Climbing harness for caving

[huwg]

Is there any reason not to use something like a DMM centre harness for going caving with groups?

I think they stand a higher risk of getting trashed underground, but assuming they would be used in fairly forgiving caves for laddering and simple downclimbs and for relatively infrequent use (maybe 10 trips a year max?) I don't think this will be a major issue. Examples of use would be:

- Laddering down Robinsons Pot Entrance
- The downclimbs in kirk gill pot
- Climbing up into gloop-de-loop in dow

Does anyone have any experience of using them for this kind of thing? I've used a previous form of them a few years ago as a climbing instructor where they were relatively straight forward and quick to get on/off.

Link below:

Centre Threadback

Harness your potential. A robust centre harness with a horizontal tie, increased durability, large size tolerance for the smaller user, safety point colour coding and threadback stainless buckles.

dmmwales.com

Thanks!

 

[Brains]

I believe the common arguments against using a climbing harness for caving include the higher attachment point, gear loops snagging and padding collecting water mud and grit. For simple protection on climbs and ladders the higher attachment could be a bonus. AFAIK group harnesses are gear loop free and lacking in padding. Given that, why not? The climbers that have them issued after might moan about them being damp, dusty or muddy. Longevity should be well within the normal age replacement cycle, and wear will be an ongoing inspection regime

 

[topcat]

Perfect for laddering: better than caving harnesses.

 

[Pete K]

Is there any reason not to use something like a DMM centre harness for going caving with groups?
.........
Link below:

Centre Threadback

Harness your potential. A robust centre harness with a horizontal tie, increased durability, large size tolerance for the smaller user, safety point colour coding and threadback stainless buckles.

dmmwales.com

Thanks!

They are the most common harness for instructed group vertical caving work (and climbing etc...) in the UK outdoor industry. They last as well as anything else if washed regularly.

 

[cap n chris]

A generic climbing harness with no frills is about a tenner cheaper than a caving belt; frankly I'm amazed people wear belts anymore as they no longer serve their original purposes. A caving harness isn't designed for laddering and although it can be used for the latter it's a very expensive way of doing so and it requires a combination of items to create the ensemble: harness, chest strap, central connector, safety connector (aka carabiner), and the centre of gravity attachment point is very low.

Nopad harness

Universal rope park harness for group use

rope-master.com

Warmbac Square Buckle - Starless River

A very solid buckle to close a very solid belt, made in broad nylon tape webbing. It comes in two sizes. Please specify which you require, size Regular (up to about 40 inch waist with clothes) or size Long (up to about 52 inch waist with clothes) It bears repetition "there is no such thing as a...

starlessriver.com

 

[phizz4]

We use DMM thread back harnesses with our scout caving groups. I endorse Pete’s views. It is daft that ‘caving belts’ cost more than some harnesses but they do have their applications and for most of the time they are useful for holding up oversize suits and helping in spotting situations with young people.

 

[MarkJ]

A generic climbing harness with no frills is about a tenner cheaper than a caving belt

My mind is blown!

That said, most the time the belt is for its intended purpose (holding a bag and as a fashion accessory!) and only occasionally as a lifeline on a ladder.

A cheap harness could do both of those things and maybe better, but would the leg straps get uncomfortable with a lot of crawling?

 

[huwg]

Thanks for the input. Those beal harnesses look similar to the DMM ones I'm familiar with, and cheaper.

We have full SRT harnesses we could use, but the time taken to kit up a group is much longer than a simple climbing harnesses which they are more familiar, plus all the benefits described above.

As an aside I find belts are useful with groups to stop waterproof coats riding up and giving something to grab on if assistance is required, but they aren't necessary for my use cases really. I use mine for clipping bags to, and have used for unplanned abs and life lining but just for personal caving rather than with groups. I could permanently wear a harness underground but more stuff to get caught would get annoying. Might be cheaper to buy the harness and cut off the leg loops though!

I see belts as another tool which has little penalty for carrying underground (aside from cost) but can be useful aside from it's main bag dragging purpose.