CSCC Padlocks sites: new keys required from 12th July 2006

[cap n chris]

Dear CSCC Representative,

For a combination of reasons, but including conservation, stewardship and
economics, the CSCC has decided that it will CHANGE all
the padlocks on CSCC-controlled caves/mines. NEW KEYS will then be
required to gain entry to these sites.

All CSCC Member Clubs are therefore now invited to apply for a new CSCC
key. Please provide the CSCC C&A Officer with the name, address AND
TELEPHONE NUMBER of your Club Keyholder (email:
canda@cscc.org.uk; address: Mr C Binding, CSCC C&A Officer, Ty Bach,
Cheddar, Somerset, BS27 3BN).

The changeover of padlocks will take place on one day, yet to be decided*,
chosen so as to minimise disruption to trips.
Our current thought is for it to take place in July/August
when most people, and Clubs, are on their holidays.

The CSCC would also like to take this opportunity to discourage the use of
aerosol-type lubricants (like WD40) on its locks. The lubrication offered by
these products is very short-lived. A light machine oil (such as 3-in-1
penetrating oil) is much better. Difficult-to-open, seized, damaged, missing or faulty locks
can always be reported to the CSCC C&A Officer. In most instances they
can be changed in 48 hours.

* KEY CHANGEOVER WILL BEGIN TOMORROW, 12th July 2006 and should be completed by Thursday 13th July 2006. It is sincerely hoped that any disruption to planned visits to caves will be minimal but apologies are offered to anybody who is inconvenienced. New keys are being posted to all CSCC member clubs/organisations; if your club/organisation does not receive a key (perhaps due to the address being incorrect or out of date) please contact the details/address above. New padlocks will have details attached to them informing of the changeover and contact details. Please leave the labels in situ so that as many people as possible have an opportunity to read them.

For further details email canda@cscc.org.uk

Council of Southern Caving Clubs

 

[farmergiles]

Can we use graphite powder? Its says its for locks on the pack but doesn't mention anything about caving locks.

 

[nickwilliams]

Can we graphite powder? Its says its for locks on the pack but doesn't mention anything about caving locks.

We have a few locks on things in Derbyshire (e.g. Titan) which have given some trouble. We have taken to cleaning them in an ultrasonic bath - these seem to be becoming reasonably widely available as a cheap domestic appliance rather than an expensive piece of lab equipment these days.

I always try to pack locks used for this application with silicone grease, but I don't know of any objective evidence that this actually prolongs the life of the lock. It would be a good idea if CSCC could try treating some of their locks with different lubricants and monitor which ones seem to last longer (although you'd have to allow for the usage rate as well, I guess).

One thing I am sure of is that the majority of the damage is done by dirt brought into the lock on the key. If users could be persuaded to wipe the key clean (or rinse it in a puddle and then wipe it dry) before inserting it in the lock, I am sure it would help.

Nick.

 

[graham]

One thing I am sure of is that the majority of the damage is done by dirt brought into the lock on the key. If users could be persuaded to wipe the key clean (or rinse it in a puddle and then wipe it dry) before inserting it in the lock, I am sure it would help.

Nick.

Correct. The GB lock that we thought that someone had broken a key or something else off inside was simply packed with muck.

Personally, I am not convinced that packing a lock with grease does anything other than provide a medium to hold the dirt.

 

[cap n chris]

I agree. Best to keep the lock clear of pretty much everything. Use WD40 to open a dormant lock, allow it to dry and then lubricate it with 3-in-1 before leaving it dormant again.

 

[Les W]

The best solution for cave locks is to keep them clean. It was for this reason that the GB lock was moved to the outside of the door, so that it didn't need to be handled on the way out with muddy hands. However the lock mechanism is awaiting repair so the lock currently does need to be handled on the way out! This may have contributed to its recent failure/jamming.

The best thing to use for a lubricant is an occasional application of a small ammount of light machine oil such as 3 in 1. This should only be applied if the mechanism is getting stiff. WD40 or other penetrating type oils are DEGREASING agents and whilst in the short term they will release a seized or jammed mechanism, in the long term they actually make the problem worse by removing ALL the lubricants within the mechanism so that it actually seizes sooner and worse than you would expect. 

If you must use WD40 to free a lock then it should be lubricated after with 3 in 1!

 

[Peter Burgess]

Isn't the best policy to leave all lock lubrication and maintenance to the group who has the responsibility to look after them? Isn't it better to say with regard to the CSCC locks :

"Please do not attempt to lubricate the locks with anything. Report all problems opening them to CSCC who will deal with the problem".

Better than saying :

"The CSCC would also like to take this opportunity to discourage the use of aerosol-type lubricants (like WD40) on its locks. The lubrication offered by these products is very short-lived. A light machine oil (such as 3-in-1 penetrating oil) is much better."

This may be helpful information, but if we leave the responsibility to CSCC officers,

a) The rule is easy to remember - leave it alone.

b) CSCC will have a much better idea of the history of maintenance.

Likewise for CCC keys.

This way it becomes an "SEP".

 

[Cookie]

This way it becomes an "SEP".

Would need to paint them pink as well, just to make sure. 

 

[Dep]

I think Peter's idea has some merit - a simple system indeed.

On a more general note: what about motorcycle chain lube? This is a heavy grease within a volatile solvent in an aerosol with a thin tube for accurate squirting (it's expensive and has an interesting effect on tyres!!), goes on easily and soaks into tiny gaps (O-ring chains!) then evaporates to leave the grease.
The working environment of a motorbike chain is many times harsher than a cave-padlock. Water+dirt, plus constant flexure.

Les W: The best solution for cave locks is to keep them clean

...is of course best of all...

I'm mindful of all this as tomorrow evening I will have to open a right bastard of a lid (two-locks) which hasn't been opened for a few months and was a right sod then, I will be taking WD40 and temporary spare locks as I think they will need taking home for servicing.

Is it just me or do others notice their cursor flickering, jumping and lagging behind when typing a post?
I'm fairly sure it's because of the animated smilies immediately above the form field, my browser and old slow PC is struggling to render it all.

 

[Roger W]

Are you still using a 486?
Have you considered upgrading to Pentium?

Seriously, now you mention it I can see what you mean.  The cursor bar definitely does flicker, but not all the time...

:-\

It's probably Bubba's secret surveillance system...  :doubt:

I'll try some bike chain lube and see if that fixes it.

 

[Roger W]

Back on the subject of padlock lubrication -

I suspect a lot depends on the nature of the padlock.

If it is an 1876-vintage blacksmith-crafted item, large in dimensions and simple in mechanism, a good thick oil that will coat the innards and prevent corrosion might be a good thing.  But if it is a "precision instrument" (to quote Master Padlocks at
http://www.masterlock.com/general/faqs_careandservice.shtml then heavy lubricants seem not to be recommended.

http://experts.about.com/q/Locksmithing-3110/Lock-lubrication.htm?zIr=5#r has some useful info.

Bike chains do suffer from a pretty harsh environment, but I'm not sure that the situation is quite the same.  Bike chains are basically simple mechanisms operating under high load conditions.  Judging by the muck I've washed out of chains in the past (Triumph Thunderbird pre-unit, Yamaha 125 twin, Mercian pedalpower...) they can continue to operate with a lot of grit in the mechanism.

Hi-tech padlocks, however, work under relatively light load conditions (hopefully!) but with close tolerances and little room for bits of grit between the moving parts.  Bike chain lube might be too heavy for such an application...

But I ain't sure.

 

[cap n chris]

LOCK CHANGEOVER WILL BE COMPLETED TODAY. Keys have been posted to member clubs/organisations of CSCC today, first class.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Well, you chose a beautiful couple of days to drive round the Somerset countryside.  8)

 

[cap n chris]

Yes, Peter. I've got a nice collection of photos of gated cave entrances as a result.

Wow, my photo album is pretty sad, come to think of it!....  :doubt:

 

[cap n chris]

All done. 

 

[whitelackington]

Did U get a suntan Captain Chris 8) :icon_321:

 

[cap n chris]

Yehs, sir, massa; yehs, sir, boss. Me am Cunta'n'Kinta.

 

[Roger W]

 

[cap n chris]

Good cartoon Roger, but what's the magical universal "stop children from falling to their death in deep holes which are no longer secure" solution?

I mean, it's hardly as if getting a CSCC key is difficult?

And there aren't any stuck CSCC padlocks at the moment `cos they're all brand new and oiled nicely!

My 2 p

 

[Roger W]

Don't take me wrong, Cap'n!

I wasn't really meaning to suggest somebody should really go and dynamite all your nice shiny padlocks off... :-[

I'm all in favour of something to keep sheep / small children / boy scouts / etc. from falling down open shafts and decomposing at the bottom, thus causing great unhappiness to the cavers who have to squeeze past their mouldering remains on the way into the cave...

I guess I'm also in favour of doing whatever can be done to protect caves from the activities of vandals, irresponsible idiots and folk who want to get some stalactites to sell on e-Bay... 

So have a laugh, don't take it seriously, and keep up the good work with the oil can! :bow:

By the way, what did you use to oil the locks with?