Clay pipe dating

P

Peter Burgess

New member
I'm not really sure which section this should be in.

This is an attempt to get a better idea of dating for a claypipe. The problem is that I and others have a reasonable idea what we would like the age of this object to be, so by checking various claypipe typology charts it is very easy to find a data that 'fits' our expectations. Such an approach is not as scientific as it could be, so that's why I am asking here, to find someone without a preconceived idea of its age.

If anyone reading this thinks they are good at this sort of thing, please let me know what you think, and your reasons for your date, and a good reason why I should believe you.

http://www.wcms.org.uk/images/fareast_pb566_claypipe_scale.jpg

It more or less goes without saying that this is from an old mine. With the impressive range of experts on this forum of all kinds, I feel confident someone can help.
 
I have an in depth book on the Study of makers and thier marks - Bristol Clay Pipes. Quoted in this book is -

"It is known that the forms of pipes tended to follow local fashion; ...."

Also the following quotation and reference may be of some help - "Oswald has eveolved a system of dating pipes by their form and the reader should consult this"

Oswald, A. 1960 "The Archaeological and Economic History of English Clay Tobacco Pipes", F. Brit. Archaeol. Ass. XXIV (1960). 1 - 68.
 
Took print out of photo round to well known Peak mine historian to night - he said "how old would you like it to be!"
I can see his point, I recall smoking similar things my self in the mid 70's. Perhaps they need to be dated in context in which they were found, in the final analyses?
 
Context: Pipe is from old quarry workings, graffiti on walls and roof from early 18th century to about 1760. Graffiti largely the work of casual visitors we think. No evidence of 'modern' visitors until 1970s. Quarry is part of a large complex dating back probably to 14th century, maybe earlier. Some suggestions it might be early Norman.
 
*Puts pompous hat on*

'cos smartass or not, it makes a significant point about the need to take care with archaeological evidence and not to read too much into it.

*takes hat off
 
OK Graham, I wasn't having a go at you, just the over-zealous actions in recent days. (IMHO).

Please - back to topic.

The pipe, by the way, is still in the place it was found, in accordance with NAMHO guidance on removal of artefacts etc etc
 
Didn't think you were having a go at me. However, any interpretation of that object would need to demonstrate that my interpretation was wrong.  8)
 
As you must surely appreciate, Graham, items left lying about in an old mine. not buried in a stratigraphic context, cannot be shown to have been left there undisturbed, or placed there by idiots intent on deception. Unless it is a forgery, it will still have an associated date, whether it was photographed in a mine, a museum, or in the street outside my house.
 
Seems you're stuck with interpreting books on subject . Unless you can con someone into doing a freebie carbon dating (assuming there's still smoking residuue in the bowl.
Perhaps not as daft as it sounds - not the same technique I know but we've managed to get analysis done on 2 different Electron Microscopes up here, by shear cheek!
You never know 'til you ask.
 
Actually, getting a freebie carbon date would be very useful for a few of the really ancient pit props in the supposedly early medieval areas. Depends how big a sample is required these days. And, no Graham, nobody has lugged a 600-year old bit of rotten wood into the mine to fool us.
 
We found a well decorated pipe at Stock's House Shaft, and got a fair bit of info from the clay pipe society. Although I see no really clear markings on the bowl there may be a maker's stamp not shown in the picture. the shape and style of the bowl is often a good indicator as well. We made contact with the clay pipe society through the clay pipe maker at Amberly chalk pits museum in West Sussex. hope this is some help
 
Yes. The Amberley museum is reasonably local. Thanks. Might be worth establishing a contact, as we find pipes occasionally, in their original context Graham.
 
Peter Burgess said:
Actually, getting a freebie carbon date would be very useful for a few of the really ancient pit props in the supposedly early medieval areas. Depends how big a sample is required these days. And, no Graham, nobody has lugged a 600-year old bit of rotten wood into the mine to fool us.
Click to expand...

Very small with AMS ~ 1mg is quoted though even that's a bit generous.
 
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