BOX MINE: NEW GATES 2005

[cap n chris]

English Nature have a statutory duty to protect the resident bat colonies within Box Mine - the main cause of concern presently being a "catastrophic event" (vandals/itinerants lighting a bonfire within the mine and wiping out large numbers of bats).

As a result EN, in consultation with landowners, are installing gates on all entrances to Box Mine during 2005. The Council of Southern Caving Clubs' general meeting in February 2005 considered the first draft of the proposed access policy and feedback from the wider caving/underground community is being sought. EN fully acknowledge that ease of access to the site is of the utmost importance in order to avoid unknown persons mechanically bypassing the new gates/grilles. With this in mind they are inviting feedback from as many user groups as possible; Descent magazine is also covering this topic.

Of the three suggested "closed seasons" CSCC strongly urged EN to allow unrestricted access to Box Mine throughout the year on the grounds that the size of the passages and length of the mine is so great that multiple user groups should be able to visit without jeopardising resident bat colonies; a combination lock or multiple keys being available at, say, the Quarryman's Arms have been suggested; also suggested was using the CSCC standard padlock for which many clubs have a key.

The CSCC general meeting also urged that insurance should not be required by visitors to the site; it is hoped that by arguing for the least restrictive access policy, the new gates/grilles will remain intact, serving their primary purpose of protecting wildlife, while allowing all interested parties continued unfettered access to this fascinating underground complex.

Please reply with your considered thoughts and opinions on this topic; all views will be taken into account by EN in their access policy. The more views, the better. What do you think? Should gates be installed? How should bats be protected? What's the best way of securing the site? Who should have keys/combination? Should it be "access for all"? Access versus conservation... your views, please.

Anyone wishing to create a link to this topic is very welcome to do so. More cavers' views = more representations we can make on behalf of the UK caving community.

 

[Mine Explorer]

Whilst I'd prefer to see Box remain ungated, I also acknowledge that if it is deemed necessary for bat reasons, then there is little you can do to stop it happening and it is then a case of ensuring access is still available for those who wish to visit in a responsible manner.

I am against 'closed seasons' as the exact time over which bats are tucked up for the winter varies from year to year depending on weather conditions and food. A closed season is inevitably going to be longer than the actual hibernation period to ensure no disturbance to snoozing bats before the start of the closure, and to make sure they're well out of hibernation at the end of the closed season.

I see combination locks only having a limited use, as the number will inevitably become known, at which point the lock is as good as useless. In a similar way having a system where you collect keys from the local pub is fraught with problems: What happens if the pub isn't open/no answer at the time you wish to start your trip? How do the pub know if you're responsible or not? Being able to purchase keys from the pub might be better, but again, how does the landlord know if you're responsible or not. If they give keys to anyone who turns up and asks, the keys are again pretty useless in protecting the site.

If the aim of the gates is to stop the risk of camp fires being lit underground by the irresponsible, then it is necessary to police who keys are given to. Whether people like clubs/insurance or not, that is one easy way of knowing if someone really is serious about going underground, otherwise what is stopping someone saying they're responsible just to get a key, then going camping with their mates once a month and starting a camp fire.

I don't think there are any easy answers, a CSCC lock ain't going to help clubs (or individuals) that aren't members of the CSCC! Our club doesn't go ‘caving' in that area so isn't a member and as such ain't got a key.

I think the best answer is to apply in writing to a given address for a key (and a nominal charge for key cutting). If you're prepared to write in advance stating your interest, I feel you're serious enough not to go lighting fires, especially if a list of “please do and don't” is included with the key, possibly indicating areas to avoid during the hibernation period. Unfortunately this would need someone to administer it.

Ultimately so long as keys are available I don't think it matters too much. A couple of years ago we had a club trip to the area. During our weekend we wanted to visit Browns Folly, so I made contact in advance and was sent a key along with a request not to cause disturbance during the hibernation season. We now have a key for any future visits we make. I don't see why the same approach can't be taken at Box.

 

[dunc]

I would normally be against gating on the whole but as it is a site used by bats and regretably some undesirable types then I feel gating is of benefit, on various conditions..

Access should be all year - no closed season.. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Aggy an important bat site and that to my knowledge has no closed season? Perhaps some information could be given as to areas to avoid at certain times of the year and any other information regarding bats be given to those that seek access?

Combo locks are a good idea, but the number would need changing on a regular basis (what time-scale I don't know) so that application for access would require obtaining a new number every so often. Otherwise you end up with everyone knowing the number and basically end up back where we are now..
If the way forward is keys then they should be available without any undue hassle - more preferably by an on the day basis rather than in advance.

Insurance should not be needed, it never has so why now?

I can't see any problems from the caving community if access is easy, unrestricted and fuss-free.

 

[jasonbirder]

If the reason for gating is to discourage casual access by vandals & hooligans - then surely keys available at the Quarrymans arms will be enough - whilst no-one would expect the bar staff to make decisions as to who is/isn`t responsible I would have thought that merely having to ask for a key/leave a deposit was deterrent enough to put off the average burberry clab Nova driver
Writing in advance requesting a key strikes me as being too restrictive as it would mean having to plan every trip well over a week in advance to allow receipt/dispatch - so no more deciding you have a free day and going on the spur of the moment...
As my name indicates I am an extremely keen and active birdwatcher and have plenty of experience with (above ground!) sites where there are species sensative to disturbance (much more so than hibernating bats) and by and large with a little bit of common sense - access is not a problem without too many draconian measures - surely a similar situation can apply here...

 

[darkplaces]

Sorry sorry not advertising just pulling together cross forum discussions.
Box freestone gateing disccusion here too;
http://www.c**tplaces.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=345
Respective link posted to ukcaving.

Box has been open for the past 30 years providing meny with a first taste of a place to explore. Meny have cought the caving bug from box myself included. I would love Box to remain open and feel gateing the quarry is a battle lost. I am willing to accept the gates with no access restrictions and the keys available to non-insured people without needing the bureaucratic begging letters currently demanded by the forest of dean. Many who visit are not hard core cavers like meny of you but interested people who want a few hours walk about the main passageways to look at the history as easy as going to the cinema, whats wrong with that.... Vandals and fire lighters are oppatunists and collecting a key from the pub will stop some of them, also having to sign in maybe leaving a mobile number and people reporting damage will go some way to reducing harm. Its been made clear that over restrictive access will result in gates and locks being cut off. I am an not trying to threaten anyone just stateing what I know will happen. With unrestrictve access myself and other c**tplaces-locals will work to promote sensable use and will activly watchout for and report damage.

 

[caveman]

Box is indeed a fantastic mine but due to mindless idiots over the years it has become a mess
i can totaly understand why they want to gate it and protect the bats .
I do think it is a big shame it will be gated as it has always been open for any one to explore and i have had many a trip into the far corners of the place
I would asume there will be some sort of access conditions set up for clubs at certain times of the year ?
it will in a lot of ways not only protect the bats but also any history that remains that has not been spray painted or damaged

 

[Mine Explorer]

....Writing in advance requesting a key strikes me as being too restrictive as it would mean having to plan every trip well over a week in advance to allow receipt/dispatch - so no more deciding you have a free day and going on the spur of the moment....

Whoops, don't get me wrong. Having to write and apply every time one wants to visit would be a right pain. What I was suggesting was a similar situation to at Browns Folly, one letter produced one key that we now hold ourselves. We can return at any time, day or night, and although requested not to create a disturbance during the hibernation period (which would be illegal anyway) there are no physical barriers preventing trips during the hibernation season.

Personally I don't like 'collect the key from' schemes as there are restrictions on when you can have a trip (a spur of the moment trip starting at 8am would not be too popular with a landlord who was working until late) although I accept that picking a key up from a public house is better than a private residence - at least there are known opening hours!

 

[cap n chris]

Almost forgot, CSCC General Meeting also wished there to be no stated group size limit.

 

[Mole]

I feel limiting the size of groups would stop the "crocodiles" one comes across in Box,I'm sure the noise and heat given out by one of these isn't good near bats.

If you take anything into Box,it's a good idea to take it out as well.

A couple of Darkplaces members have been taking binbags in with them,and collecting the rubbish that mysteriously appears in various places u/g.

 

[cap n chris]

Good idea - a commendable thing to do.

 

[caveman]

It is indeed good to see people are making the effort to clean up after the mindless idiots have been round
the cathedral is a compleat mess were over the years it has been used as a tip and is a big shame to see such a once great place destroyed of its former glory

 

[Mole]

Most of the stuff in the Cathedral has come in via the shaft unfortunately,and I can remember when the well was about 40ft deep.

 

[cap n chris]

English Nature have postponed the installation of gates at Box Mine until September 2005. While I have no further details just yet (shall keep this thread posted) please continue to keep the feedback on access coming since this side of things may still be a live issue. Have had good feedback so far.

 

[cap n chris]

NEWS FROM ENGLISH NATURE JUST IN: (Tuesday 23rd May 06, 11:25am)

Dates for installation of grilles at Back Door and "The Grille" (not much used, apparently) are:

Wednesday to Friday 24-26 May.

Woodland grilles will be placed at Jack's entrance and Lady Hamilton's
between now and end of July (date not yet set but I will advise as
soon as I know it). English Nature have agreed following a recommendation by their contractor that Lady Hamilton's is to be permanently grilled due to instability of the surrounding rocks.

Even though Box Mine will remain accessible* for the time being while the remaining work continues, the distribution of "keys" for opening the grilles will commence. For further details/"key" contact:
canda@cscc.org.uk

* Note: access is unauthorised and visitors do so at their own risk.

 

[graham]

can I open a book on how long they will last?

Disclaimer, I personally would never condone the damage or removal of the legitimately placed property of others.

 

[darkplaces]

I'll try and get photos up when I can.

It's totally unoffical but I intend to put a notice up (unless thats being done already???) Something to the effect of 'You dont need to break in just ask for a trip via... then a link to http://www.c**tplaces.co.uk/box and/or cscc website and/or the canada@cscc.' What do you think Cap 'n, I think it needs something but as access officer I am happy for your thoughts.

Success depends on getting the word out, and not imposing restrictions were non have existed for over 30 years.

I havent done Lady Hamilitons for years, wont really miss that entrance.

I'v volunteered to cover the Box area mines etc when MRO were asking for people recently.

Hope you dont mind Cap 'n I quoted the post at c**tplaces with links.

 

[darkplaces]

WIll they need people to sweep then system before closing the final gates?

 

[cap n chris]

It's going to take a couple of months before the grillles are completed.

Also, the grilles can be opened from the inside WITHOUT a key so no-one can be locked in!

Signs with CSCC contact details are part of the installation but if other people wish to put up contact info then that's fine by me! - the more local, the better IMHO, since I live 20+ miles away.

 

[cap n chris]

DP, feel free to copy stuff for your website!.... your site won't let me in so I can't post there!

 

[chriscastle46]

Chris,

What on earth is a "woodland grill"? I't won't be very effective if it's made of wood. "The Grill" is rarely used because the survey states "No Entry". Does this mean Lady Hamilton's Entrance is to be permanently closed?

Chris