Earliest use by cavers of electron ladders
- Thread starter Pitlamp
- Start date
Jim MacPherson
Member
There's an earlier thread about "Elektron Ladders" from 2011 in the technical section (don't know how to put a link in here) with a reference to Casteret's "10 years under the earth" and there are two photos in my edition (1940) one in the illustration of the electron ladder p 32-33 and another called 'into the abyss' p 208 - 209, given the publication date mid-1930's photos seems reasonable. If time allows I'll try and trudge through the text and see if any comments are made. As I'm somewhat less old than that I can say, with more confidence, NCRMS were using an idiosyncratic mix of rope and wire ladders into the mid-1960's, perhaps Mike Gill has access to some earlier archive photos in NMRS hoard or Mike Luff at PDMHS likewise?
Possibly some caving club has digitised their journals etc with an OCR read facility? Slightly irrelevantly Teesdale Mercury did and that proved quite useful, allowing for it's inherent clunkiness, for some mining history research.
Jim
Jim MacPherson
Member
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AR
Well-known member
I don't think there'll be anything much in the PDMHS archive pre-1960, though there's a few early (mid-late 1950s) underground photos in Jim Rieuwerts' archive. The club to talk to about pre-WW2 photos would be the Derbyshire Pennine Club, given the long time they've been in existence.
Pitlamp
Well-known member
OK, I'll come clean; can anyone beat the following little snippet?
"The party had a wire rope ladder, 42 feet long, divided into three sections of 14 feet, fastened and unfastened by means of dog clasps . . . . . . . . each member of the party had a section wrapped around his body, immediately under the armpits. The ladder was of such width that it rested on the hips, and required no fastening over the arms, thus leaving them quite free."
This came to my attention by pure chance recently; it's on pages 304-305 in The Gentleman's Magazine (Volume CCLXXXII, January to June 1897) in an article entitled "In Subterranean Caves" by Walter Wood.
So was the electron ladder invented by Victorian cavers?!
(Just thought it was worth putting this on record in a rather more accessible place than a 19th Century publication.)
"The party had a wire rope ladder, 42 feet long, divided into three sections of 14 feet, fastened and unfastened by means of dog clasps . . . . . . . . each member of the party had a section wrapped around his body, immediately under the armpits. The ladder was of such width that it rested on the hips, and required no fastening over the arms, thus leaving them quite free."
This came to my attention by pure chance recently; it's on pages 304-305 in The Gentleman's Magazine (Volume CCLXXXII, January to June 1897) in an article entitled "In Subterranean Caves" by Walter Wood.
So was the electron ladder invented by Victorian cavers?!
(Just thought it was worth putting this on record in a rather more accessible place than a 19th Century publication.)
Jim MacPherson
Member
And in Long Churn too, think Dolly Tubs must have been done on rope, the pdf I got to wasn't of the best. It does rather imply this was already a used technique, so perhaps there's more that even predates this evidence (seems to give a date of 1894). Wonder what the rungs were made of, possibly not aluminium and the width of armpit to hip seems quite generous, they were hard in those days!
JIm
JIm
Bob Mehew
Well-known member
I don't have access but try Bristol Exploration Club (BEC) : Belfry Bulletin529 (Summer 2008) as the BCL catalogue cites an article by Dave Irwin with an extract which states: "The Caving Ladder ... your flexible friend - from Chinese in the 14th century (perhaps), via Beaumont in Lamb Leer (1676), Absolom in Moravia, France, Alum Pot (1848) and GG; the first wire-rope ladder used by Dawson at Alum in 1894; De Joly's 'Electron' ladder in 1930's France, and first use in Swildon's in 1943 ..."
As I recall electron relates to an alloy of magnesium, strictly speaking Elektron alloy. No doubt other metals were also used. So I suspect you need to differentiate between ladders made with different materials and also between the various methods for 'pinning' the wire to the rung.
As I recall electron relates to an alloy of magnesium, strictly speaking Elektron alloy. No doubt other metals were also used. So I suspect you need to differentiate between ladders made with different materials and also between the various methods for 'pinning' the wire to the rung.
Pitlamp
Well-known member
Thanks Bob - and yes, the article I mentioned refers to a Harold Dawson of Bradford, who led the trip in Long Churn which Walter Wood described. It also makes clear this was not the first descent of this system by Dawson, who was also, apparently, an avid cave photographer.
Re. the precise meaning of "electron" / Elektron in this context; you're absolutely right of course. I did ponder on mentioning the distinction but thought it better to keep things simple. OK then, let's specify "metal-runged wire rope ladders" to get us out of that one!
Just to be clear, I have no special interest in this topic; I just thought it was worth flagging up the very early reference to this type of caving ladder, so it's on record (together with any earlier ones folk come up with).
Jim MacPherson
Member
Having read the article from 1897 again, it suggests they used the 60 ft of knotted rope to get down Dolly Tubs and either used the wire ladders to get down the 25ft drop to the ledge before the Greasy Slab or an additional 'rope ladder' they had with them. Presumably the 50ft drop into Alum Pot was done using the reused(?) wire ladders with some rope dangling as one of the party seemed to have slipped at or near this point and it's a bit unclear how the last 25 ft was dealt with as there is a suggestion they were a bit exposed in respect to a return in that section of the trip. But bold stuff and I empathise with getting stuck on the wire as I managed the same as I was wearing hiking boots in our effort.
Early trips usually left one "man" at the top of each pitch to belay / haul.
Wikipedia credits Robert de joly with inventing electron ladders (see History): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caving_equipment
Wikipedia credits Robert de joly with inventing electron ladders (see History): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caving_equipment
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As does the elektron ladder thread mentioned above.
The alloy was created in 1909 & it's lighter than aluminium - used for incendiaries towards the end of WW1 (& aircraft frames): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elektron_(alloy)
The alloy was created in 1909 & it's lighter than aluminium - used for incendiaries towards the end of WW1 (& aircraft frames): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elektron_(alloy)
Pitlamp
Well-known member
That's interesting. So the Elektron alloy came in 1909 but Dawson was caving on metal runged wire rope ladders in the late 1800s. So maybe De Joly should be stripped of this accolade? (Or at least the device was already in existence and De Joly just used a different metal for his rungs?)
As we were "robbed" of our most famous pothole by the French (LOL) this somehow seems rather fitting!
As we were "robbed" of our most famous pothole by the French (LOL) this somehow seems rather fitting!
Well, first use can't have been before early 1830s: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_rope
Article mentioned by Bob: https://bec-cave.org.uk/belfry-bulletin-no-529-spring-2008/#Your_Flexible_Friend_8230_the_Ladder
Article mentioned by Bob: https://bec-cave.org.uk/belfry-bulletin-no-529-spring-2008/#Your_Flexible_Friend_8230_the_Ladder
Google Books search for elektron ladder
1929 · Snippet view
Found inside – Page 53
The route from Camp 1 to Camp 2 is rather steep at the beginning and we use some elektron ladders to climb an iced rock - wall . On 21 September we established Camp 3 at 7150 m , very close to the top of the West Shoulder .
1948 · No preview
1951 · Snippet view
Found inside – Page 327
ladders both electron and wire ...
Guido Magnone · 1955 · Snippet view
Found inside – Page 163
ELEKTRON LADDER : Ladder in light alloy . LM ÉTRIERS : Very short rope ladders of one , two or three rungs in wood or duralumin . Attached to a piton , they make up for missing holds .
Guy de Lavaur · 1958 · Snippet view
Found inside – Page 168
The “ Elektron ” ladder is rapidly ousting the rope ladder ...
The Himalayan Journal - Volumes 40-41 - Page 53
books.google.co.uk › books1929 · Snippet view
Found inside – Page 53
The route from Camp 1 to Camp 2 is rather steep at the beginning and we use some elektron ladders to climb an iced rock - wall . On 21 September we established Camp 3 at 7150 m , very close to the top of the West Shoulder .
The Transactions of the Cave Research Group - Volumes 1-2 - Page 70
books.google.co.uk › books1948 · No preview
Cave Science - Volume 2, Issues 9-16 - Page 327
books.google.co.uk › books1951 · Snippet view
Found inside – Page 327
ladders both electron and wire ...
The West Face - Page 163
books.google.co.uk › booksGuido Magnone · 1955 · Snippet view
Found inside – Page 163
ELEKTRON LADDER : Ladder in light alloy . LM ÉTRIERS : Very short rope ladders of one , two or three rungs in wood or duralumin . Attached to a piton , they make up for missing holds .
Caves and Cave Diving - Page 168
books.google.co.uk › booksGuy de Lavaur · 1958 · Snippet view
Found inside – Page 168
The “ Elektron ” ladder is rapidly ousting the rope ladder ...
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1943 The BEC were the first club in Britain to use Electron Ladder, on the 12m pot in Swildons.
www.cravenpotholeclub.org
1940 to 1949
Craven Pothole Club - Caving and Potholing in the Yorkshire Dales and beyond
Mountaineering ladders are more likely to be lightweight normal fixed design. The etriers however were using duralumin rungs.
But, de Joly's ladders appear to have been the same alloy with copper that we use today:
en.m.wikipedia.org
But, de Joly's ladders appear to have been the same alloy with copper that we use today:
Duralumin - Wikipedia
ZombieCake
Well-known member
Were there issues with some wire rope ladders or belays having hemp cores or similar leading to failure?
Yes, it's mentioned in the previous threads about ladders.
The 1897 article says it was a wire rope, but doesn't say what the rungs were made of - certainly wasn't aluminium tube, as that was first produced around the start of the first world war: http://www.aluminium-tubes.org/history.html
Link to a copy of the article (although not all easily legible) can be found at: https://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/serial?id=gentlemans
The 1897 article says it was a wire rope, but doesn't say what the rungs were made of - certainly wasn't aluminium tube, as that was first produced around the start of the first world war: http://www.aluminium-tubes.org/history.html
Link to a copy of the article (although not all easily legible) can be found at: https://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/serial?id=gentlemans
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Pitlamp
Well-known member
Yes - but that came to a head in the late 1960s following an accident in the Kingsdale Mater Cave, which led to a serious injury (and permanent disability). I think the problem was that the swages were correctly fitted but when the hemp core rotted the swages then became less firm, which could lead to failure. The hemp core would also trap water for long periods, which promoted corrosion of the wire.
In the NPC library there is an X ray photograph of the failure in question. Part of the same photograph appears in the Eyre / Frankland book Race Against Time, where the story of the incident receives some attention..