Author Topic: BCA AGM - CRoW Report  (Read 10497 times)

Offline badger

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Re: BCA AGM - CRoW Report
« Reply #125 on: June 07, 2016, 11:12:21 pm »
having read cavermark question cant see how it is bullying
and I am quite sure peter does and can speak for himself

Offline badger

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Re: BCA AGM - CRoW Report
« Reply #126 on: June 07, 2016, 11:15:59 pm »
quite funny that so much comment coming from an agm report, you could all have had a say, I wonder how many of us where there,
well chris binding was, and me
actually for a membership of about 6000 I would say less than 1% where there.
maybe I should not be surprised since only 37% could manage to put a x in a paper and send back in a prepaid envelope

Offline mikem

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Re: BCA AGM - CRoW Report
« Reply #127 on: June 07, 2016, 11:57:05 pm »
Climbers were also excluded by CRoW, but managed to get themselves included without going to court - has anyone contacted the BMC?

The worry is that landowners on access land will be less likely to give permission to dig if the cave then also becomes open access...

Mike

Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: BCA AGM - CRoW Report
« Reply #128 on: June 08, 2016, 08:46:37 am »
quite funny that so much comment coming from an agm report, you could all have had a say, I wonder how many of us where there,
well chris binding was, and me
actually for a membership of about 6000 I would say less than 1% where there.
maybe I should not be surprised since only 37% could manage to put a x in a paper and send back in a prepaid envelope
I had been away caving for two weekends on the trot. A third one was out of the question! There's only so much you can fit into weekends throughout the year. The CSCC AGM was for me more important.

Offline crickleymal

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Re: BCA AGM - CRoW Report
« Reply #129 on: June 08, 2016, 08:47:42 am »
So we've had a vote where anyone registered with the BCA could vote if they so wished. A majority of those who voted said they wished for BCA to campaign for CRoW to apply to us (or something). Nobody has suggested anything irregular about the vote. So why the fuck are you lot still arguing about it?
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Offline Badlad

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Re: BCA AGM - CRoW Report
« Reply #130 on: June 08, 2016, 08:53:25 am »
Climbers were also excluded by CRoW, but managed to get themselves included without going to court - has anyone contacted the BMC?

The worry is that landowners on access land will be less likely to give permission to dig if the cave then also becomes open access...

Mike

I'm not sure that climbers were ever excluded, but they did lobby hard to ensure that they were included.

The BMC are a much larger organisation, of course, with a full time staff and around 76,000 members.  They are also very proactive in access matters both locally and nationally.

The BCA are in contact and the BMC have generously offeredsome advice and support to the BCA campaign.  So a big thumbs up for the BMC from me  :thumbsup:

Offline PeteHall

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Re: BCA AGM - CRoW Report
« Reply #131 on: June 08, 2016, 09:30:16 am »
quite funny that so much comment coming from an agm report, you could all have had a say, I wonder how many of us where there,
well chris binding was, and me
actually for a membership of about 6000 I would say less than 1% where there.
maybe I should not be surprised since only 37% could manage to put a x in a paper and send back in a prepaid envelope

I think there were 27 people there, I seem to recall a vote going 22 in favour, 0 against, 2 abstain and 3 people didn't vote? If I'm right and the membership is unchanged from the time of the poll at 6,085, then we have a turnout of 0.4%  :coffee:
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Offline Bob Mehew

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Re: BCA AGM - CRoW Report
« Reply #132 on: June 08, 2016, 11:37:03 am »
BCA has a two house vote, individuals and clubs / groups.  There were two motions of interest, one on proxy voting, the other on amending Sec 4.6 to read That any rights held by the owners and tenants of property or mineral rights to grant or withhold access be respected.  The voting on the resultant modified Proxy vote motion was Individuals For 11, Against 2, Abstentions 2 and Group For 6, Against 5, Abstentions 3.  The voting on the  resultant modified second motion was Individuals For 22, Against 0, Abstentions 2 and Group For 14, Against 0, Abstentions 1.  (I have decided to not try and report what happened at the meeting and what the modified motions were; you will have to await the draft minutes for that.) 

So the voting representation expanded from 15 Individuals and 14 Groups for the first motion to 22 Individuals and 15 Groups for the second motion.  The AGM Report Item 13 indicated that at 23 May 2016, there were 5683 individual and 169 club members plus 8 constituent bodies and, 5 regional caving councils. 



Offline royfellows

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Re: BCA AGM - CRoW Report
« Reply #133 on: June 08, 2016, 12:24:22 pm »
I am well pleased that no one voted against the second motion as it was made in good faith and intended to reflect the law of the land in which we live as it is best understood at this point in time.

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Offline Ian Adams

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Re: BCA AGM - CRoW Report
« Reply #134 on: June 08, 2016, 06:00:55 pm »
I am well pleased that no one voted against the second motion as it was made in good faith and intended to reflect the law of the land in which we live as it is best understood at this point in time.


+1   :thumbsup:

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Offline damian

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Re: BCA AGM - CRoW Report
« Reply #135 on: June 08, 2016, 08:55:29 pm »
The voting on the resultant modified Proxy vote motion was Individuals For 11, Against 2, Abstentions 2 and Group For 6, Against 5, Abstentions 3.  The voting on the  resultant modified second motion was Individuals For 22, Against 0, Abstentions 2 and Group For 14, Against 0, Abstentions 1.

The voting in the modified Proxy vote motion was actually:

Individuals: For 11, Against 8, Abstentions 2

For anyone who is interested, there was one extra individual and one extra Group voter in the room between the first and second votes too.

In terms of attendance, there were a maximum of 29 people present representing 15 groups. The Chairman and Recorder do not have a vote. Some individuals clearly did not vote ... you need your membership card to vote, and they may well not have brought theirs.

The full minutes will probably be a little while ... I had 3 meeting last weekend and have all the minutes to do!

Offline Bob Mehew

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Re: BCA AGM - CRoW Report
« Reply #136 on: June 08, 2016, 09:13:46 pm »
The voting in the modified Proxy vote motion was actually:

Individuals: For 11, Against 8, Abstentions 2
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Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: BCA AGM - CRoW Report
« Reply #137 on: June 08, 2016, 10:39:35 pm »
I think there were 27 people there, I seem to recall a vote going 22 in favour, 0 against, 2 abstain and 3 people didn't vote? If I'm right and the membership is unchanged from the time of the poll at 6,085, then we have a turnout of 0.4%  :coffee:

It doesn't really matter too much that the turnout was only 0.4%, this is because the fact that only 2 people abstained means we can safely claim that 6,083 cavers can be presumed as being for the motion. Based on other ballotty-type interpretations. This is quite a significant majority, many percentage points over 51% for sure.  ;)

Offline cavemanmike

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Re: BCA AGM - CRoW Report
« Reply #138 on: June 08, 2016, 10:57:35 pm »
I think there were 27 people there, I seem to recall a vote going 22 in favour, 0 against, 2 abstain and 3 people didn't vote? If I'm right and the membership is unchanged from the time of the poll at 6,085, then we have a turnout of 0.4%  :coffee:

. Based on other ballotty-type interpretations. This is quite a significant majority, many percentage points over 51% for sure.  ;)

so even moderators can be provocative (but without getting a slap on the wrist) like the rest of us  :wall: :wall:
smacks of elitism  if you ask me
your not blonde with blue eyes by any chance  are you capn  :lol: :lol:

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: BCA AGM - CRoW Report
« Reply #139 on: June 08, 2016, 11:01:42 pm »
Emoticon = chirpy chinwag

No emoticon = subversive trolling; that's how it works, isn't it? Pretty sure that's how people who appear to be suggesting criminal acts get away with their comments here on other topics. e.g. gate-breaking.

Quite happy to be considered a contributor to the forum. Just ignore the mod status thingy and all should be well.

Offline mikem

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Re: BCA AGM - CRoW Report
« Reply #140 on: June 08, 2016, 11:07:22 pm »
Climbers were also excluded by CRoW, but managed to get themselves included without going to court - has anyone contacted the BMC?

The worry is that landowners on access land will be less likely to give permission to dig if the cave then also becomes open access...

Mike

I'm not sure that climbers were ever excluded, but they did lobby hard to ensure that they were included.

The BMC are a much larger organisation, of course, with a full time staff and around 76,000 members.  They are also very proactive in access matters both locally and nationally.

The BCA are in contact and the BMC have generously offeredsome advice and support to the BCA campaign.  So a big thumbs up for the BMC from me  :thumbsup:

Climbing wasn't specifically excluded in the original wording, but was outside the allowed activities - which were basically "crossing land with only that which is necessary for you to cross it"

It's quite noticeable now that it was added:
Quote
You can use access land for walking, running, watching wildlife and climbing.

Mike

Offline cavemanmike

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Re: BCA AGM - CRoW Report
« Reply #141 on: June 08, 2016, 11:14:41 pm »
Emoticon = chirpy chinwag

No emoticon = subversive trolling; that's how it works, isn't it? Pretty sure that's how people who appear to be suggesting criminal acts get away with their comments here on other topics. e.g. gate-breaking.

Quite happy to be considered a contributor to the forum. Just ignore the mod status thingy and all should be well.

maybe i'm just old fashioned (or just old) but i would expect someone in a moderator's position to be less provocative. obviously not

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: BCA AGM - CRoW Report
« Reply #142 on: June 08, 2016, 11:16:18 pm »
Maybe if I wasn't a moderator I could be far more provocative.

Offline mikem

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Re: BCA AGM - CRoW Report
« Reply #143 on: June 08, 2016, 11:21:38 pm »
Most of the warnings are for comments of a more personal nature...

Mike