Beeston Tor In the Manifold Valley a few years ago, a caver (name & club known) started digging in a cave and uncovered human remains. He went to a museum to get them id'd and this set off a chain of events that cost the NT around £8k.

I think that is what the log is for, to monitor activity in the quarry, so that if anything is noticed that has not been approved or logged, appropriate action can be taken, which in this case could be closure of the quarry again!

Regards Mel. DCA Conservation Officer.

[mmilner]

OK, I now have clarification of the situation here, thanx to Pete Mellors of DCA:-

The agreement between DCA, Chatsworth and Natural England allows for digs to be started or resumed in the Quarry without the need for further permissions to be sought or obtained.
 
The only stipulation is that all trips to the Quarry are logged, and DCA has agreed to implement this and so monitor the visiting situation on behalf of Chatsworth, the tenant farmer, and Natural England, largely in case of damage or threats to the scientific interest of the site. Cavers are asked, in other words, to keep it low key, fill in the logbook, and please dig responsibly and thereby safeguard the access we now have.
 
Pete M

[mulucaver]

Am I missing something here? Anyone wishing to dig needs to gain consent from the relevant landowner or manager; the site being in a SSSI then that person will be aware of need to gain consent from NE and will either request it or request that the diggers get it themselves. Where on earth is the room for confusion?

Yes, you were missing something. Are you confused now?

[bograt]

And are you offering to help with the digging Graham?

[graham]

Am I missing something here? Anyone wishing to dig needs to gain consent from the relevant landowner or manager; the site being in a SSSI then that person will be aware of need to gain consent from NE and will either request it or request that the diggers get it themselves. Where on earth is the room for confusion?

Yes, you were missing something. Are you confused now?

No, it is clear that DCA have gained relevant consent from both landowner and NE. Well done them.

And are you offering to help with the digging Graham?

I suspect that my travelling times to the site would rather inhibit that. Sorry.

[mulucaver]

I'd like to suggest that any agreements made for cave access are published in full on the DCA website so that cavers can see exactly what their obligations are.

[mmilner]

I'd like to suggest that any agreements made for cave access are published in full on the DCA website so that cavers can see exactly what their obligations are.

In the case of Eldon Quarry, this has now been done, see home page. (I can only publish what I am sent.)

Regards, Mel. DCA Webmaster & Conservation Officer.

[EwanCameron]

Can anyone that has visited Sidetrack in the last 2 weeks and has found the box with the log in please PM me ASAP.

Yours
Ewan Cameron
DCA Access Officer

[Pete K]

The box is still there as of 2pm today (3/3/14).
I'd not been up since the new box was installed and made the mistake of walking right up the lane until I could see into the quarry, a mistake I imagine was duplicated by those who did not find it. Once I back-tracked it was easy to find. Box, key and logbook still in place.
Ewan has details of exact location and arrangements and now also has some photos if people really struggle. I won't post the exact location here so I suggest contacting the DCA for details if you are in any doubt.

Pete
DCA Projects Officer

[EwanCameron]

If anyone is visiting Sidetrack PM me if you need photos to help you locate the box & log book. It's important that people use the log book as part of the access agreement so please make every effort to locate it.

Yours
Ewan
DCA Access

P.s thanks Pete for your visit today

[skippy]

Never mind finding the box..it took me ages to work out how to get into it

[EwanCameron]

Lol

[Big Jim]

The signing in book is still unusably soggy. Looks like its been put back into its bag whilst damp and just stayed that way. Pete Mellors is aware and is hoping to take a new book up there in next few weeks.

J

[mmilner]

The signing in book is still unusably soggy. Looks like its been put back into its bag whilst damp and just stayed that way. Pete Mellors is aware and is hoping to take a new book up there in next few weeks.

J

Why not replace it with a water resistant surveying book? Then it wouldn't get soggy! There was someone on here a while ago selling various sizes of these books....

Regards Mel. DCA Conservation Officer.

[Anon]

It's important that people use the log book as part of the access agreement so please make every effort to locate it.

Just out of interest (never been so obviously never looked into access at this particular site), why is it so important that people use a log book, what is achieved by this task?

[graham]

It's important that people use the log book as part of the access agreement so please make every effort to locate it.

Just out of interest (never been so obviously never looked into access at this particular site), why is it so important that people use a log book, what is achieved by this task?

I have also wondered that. Surely the traffic that you need to know about is the traffic that will not record itself voluntarily.

[EwanCameron]

It's down to the land owner having issues in the past

Use the log book and keep him happy

[Big Jim]

The DCA have worked hard with the land tenant, the owners (Chatsworth) and Natural England to regain access to the quarry. This is one of the conditions agreed to secure the continued access by cavers to the quarry. Its no great ball ache so why question it if it keeps all parties happy. Simple!

J

[graham]

No biggy. If it keeps the landowner happy then fine.

[Anon]

Its no great ball ache so why question it if it keeps all parties happy. Simple!

Like I said, I've never been and have no knowledge of the access situation. So without spending time searching for an answer I thought I'd ask here, as it seemed like a quick, simple and perfectly reasonable question to ask. I still don't understand what it acheives, but it's what the landowner wants so be it.

[mmilner]

Its no great ball ache so why question it if it keeps all parties happy. Simple!

Like I said, I've never been and have no knowledge of the access situation. So without spending time searching for an answer I thought I'd ask here, as it seemed like a quick, simple and perfectly reasonable question to ask. I still don't understand what it acheives, but it's what the landowner wants so be it.

It achieves the  land tenant and landowner knowledge of who was on their land for valid reasons under an access agreement. Previously he had problems with unauthorised people using the quarry for unauthorised purposes and closed all access. An example of this is the people, (albeit after the quarry was re-opened), who tried to nick the rope that was rigged down to Sidetrack Cave by cavers legitimately using the quarry. I'm sure the would-be  thieves didn't fill in the log book!

[EwanCameron]

URGENT UPDATE - someone has been and stolen the box & logbook can people give the area a miss until we can get something sorted ASAP

MASIVE thanks for yours support in this matter

Yours
Ewan Cameron
DCA Access


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jenny P]

There is now an update on this on the other thread re. Eldon Quarry.

I'll not bother to re-post it here.

Jenny Potts,
DCA Hon. Secretary

[Jenny P]

Eldon Quarry Access
Persons unknown have recently stolen the lock and chain from the gate into Eldon Quarry.  The farmer is aware and, for the time being the gate is secured by baler twine and he has no problem with cavers entering quarry under the usual conditions: i.e. no cars to be taken into the quarry and fill in the Log Book in the box each time.  The farmer has warned that any vehicles seen in the quarry will be reported to the police so, if you come across anything untoward, please let DCA know by emailing us via the DCA website www.theDCA.org.uk

Jenny Potts,
DCA Hon. Sec.

[Jenny P]

Please note that there will an international group in Eldon Hill Quarry on Friday 26th June as part of a scientific field trip.  An officer from Natural England headquarters will be on the trip and the farmer, Maurice Gregory, has given permission.

Jenny Potts,
DCA Hon. Sec.