Access to Rhiwbach
- Thread starter M1TNW
- Start date
Cantclimbtom
Well-known member
Maybe useful info here?
M1TNW
New member
Thanks for the link.
I have had a good look and what I could find just seems to point back to CAL, unless I'm missing something. If you know of anything that may be hidden somewhere?
Thanks to you and all in advance.
Pete K
Well-known member
CAL is defunct. Quick answer is that because there is no group administering access for explorers for NRW, then there is no mechanism for people like yourself to get permission for access. The commercial and outdoor centre users have licences directly with NRW. Unfortunately, the only way that explorers can go into Rhiwbach currently is a bit of a bandit run and you need to see if you know anyone who would tell you the gate code, but of course that would be naughty. It's also naughty to go in via the broken security fence in the quarry at the top of the hill.
(By naughty I also mean actually illegal. There are bylaws covering access to mines on NRW land that puts it beyond mere trespass.)
(By naughty I also mean actually illegal. There are bylaws covering access to mines on NRW land that puts it beyond mere trespass.)
M1TNW
New member
Morning Pete,
Thanks for the detail, that helps a lot.
I do still have the code from when we went last time, maybe we'll be lucky and it's still the same.
Yep, I certainly wouldn't want to get into trouble with NRW!!!!!
Best regards, Jim
Or book a trip with one of the licenced operators - there's no chance of the code being the same:
Dave Tyson
Member
To be honest the chances of you being caught by NRW are practically zero unless you have an accident.
They are completely disorganised and disfunctional, all the good people left a long time ago, and what is left seem to concentrate on generating documents on the way forward - but without any money to spend. TBH it eould be better if it was split back up into the original groups : forestry, counryside and environment.
I can understand the commercial providers (Pete, Miles) point of view as money is tight and any extra revenue is welcome. But for experienced mine-xplorers to have to book a trip where they have to obey the leader (else commercial insurance is void) just doesn't seem fair...
They are completely disorganised and disfunctional, all the good people left a long time ago, and what is left seem to concentrate on generating documents on the way forward - but without any money to spend. TBH it eould be better if it was split back up into the original groups : forestry, counryside and environment.
I can understand the commercial providers (Pete, Miles) point of view as money is tight and any extra revenue is welcome. But for experienced mine-xplorers to have to book a trip where they have to obey the leader (else commercial insurance is void) just doesn't seem fair...
M1TNW
New member
Excellently put.
bagpuss
Well-known member
We went with Go Below and weren't impressed, you don't get to see that much and how much you see is dependant on group ability. Ended up having to help one group member whilst the guide kept heading off far ahead.
Stuart France
Well-known member
All that landowners of mines are legally required to do by the Mines & Quarries Act is to prevent accidental access for which (say) a barbed wire fence will suffice. I asked NRW, as the landowner, to fence a new collapse which had opened up somewhere in North Wales, which they did many months later with a few sections of Heras fencing which anyone can get underneath - and that's all they've done as the fencing and the hole are still there! NRW made the effort, albeit tardily, and squeezing underneath a fence is hardly an accident, so it ticks the boxes.
The problem with mines like Rhiwbach is that the Forestry Bylaws make it an offence to enter mines on government land without permission or an obvious sign inviting explorers. Going into a mine anywhere else without permission (other than coal mines) is only trespass provided there is no damage.
Owners of caves or any land only have a duty of care to visitors, including unwanted trespassers, which is set out in the Occupiers Liability Acts and subsequent case law. In most cases if visitors embrace obvious risk, like climb a crag or explore a cave or race a motorbike, then they are responsible for the outcomes. Landowners or "Occupiers" should focus on unobvious risks like an open shaft or buildings in a state of collapse. Even so it can easily be argued that people should look where they are putting their feet and understand that loose masonry can fall apart at any time. Hence why so many former mines, including those on NRW-managed land, do nothing of a practical nature to mitigate that kind of risk lest any mitigation measures fall into disrepair and the owner/occupier is then held responsible for their inadequate maintenance.
NRW has been on a frolic in the last year or two arguing that people and organisations that negotiate access to caves become "Occupiers" within the meaning of the OLA, but it has died down - we hope. Being an Occupier also creates nature conservation responsibilities and legal duties under the Wildlife & Countryside Act which is what gives NRW a handle to prosecute you which motivates them. At times I feel that confliction and being generally unhelpful to everyone and everything that comes their way is viewed internally as a performance indicator.
moorfurlong
Member
Its a no go for explorers currrentley, access is not approved no off NRW ( Natural Resource Wales )
moorfurlong
Member
How did that work, they are not allowed to give code out, nor can you book with GB to go in Rhiwbach. Never has been the case ???
Pete K
Well-known member
He means he booked onto a guided trip with them as a customer. GB do not give out the code.
Stuart France
Well-known member
Apparently NRW is going to clear fell the pine forestry around Rhiwbach and not replace it. Easier to spot intruders and great for global warming.
Dave Tyson
Member
Well I guess one the felling is complete then maybe ecologically minded people may wander around there dropping ash, sycamore and a few other native tree seeds. A bonus would be some young oak, hornbeam and willow seedlings. Good for the enviroment and provides cover for would (wood?) be mine-explorers.
Dave
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