Brands/Equipment UK Cavers Would Like Us to Stock

[Steve Clark]

That's odd because there's loads of people selling them on eBay.

They are all unofficial individuals though. Re-selling surplus (dare I say stolen from site) bits. They are priced such that they can't have been purchased from Hilti legitimately, VAT dealt with properly and sold for a taxable profit. Even with Hilti bulk discounts.

A proper shop can't function like that. They need a proper business relationship with their supply chain. Hilti just don't allow their consumables to be sold like this, particularly for creative uses.

 

[andrewmcleod]

They are all unofficial individuals though. Re-selling surplus (dare I say stolen from site) bits. They are priced such that they can't have been purchased from Hilti legitimately, VAT dealt with properly and sold for a taxable profit. Even with Hilti bulk discounts.

A proper shop can't function like that. They need a proper business relationship with their supply chain. Hilti just don't allow their consumables to be sold like this, particularly for creative uses.

A single 12mm 150mm Hilti TE-CX drill bit from the Hilti website is currently £46.50, which is absurd. I can only assume they don't really have any interest in selling individual drill bits except to people with more money than sense. If you buy 32 they are £22.60 each which is less than half price, and says that the single drill bit price is more than 50% markup _on top_ of the markup required for profit.
Or you can buy the same drill bit for £14.99 on eBay, which I presume is slightly more than the bulk trade price (eBay sellers often run on very low margins, and most won't be VAT-registered).

 

[JAshley73]

May I ask what's so special about the Hilti bits?

Looks like you can buy Bosch SDS bits online, for very affordable prices. Here's a Ø10mm x 100mm bit from Bosch, for £4.00 including the VAT...

https://www.bosch-professional.com/gb/en/sds-plus-3-hammer-drill-bits-2867846-ocs-ac/

 

[andrewmcleod]

The four-pointed cross-head drill bits are generally considered 'better' (quicker to drill? last longer?). They are also required for using with the Petzl Pulse removable bolts (they give a better rounder hole), although that's a pretty niche use.

Unless the head falls off your virtually-new Hilti cross-head drill bit of course (as happened to me), although at least Hilti seem to be pretty good at replacing things (even though I'd actually bought the drill bit in 2017 as part of a set and just hadn't used it almost at all since then).

 

[Ed]

I know a few of us would appreciate an easy supply of replacement bars for BMS Micro Racks (with and without the hyperbar(s) )

Or micro racks themselves.

I fancy one but import makes it expensive

 

[PeteHall]

May I ask what's so special about the Hilti bits?

Looks like you can buy Bosch SDS bits online, for very affordable prices. Here's a Ø10mm x 100mm bit from Bosch, for £4.00 including the VAT...

https://www.bosch-professional.com/gb/en/sds-plus-3-hammer-drill-bits-2867846-ocs-ac/

If you have a long way to your dig, the drill's battery life tends to be the limiting factor, so maximising drilling efficiency is very worthwhile. I don't think it's much of an exaggeration to say that Hilti TEX bits drill about double what most other bits will do for the same battery capacity.

They also last ages and Hilti will replace for free if you manage to break one before reaching the wear-line.

Also, Hilti operate on a high-list-price, high-discount pricing model. Nobody pays list price. Just go into your local Hilti dealer choose what you need and ask what they can do on the price. 50% list price shouldn't be too hard to achieve based on passed experienced, but I haven't bought for a while, so things may be tighter now.

 

[JAshley73]

Ok, so here's a Bosch "4-flute" Ø10 x 100mm drill for £11.69, VAT included...

https://www.bosch-professional.com/gb/en/expert-sds-plus-7x-hammer-drill-bit-2867204-ocs-ac/

 

[Steve Clark]

There’s normally some kind of deal to be had with Hilti. They are good at building you a solution for a particular problem, that you then buy in bulk, whilst keeping the list price high for those who order for convenience with no thought about cost.

As an example, we use a lot of Hilti HUS 6mm concrete screws (For hanging suspended ceilings) and 6mm 100mm TE-CX drill bits. The drill bit list price is £21. We buy a box of 100 screws and a ‘free’/included drill bit for about £10.

The Hilti cordless SDS drills are also superb, but the cost is now a bit ridiculous. 3x the price of Makita. Hilti’s biggest battery alone is about £300.

 

[Steve Clark]

Also, with the above example, the bits last longer than 100 screws so we do end up with a pile of spare bits. Which I guess we could sell on ebay. Some other eBay stuff may appear because of things like this. Or because someone has bought 1000 of something to lower the unit rate and has loads left over.

With some Hilti deals you get a ‘free’ tool with say 20,000 fixings. This is good for accounting because you’re buying consumables rather than something that you need hold as a £1000 capital asset and depreciate annually etc.

 

[JAshley73]

With some Hilti deals you get a ‘free’ tool with say 20,000 fixings. This is good for accounting because you’re buying consumables rather than something that you need hold as a £1000 capital asset and depreciate annually etc.

I can see that being of value for construction companies. Us cavers though, footing the bill out of own pockets however...?

 

[cavemanmike]

Its the striking rods I’m more interested in

 

[Steve Clark]

I can see that being of value for construction companies. Us cavers though, footing the bill out of own pockets however...?

…buy Makita. Cheaper, lighter, standard batteries for other tools and almost as good.

 

[JAshley73]

…buy Makita. Cheaper, lighter, standard batteries for other tools and almost as good.

I was speaking moreso for the drill bits. And just using Bosch as an example. I have no affiliation with them, I just know they have a large lineup of masonry bits.

(I'll quit beating a dead horse now, promise.)

 

[Inglesport]

Firstly, thanks very much for your comments, everyone! It's really appreciated.

We’ve tried several times to source decent smaller wellies (UK3 to UK6) but they tend to be either junior, lower quality, or too expensive for caving! But, we haven’t given up trying and are looking at another manufacturer at the moment.

Some of the more specialist manufacturers are expensive to import commercially so the products end up costing us almost the same as you can buy them for online. Again, we haven't given up.

On the up side, the Rock Empire harnesses should be here very soon (CT and Landjoff we already stock).

We’ll look into all the other suggestions, so watch this space…

 

[Inglesport]

Puzzled you have several brands of hand ascender, but no camp turbohand given you are good enough to sell both turbochest and turbofoot?

We should have a larger range of Camp Turbo ascenders in stock going forward.

The Camp distributer/importer in the UK has changed three times in the last few years so supply has been problematic. Hopefully it's now settling down and we'll have them back on the shelf.

 

[Inglesport]

Additionally...

We'd like to stock some of the other items that's been suggested but telling our insurers that we're selling unofficial parts for descenders—and small amounts of explosives—probably wouldn't help our premium...

 

[Rob]

I know a few of us would appreciate an easy supply of replacement bars for BMS Micro Racks (with and without the hyperbar(s) )

Another +1 for these please. Getting small orders from USA costs too much.

 

[PeteHall]

Another +1 for these please. Getting small orders from USA costs too much.

You could probably find someone local who can make you some new ones cheaper than importing. In the past, I've made solid mild steel replacement bars, I'm sure stainless tube wouldn't be much harder...

 

[Cantclimbtom]

... I’m more interested in

Yes, I gathered the fairly long 8mm drill bit request was probably related to persuasive methods rather than drilling for anchor placement

 

[Ian Ball]

Type A less than 10.5mm semi-static rope would be nice. My favourite was the Teufelberger Platinum.