Andalusian knot

[Joe Duxbury]

Are any of you familiar with the Andalusian knot?

I came across it being used by some Italian cavers. It was said to be not well-known, and not very widespread, but some tests say that it is stronger than a figure-of-eight knot.
There's a YouTube video showing how to tie it:

If it is better, why is it not used more?

 

[Mark Wright]

Is it a knot or is it a hitch?

I think most cavers arriving at a pitch head with one of those in the end of the rope wouldn't have the first clue
what it was or whether it was tied correctly. Probably a good thing it's not so widespread.

Stronger doesn't necessarily mean better.

 

[cap n chris]

Looks like a slightly more complicated version of a Polish Hitch.

 

[caving_fox]

Looks like it uses less rope than a fig8.
I've never been worried about the strength of a knot, surely the least risky factor.

 

[Mark Wright]

Looks like it uses less rope than a fig8.

Good point. It might give you that extra inch when your rope is too short.

 

[AlexR]

Better is a matter of opinion I’d say. I love learning new knots (and hitches, and bends ), but probably wouldn’t choose this one for caving as it
a) looks quite messy (difficult to inspect)
b) doesn’t form an eye, which is quite a useful feature. Especially if it forms a shelf like bowline-family knots.

 

[mikem]

Seems to be a clove hitch with a twist added

 

[Boy Engineer]

Seems to be a clove hitch with a twist added

Like Denise Royle and the CupASoup.

 

[Fred]

Looks a bit like a Nudo Joanet which someone (I can't remember who) showed me a few years back.

This PDF has a section in English (after the Spanish) for those interested https://www.viajarruteando.com/MATERIAL/PDF/NUDO_JOANET.pdf or there's always Youtube.

 

[mikem]

Similar, but andaluz both ends come down from the knot together, whilst joanet they are split by one of the loops

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Seems to be a clove hitch with a twist added

That's the 1st thing I thought when I saw it.
The 2nd thing I thought was it looks like it'll be easier to untie after repeated loading than a fig 8.
The 3rd thing I thought is few people will know how to check it.

On traverses, I sometimes use clove hitch, thinking about it I've not noticed anyone else do that. Could it be clove hitch isn't seen as a caving-knot ("hitch" for the pedants ) because it doesn't fit in an oval maillon, although fine in a krab? I think clove hitches are great as they're quick to tie and adjust.

P.s. I wish spell correct would stop "correcting" to Clive hitch, apologies for any above I may have missed

 

[hannahb]

On traverses, I sometimes use clove hitch, thinking about it I've not noticed anyone else do that. Could it be clove hitch isn't seen as a caving-knot ("hitch" for the pedants ) because it doesn't fit in an oval maillon, although fine in a krab? I think clove hitches are great as they're quick to tie and adjust.

We had this conversation at home yesterday. Clove hitches can loosen if not loaded, and they don't provide an eye or loop to clip into and dangle, or fit in maillons, as you say. But they use less rope than other knots and are useful if you're short on rope in some circumstances, such as the middle of traverse lines but not at the end of a rope.

 

[hannahb]

Ha, it "features" in the latest Descent Guess that's me told

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Ha, it "features" in the latest Descent Guess that's me told

View attachment 24771

Meh.. look how spotlessly clean the helmet and oversuit are, must be a fake AI photo

 

[cap n chris]

We had this conversation at home yesterday. Clove hitches can loosen if not loaded, and they don't provide an eye or loop to clip into and dangle, or fit in maillons, as you say. But they use less rope than other knots and are useful if you're short on rope in some circumstances, such as the middle of traverse lines but not at the end of a rope.

Clove hitches are functional, but have cons; over a decade back we revisited a marvellous cave (Sima Republicano) in Andalusia and I was rigging a long traverse section; I remembered it was prolonged and although I had a 100m rope for the traverse (9.8mm Beal spelenium gold) there was a doubt whether it would be long enough so opted to use clove hitches rather than any other knot. All worked a treat. But. (There's always a "but", isn't there?!).. I wasn't derigging after everyone had been there and back. Apparently it's a right cnut trying to derig synched-tight/loaded clove hitches on a nicely horizontal traverse (loading at anchors is usually around 160% of mass mid-point) and I was told afterwards that it was nigh-on impossible to loosen them. So, lesson learned. Don't use clove hitches on traverses. The Spaniards didn't like it either, calling CH's a "Devil, or Death, Knot". I didn't find out why they called it that. Anyone know?