Can anyone lend us an underwater drill?

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Yep; thought of that - but not really an option as they're on a bedrock floor. Tried jacking them apart too but they go back a long way and they jammed (against other boulders) after separating them by a short distance.

There is a new ray of hope (from an email I got today from the Nemo manufacturer in America) that we might be able to get our hands on the submersible SDS drill we've been wanting all along, in a few weeks time.
 

Leclused

Active member
Hi Pitlamp,

I've asked some information from some other cavers in Belgium who also work with underwater drills.

This is how they did it with air from a tank

- They use a BH5 machine (see pdf).
- Driliing on 6 bar from divetank allows you to drill two shot holes from one tank or much more holes for plugs and feathers.
- they use a short slim hose of a fat long hose to avoid pressure loss
- they drill with the standard drills for this machine (see photo)

Drilling goes fast and easy BUT is very loud. Ear protection is a must. After usage the machine need to be greased completely to avoid corrosion/rusting.

Hope this helps you a bit.

There is also a caver in Belgium who has developped a drill bag under pressure. If you want I can give you his details via PM.
 

Attachments

  • URI-PERFORATORE-BBG-BH5-S019.pdf
    112.4 KB · Views: 116
  • IMG_0029.JPG
    IMG_0029.JPG
    73.5 KB · Views: 113
Last edited:

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Hi Pitlamp,

I've asked some information from some other cavers in Belgium who also work with underwater drills.

This is how they did it with air from a tank

- They use a BH5 machine (see pdf).
- Driliing on 6 bar from divetank allows you to drill two shot holes from one tank or much more holes for plugs and feathers.
- they use a short slim hose of a fat long hose to avoid pressure loss
- they drill with the standard drills for this machine (see photo)

Drilling goes fast and easy BUT is very loud. Ear protection is a must. After usage the machine need to be greased completely to avoid corrosion/rusting.

Hope this helps you a bit.

There is also a caver in Belgium who has developped a drill bag under pressure. If you want I can give you his details via PM.

Thanks Leclused. Yes - air drills are extremely noisy; we used them (in chisel mode) in the early days when we explored the underwater cave at Malham. I made a "sonic screen" which helped deaden the sound enormously.

Your mention of a drill bag is of interest; if we hit problems obtaining the cordless (electric) SDS drill I may well get in touch with you about that one for advice, eventiually.
 

PeteHall

Moderator
My neighbour gave me this from the back of his garage:
20220709_200750007.jpg

Need to get it running and see if it is a drill, hammer drill, or breaker, as he didn't know and Google hasn't been able to help me either...
20220709_200911761.jpg


I think it will run off the air lift compressor that we have in the Welsh CDG, so should be easy enough to test it. Just need to find a suitable bit for it. The chuck is similar to an sds, but bigger.

If I can make it drill holes underwater, you're welcome to borrow it @Pitlamp, but may not be quite what you are after.
 

Chocolate fireguard

Active member
My neighbour gave me this from the back of his garage:
View attachment 13565
Need to get it running and see if it is a drill, hammer drill, or breaker, as he didn't know and Google hasn't been able to help me either...
View attachment 13566

I think it will run off the air lift compressor that we have in the Welsh CDG, so should be easy enough to test it. Just need to find a suitable bit for it. The chuck is similar to an sds, but bigger.

If I can make it drill holes underwater, you're welcome to borrow it @Pitlamp, but may not be quite what you are after.
It looks a bit like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20382873...55-0&campid=5338722076&customid=&toolid=10050
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Looks like an air chisel Pete; if it was a drill I'd expect it to have a side bar for the left hand.

Those things make a great deal of noise in the sort of wavelengths that really damage hearing. I remember Dr. Oliver Lloyd issuing a strong warning in the CDG Newsletter in the early 80s when certain DS members were using one.

When we used one at Malham we made a "sonic screen". It was one half of a plastic tub, lined with Karrimat material and with a handle at the bottom made from a plastic pipe split lengthways. This handle fitted over the air tool's handle such that both were easily held in the right position with the diver's head behind the screen. It made a big difference. The problem, as ever with such things, is that the difference isn't easily quantifiable.

The delicate hairline nerve extensions in the cochlea (the organ of hearing in the inner ear) are very easily damaged and once they're gone, they're gone. I'd advise proceeding with great caution!
 

PeteHall

Moderator
After taking a few more pictures of the guts, @georgenorth has identified it as a hammer drill similar to this one:
IMG-20220710-WA0009.jpg


In terms of ear protection, I was thinking of those diving masks with ears, then ear plugs inside.
 

Speleofish

Active member
Caveat - I've done very little diving and am theorising, therefore this may be complete rubbish... However, I would expect a diving mask with ears and earplugs to give some protection from sound transmitted through the ear drum but it might be less effective at dealing with sound transmitted through bone which is likely to be a significant problem underwater and could be equally damaging.
 

Speleofish

Active member
As far as I understand these things, it might work. However, there may be a difference between an air bubble curtain in a wide open space and a confined one where sound can rebound from the walls....
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Some helpful suggestions here - but a small electric drill would be so much simpler . . .

I think we have a way forward for our particular project but much of the above discussion will hopefully provide a useful resource for others in future.
 

cavemanmike

Active member
Some helpful suggestions here - but a small electric drill would be so much simpler . . .

I think we have a way forward for our particular project but much of the above discussion will hopefully provide a useful resource for others in future.
Please share your way forward
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Of course - but it'll be a week or three before it comes to fruition. (We've really struggled trying to use standard drills in the wet.)
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Nothing to report as yet on this one.

But does anyone remember a demonstration on TV donkeys years ago (1980s?) where a mains electric drill had some magic spray applied then was lowered into a fish tank whilst running? It might have been on the "Tomorrow's World" programme. Just wondering whether this hydrophobic spray may be useful for cordless drills in wet situations. Is it still available? Anyone know a trade name for this sort of product?

(BTW, we've no plans to try a mains drill in a sump, obviously!)
 

Steve Clark

Well-known member
Nothing to report as yet on this one.

But does anyone remember a demonstration on TV donkeys years ago (1980s?) where a mains electric drill had some magic spray applied then was lowered into a fish tank whilst running? It might have been on the "Tomorrow's World" programme. Just wondering whether this hydrophobic spray may be useful for cordless drills in wet situations. Is it still available? Anyone know a trade name for this sort of product?

(BTW, we've no plans to try a mains drill in a sump, obviously!)

No idea about the spray, but there is a product from Ardex (WPC Flexible) that's exceptionally good as a paint-on waterproof coating. It's advertised in tiling shops by painting the inside of a carboard box and filling it with water. It happily sits in there for weeks.


I wonder if you could fit a cheap sds drill inside a plywood box, battery connected remotely, with just the drill bit poking out through a small hole in the bottom. Then paint the whole box to waterproof it and have a small air-supply to the box to pressurise the inside, bubble out through the hole and keep the water out?
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
No idea about the spray, but there is a product from Ardex (WPC Flexible) that's exceptionally good as a paint-on waterproof coating. It's advertised in tiling shops by painting the inside of a carboard box and filling it with water. It happily sits in there for weeks.


I wonder if you could fit a cheap sds drill inside a plywood box, battery connected remotely, with just the drill bit poking out through a small hole in the bottom. Then paint the whole box to waterproof it and have a small air-supply to the box to pressurise the inside, bubble out through the hole and keep the water out?

Now that's a fine bit of "thinking outside the box"! (Sorry . . . )

Seriously, an interesting idea. Would have to devise a way of operating the switch of course.
 

Steve Clark

Well-known member
Now that's a fine bit of "thinking outside the box"! (Sorry . . . )

Seriously, an interesting idea. Would have to devise a way of operating the switch of course.

Tape the trigger and then the switch could be on the battery end operated by the surface man. Then you just need to devise a signal to the surface man - semaphore fin signals?
 

Steve Clark

Well-known member
Actually, you could just do the whole thing with an old peli / otterbox case. Then you could open it to change the battery, wire the trigger to a switch through the side and supply the make-up air through a BC connector or drysuit inflate valve mounted into the side of the box (or even a 1L cylinder inside slightly cracked open)
 
Top