Charging people to enter the Peak District?

[TheBitterEnd]

You just conjoured up this mental image of the bus conductor's expression as someone tries to load on four big tanks, drysuit, scooter, a load of lead weights and a stacker box of all the associated gubbins!

Didn't Artur Koz?owski get around by bus?

 

[Mark]

?He added he feared any charge would disproportionately impact less affluent visitors.?

Yet charges ?61.00 for a family of 4 for a ticket

Feck off

 

[pwhole]

Hahah

Anyway, I regularly get on the bus with a full Berghaus rucksack, a full AV tackle sack and a Peli case with SDS drill inside - all of which steadily drips muddy water around the entrance area, until I stealthily get off two stops before the driver notices it. Then another ten mins hiking to home. It's character-building.

 

[Mark]

Another quote

"It should be free to everybody to enjoy natural beauty," he said.

Feck right off

 

[mikem]

Part of the problem with attraction prices nowadays is that they expect everyone to use discount codes, so no he doesn't get that much on average.

 

[Pitlamp]

The difference is he's trying to run a local business (providing employment) and visitors have a choice of whether to go in. Being charged to use our roads, which we've paid for via our road tax, is quite another matter.

Tseralo wrote:

"The whole thing rings of another NIMBY who is upset that more people are using something and want "their peace and quiet back"."

Yes, people should do their research before they move to an area.

Pwhole wrote:

"I regularly get on the bus with a full Berghaus rucksack, a full AV tackle sack and a Peli case with SDS drill inside"

I do something similar using the train (from choice) where possible, but I try to keep the cylinders concealed. It's a bit of a novelty. Here's an example; it's a resurgence on the sea shore at Grange-over- Sands which I checked out by train; it's literally 2 minutes stroll from the station. You can't get much more convenient than that. (The railway line runs alongside the promenade in the background.)

There's no pleasure in driving any more, so it's great to let someone else do it!

 

[2xw]

Haha, this thread making me recall my commute from Eyam to York. Get back on the train then a walk from Grindleford over the hill always took me about 40 mins. Bought a car in short order.

 

[paul]

The difference is he's trying to run a local business (providing employment) and visitors have a choice of whether to go in. Being charged to use our roads, which we've paid for via our road tax, is quite another matter.

Technically there is no such thing as a "road tax". There is an annual Vehicle Excise Duty which is a tax on a vehicle kept or used on a public highway and the money is not ring-fenced for any particular purpose but is added to a large "pot" of tax income in HM Treasury's coffers.

 

[Pitlamp]

You get taxed to use the road (which is fair enough). Therefore it's a road tax.

The details of how VED is spent are a red herring in this discussion. The point is we pay to use the roads, so we shouldn't be expected to pay again for what we've already paid for.

 

[droid]

Problem with the Peak District is that for half a century people with money have moved in and want to keep the Park the scenic idyll they expect it to be.

Want to see this? Google up house prices in any village in the Peak. I did a couple of years ago when I moved house. Price I paid for a 3 bed semi wouldn't get me anything in Hathersage....wouldn't come half way to the cheapest property....

 

[aricooperdavis]

The point is we pay to use the roads, so we shouldn't be expected to pay again for what we've already paid for.

I don't want to pay more for my VED for traffic control measures in the peak district, surely it should be the people causing the problem that pay, and surely that money should go to the region to sort out its traffic issues not to the national government?

 

[SamT]

^^ This.

I'm never convinced money is the answer. 

They'll introduce a charge.  People will still pay and come.  Traffic/congestion etc will still be a problem and someone somewhere central government will end up with a pot of money  to piss up the wall. 

 

[droid]

Beat me to it Sam 

 

[Flotsam]

The fresh air is an' extra tenner per person

 

[RobinGriffiths]

Won't be long before you get a birth tax.

 

[Fulk]

Won't be long before you get a birth tax.

Well, Mrs Thatcher introduced just such a tax (the poll tax), which lives on as the council tax.

 

[ChrisJC]

Won't be long before you get a birth tax.

Well, Mrs Thatcher introduced just such a tax (the poll tax), which lives on as the council tax.

As I recall, we had Council Tax before, then Mrs. Thatcher tried to change it to the Poll Tax, failed, and it reverted back to Council Tax.

Pity really, as Council Tax is shockingly bad value for me.

Chris.

 

[Rob]

Isn't the elephant in the room actually that there is very little 'congestion' in the Peak District??? Or am i missing something?

 

[Fulk]

Pity really, as Council Tax is shockingly bad value for me.

I think that council tax (CT) is bad value for a lot of people. In theory, it sounds reasonable that those with the highest incomes will live in higher-value houses, so it?s fair enough that they should pay more CT; in practice, I think that there are quite a lot of people for whom this principle simply doesn?t apply ? just because you live in a similar-sized and specified property as your neighbour(s), there?s no reason to suppose that you?ll be earning the same as them.
In my opinion CT would be far better charged on ?ability to pay? ? i.e. on income. The ?machinery? for collecting tax is already in place, so I suggest that a penny or two (or whatever it takes) be added to the basic rate of income tax, CT abolished, and the extra income tax distributed to local councils in lieu of the CT.

 

[pwhole]

Isn't the elephant in the room actually that there is very little 'congestion' in the Peak District??? Or am i missing something?

I think if the public transport services were demonstrably improved across the board, and not just for Castleton and Bakewell but the smaller towns in the centre too, then a 'car charge' for visitors after that might become more acceptable, as clearly alternatives were now easily available. After all, new bus routes need to be offering services to locals to move easily between Peak District communities, as well as encouraging folks from Sheffield and Manchester and other big towns to use the bus and train instead - and for them to hopefully venture further into the interior, and know that they can definitely get home again. Getting stranded out there is always one reason why folks don't do it - it's happened to me. I would hope that locals (and regular visitors like us, haha!) would be able to apply for exemptions.

Obviously topography and cost mean train services can only improve on current lines, but the frequency on the Hope Valley Line is probably already adequate (every hour), given fast trains run in-between them. Of course if they hadn't closed Woodhead Tunnel, a huge amount of more northern areas could be covered for tourism. One hilarious and expensive option would be to reopen the Buxton to Derby line, calling at Monsal Dale, Millers Dale, etc. But given the trackbed is the only path most visitors would choose to walk, all other options involving slopes, and given it's also a popular cycling and disabled route, good luck with that.

The only real 'congestion', in the normal sense, is Castleton, and it's almost entirely due to Winnats Pass, as it's demonstrably a 'driver attraction', even though at least half of the users shouldn't be allowed anywhere near it, up or down. The S-bend around the Chapel and school doesn't help either, and two years ago we had a very large topstone smashed off our garden wall in front of our eyes by a large camper-van that refused to stop afterwards. Though the side of their van must have looked wonderful, and I hope it cost a packet to repair. It was so large we had to winch it back on up a ramp.

So driving wardens stationed in Castleton, armed with large metal sticks and powerful lasers, I would definitely support