Club members smoking drugs on trips out

[Scousecraigy]

Hi. What are peoples opinions on members of groups smoking drugs on official trips out? I went on a couple of events with [Mod comment: removed] couple months ago and they were allowing members to smoke weed whilst in caves and mines. Kind of put me off attending further events with them. Especially when you are in an enclosed space and a couple of selfish members are stinking the place out with weed. I would have thought that organised cave and mine groups would have an official policy of no drugs when on trips as a matter of courtesy to other members on the trip who dont smoke. Especially for members who are subjected to regular drug testing. Just interested to hear of the opinions from other members of this site as to whether you have come across organised groups with open policies for members to smoke drugs on caving and mining trips? Cheers all.

 

[spelfish]

I'm slightly curious why you felt the need to identify the club... It makes what would have been a perfectly reasonable question sound rather personal - even vindictive.

 

[Scousecraigy]

I'm slightly curious why you felt the need to identify the club... It makes what would have been a perfectly reasonable question sound rather personal - even vindictive.

Why not identify the club? As the post is directed about them allowing members to smoke weed on organised trips out?

 

[Scousecraigy]

I'm slightly curious why you felt the need to identify the club... It makes what would have been a perfectly reasonable question sound rather personal - even vindictive.

Also interested to understand whether smoking drugs whilst underground would invalidate their BCA insurance for members. I might have to put a call into BCA and obtain some advice on that.

 

[dougle89]

Personally don’t care what people do on their own time, but in a cave or mine with a group isn’t the place for it, have been in caves and a mine where someone was doing it at the entrance and that was bad enough, it’s unpleasant to smell in an open space never mind an enclosed one

 

[Scousecraigy]

Personally don’t care what people do on their own time, but in a cave or mine with a group isn’t the place for it, have been in caves and a mine where someone was doing it at the entrance and that was bad enough, it’s unpleasant to smell in an open space never mind an enclosed one

Agreed mate. I will put a call into BCA and make them aware that [Mod comment: removed] members are allowed to smoke drugs whilst underground. Then leave them to deal with whether or not it invalidates their insurance.

 

[rm128]

Nevermind drug testing. I think what we need here is a Turing test

 

[aricooperdavis]

Mod comment: this forum isn't the place for publicly accusing named individuals or groups of criminal activity. We're trying to create a positive and open forum for discussion, and posts like this inevitably deteriorate into a slanging match. I've removed names so that you can carry on discussing what is and isn't acceptable behaviour underground if you wish, but don't let it get personal please or the thread will be locked.

 

[dougle89]

Agreed mate. I will put a call into BCA and make them aware that [Mod comment: removed] members are allowed to smoke drugs whilst underground. Then leave them to deal with whether or not it invalidates their insurance.

You aren’t covered if you’re under the influence of drugs not prescribed by a medical professional. Just as you aren’t covered for caving whilst drunk. It’s listed in the exclusions section of the insurance policy

 

[andrewmcleod]

I don't have that many caving companions who are also smokers, but generally I have not (in memory) experienced cavers smoking underground at all, which I think is reasonable both for conservation reasons and politeness for other cavers.
Those smokers I do know wait until after they are out of the cave before lighting up.

I would be quite shocked if I went on an organized club caving trip and someone lit a cigarette underground or drank alcohol underground while caving (a small amount while cave camping is not unusual), let alone something more significant.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Like any group of people, some will and some won't... <insert whatever activity here>

Find people you get along with. That applies to caving clubs diving clubs and even just the people you hang about with.

Their smoking underground wouldn't bother me at all - obviously we're talking a crafty smoke not some massive stoner session. Same logic as having a beer versus getting drunk. But it would bother others. Live and let live, find the right crowd for you

 

[cap n chris]

Smoking is a recognised irritant for bats so that could easily render liability for prosecution for disturbance to bats. Unlimited fine plus jail time. So that's probably a good resson, among others, to refrain.

 

[Scousecraigy]

The reason I am highlighting this is because the groups main SRT guy who rigs up all the ropes and stuff is one of the members who smokes weed underground. It annoys me because this group who I am not allowed to mention are very critical of others and will quite happily sit there calling out people whilst quietly turning a blind eye to their own responsibilities and standards.

 

[mikem]

Unfortunately what scousecraigy describes in last post is human nature. BCA aren't the insurer, so impossible to say what situation would be until it happens - they can't do anything except refuse to accept their membership money next year. The insurance covers damage to others, not those responsible.

 

[Brains]

As an ex smoker, I have occasionally smoked underground in the previous millennium. I would not wish to have to deal with an intoxicated person but you do what you must. I wouldn't like to be in a cloud of smoke either. Times change as do opinions. In 2026 I would vote against this behaviour

 

[mikem]

Last century many people smoked underground, as they didn't have decent thermals

 

[BCA Treasurer]

You aren’t covered if you’re under the influence of drugs not prescribed by a medical professional. Just as you aren’t covered for caving whilst drunk. It’s listed in the exclusions section of the insurance policy

You're absolutely right that it's an exclusion in most policies but I have not found anywhere in the BCA insurance policy that lists it as an exclusion.

There's a general duty under any insurance to minimise risk, and I'd expect that caving under the influence would fall foul of that even if not specifically listed.

 

[cavemanmike]

Our club has a drugs and alcohol policy and i think most do. I came across a group of people smoking weed whilst going over crib goch recently. It’s a social problem nowadays

 

[cap n chris]

Perhaps it's a performance enhancer for people who are totally incompetent in the normal course of events. Being stoned at least slows them down, thus making them less likely to unplanned impacts.

 

[Brains]

I recall nearly everyone used carbide lamps. Lots of smoke and pollution from those. Black snot was a sign of a good trip. The warmth of a warm generator tucked into an oversuit was a joy. Even then there was pushback against them for the negative aspects. Nowadays a carbide, candle or oil lamp trip is seen as a rare taste (literally!) of the past