Darkplaces Big bash Aug 2007 - Trip report

[jasonbirder]

Great trip report and sounds like you all had a good week 

Good to see you complete the Croesor to Rhosydd through Trip Root...I knew you could do it and a big thumbs up to you! 

Root I sometimes think you're shooting c**tplaces in the foot a little with this "Darkplaces ain't a club" we're all anarchists its us against the world everyone else s*d off attitude.

I agree Darkplaces isn't a club..its an internet forum, no more than UKcaving.com is UKCaving.com a club...
But as far as I can see its membership is no different than the membership here...most are insured, experienced responsible cavers (just like here) who would not think of trespassing or forcing entry, some people will probably go where they aren't supposed to if it involves no more than visiting the allotment out of season or poking in a slate mine in the middle of a wild moor when no-ones looking even though there isn't supposed to be any access...and a tiny few will go where they want and s*d everyone else...A spread of behaviour and opinion that is exactly mirrored in the debates we have on this forum too.

Darkplaces should let things like your excellent report of the trip in Wales and the recent article in Descent show that its just a good natured collection of posters with attitudes that mirror those of the underground community as a hole without getting into any ya! boo! sucks! arguments that reflect poorly on both sides.

 

[Les W]

Root I sometimes think you're shooting c**tplaces in the foot a little with this "Darkplaces ain't a club" we're all anarchists its us against the world everyone else s*d off attitude.

I agree Darkplaces isn't a club..its an internet forum, no more than UKcaving.com is UKCaving.com a club...
But as far as I can see its membership is no different than the membership here...most are insured, experienced responsible cavers (just like here) who would not think of trespassing or forcing entry, some people will probably go where they aren't supposed to if it involves no more than visiting the allotment out of season or poking in a slate mine in the middle of a wild moor when no-ones looking even though there isn't supposed to be any access...and a tiny few will go where they want and s*d everyone else...A spread of behaviour and opinion that is exactly mirrored in the debates we have on this forum too.

Darkplaces should let things like your excellent report of the trip in Wales and the recent article in Descent show that its just a good natured collection of posters with attitudes that mirror those of the underground community as a hole without getting into any ya! boo! sucks! arguments that reflect poorly on both sides.

Most clubs have a very similar cross section of membership types as well. Darkplaces seems to function pretty similarly to most clubs I know. 

The debate about wether you are a club or not is pretty much pointless, people will continue to think what they do. Just get on with the good stuff, stamp on the bad stuff and keep up the good work.

Nice trip report, wish I could have been there, I could have taken you to a few of the local caves as well

 

[darkplaces]

its all Grahams fault.

were not a caving club that's for sure.

 

[cap n chris]

its all Grahams fault

Is this a technical caving term?

Glad that's sorted.

Good trip report, BTW.  8)

 

[kay]

there are lots of silly laws:

If someone knocks on your door and requires the use of your commode, you must let them enter.

That's a very useful law, given the decline in the number of public toilets. Well, potentially useful. Needs to be publicised and upheld before it becomes properly useful.

 

[darkplaces]

Further trip reports of the same week, some slightly differant with different photos, trips etc.
http://www.c**tplaces.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6557

Planning for DP Big Bash 2008 has already begun. Be warned, Gas Axing in your area!

Rats Arse

 

[Peter Burgess]

Actually, feelings of guilt, there's a negaotiation I've been forgetting to complete for a little while now ...

Must get onto it.  :-[

That would be most welcome. Thanks!

 

[wormster]

Hokay:

Saturday,
the long drive up but with a little chart and compass work we arrive at or first port of call on the coast, I dropped off my passenger and headed for the BigBash. After an hour or so's driving I arrived at the camp D*******r and I duly set to and soon the bedoin tent was ready to welcome all ofendis. Food and beer followed by bed.

Sunday,
Cwm Orthin day, I'd not been her before, but had read, seen and heard so much about this mine that I was really wanting to do this one. We all set off from the carpark and mad our sweaty way up to lake level, where we break and kit up for the day. Once inside the addit D*******r and S**********L rig our first drop of the day and we're off, down slides, drops and climbs. There was even some mild peril when a rope got abraded and had to be sorted out, with the V******d rock removal method, (infact this was repeated at another point) a long but action packed trip, followed by food in the kebab shop then back to camp for fireside tails.

Monday,
Shh we're off for glod, I thought I'd phoned my passenger and left instructions on where to meet, but apparently not, my apologies for the delay sir. I was a funbuser for the day so that was novel initself. We arrived at an undisclosed destination and in small groups made our way to the portal, Once inside we magically became Mine explores and not folk who were going for a walk. A little wait at the bottom of the ladder and then it was my turn to come up, carefully I made my way down the addit and began waiting for the rig to be done, whilst we were waiting we kitted up for srt and had a wander round. T** M****s turned up at one point, but had to go and find a side passage to chill out before returning to the surface to attempt to kill a miegrane. Meanwhile down in the 'ole it was taking a VERY long time to get folk up the ladder, W*****s had a look and decided it wasn't for him, more folk went up and I was getting cold so W*****s and I headed for the surface. We met T** M***s back at the funbus and had lunch, then we waited for everybody else to appear before packing up and returning to camp for food and fireside antics.

Tuesday,
The Assault on Drys Y Coed, S******L, D******r and I st off on an srt mission, to plumb depths that had not been looked at yet. We found the first one and after constructing a bomb proof anchor S******L popped down only to be confronted with a a Darwinian sheep. After some sodding about the second mission of the day was discovered and I got to see for the first time how the locals set their bolts up, spot on the the phrase that comes to mind. After some swift drill and rigging action D*******r was off on her way down whilst S******L explored the upper portion of the stope, making some bizzare discoveries. Once D*******r reappeared and S*****L was out from his exploration I was soon clipping in and getting ready to drop into the void, after descending some distance I could see that this level was going nowhere and changed over and hauled my self out, then set about deconstructing our rigging. Having packed up "The Care In The Community Rucksack" we rejoined the rest of the funbus crew and headed back to camp for another evening's entertainment.

Wednesday,
Went shopping with L*l B*o and then settled in for party evening, The less said the better.

Thursday,
Bugger left me wallet behind, got on the wrong road and missed the trip underground, bummer.
Did have a good surface trip and then a pleasant afternoons work painting a tardis shed on Anglesa, followed by Chinese eats in Deganway. Late back to camp but more entertainment was had by all.

Friday,
Oo Err the legendary CRTT my second and R****s first. We slogged our way up to the addit and kitted up before disappearing for the day. Gladly I didn't have to play sweep (thanks B*****y) It was fun getting over the obstacle course, R**t fed a carabina to the mine monster on one bit, S*****L getting away with "Does My boat look big in this?" Me rigging the BoD and getting R**t over it. Skimming across the lake with a punctured Rachael. WHOO HOO we made it through, R**t even finding a surprise for him on the way out and the less said about V*****d's choice of metalwork the better. We were thinking about getting take out food but a call from camp told us that a "badger" was on the fire cooking. Very tasty it was too.

Saturday,
A nameless slate mine today, we 4x4'd out to a point where we could see the target and then set off to explore the surface area, we eventually congregated then made our way underground. When the groups found each other we did a head count only to realise that W*****s had been left behind. Some members of the party returned to surface to find out where we'd lost him and the rest of us trogged round to have a look at what was to see (this was a second visit for me we came and went by a completely different route, parts of which I knew already). Back to a depleted campsite and take out food.

Sunday,
Pack up and s'off, what more can I say.

(only the names have been changed to protect the innocent)

 

[graham]

God forbid the moderators actually do anything about this screwed topic because Graham has a fit that someone went and had fun without permits, insurance or a letter of approval from a caving club.

Not that I wish to delve into your private life in the least, DP, but I think that you will find that I made no mention of permits, insurance or anything from any caving club apart from your own (whatever you may call it). I simply pointed out that in the UK landowners have the perfect right to exclude you from their land for whatever reasons they choose and whether you feel that those reasons are sensible or spurious has no bearing on the matter.

Except in that experience has shown down the years that when groups of selfish little little twerps act in such a high-handed way it actually does set back for many years the successful negotiation of access for all other cavers. There are numerous case-histories that could be mentioned here, but doubtless you would not read them anyway, as you clearly don't give a shit for the concerns of others.

 

[Peter Burgess]

As you asked, and for no other reason, it was a couple of very nice cheese sandwiches courtesy of BA, high over the Czech Republic. I followed this with a 'Breakaway' biscuit, washed down with a refreshing cup of tea, in an unfortunately rather small paper cup. But it was free. Thanks for asking. And, yes, I did enjoy my time away, much as you seem to have done. I wish to emphasise that I have only written this reply at your invitation, since you clearly do not like anyone to freely express themselves in your topics. Perhaps you should include a standard introduction in each of your topics - you could perhaps list the names of those whose replies you are happy to receive, and those who are 'banned' from posting on your topics. Or how about running your own forum where you can set your own rules and tell people how to behave. Oh, sorry, you already have.

 

[wormster]

Oh FFS,

You whingers really get on my t**s,

we went and had a good time,

nothing was damaged,

nobody got seriously broken,

just like any other club event.

Why don't you lot stop carping on about what we did and read with interest about our forays into places that WUSSY CAVERS dare not to tread, but 'ARDCORE MINE EXPLORERS DO.

 

[Elaine]

That was a very entertaining trip report - especially the C-R through trip bit. I had never heard of that until it came up as a forum thread recently. Sounds like it is definitely one to go on the list of wants.

 

[paul]

Great trip report and sounds like you all had a good week 

Good to see you complete the Croesor to Rhosydd through Trip Root...I knew you could do it and a big thumbs up to you! 

Root I sometimes think you're shooting c**tplaces in the foot a little with this "Darkplaces ain't a club" we're all anarchists its us against the world everyone else s*d off attitude.

I agree Darkplaces isn't a club..its an internet forum, no more than UKcaving.com is UKCaving.com a club...
But as far as I can see its membership is no different than the membership here...most are insured, experienced responsible cavers (just like here) who would not think of trespassing or forcing entry, some people will probably go where they aren't supposed to if it involves no more than visiting the allotment out of season or poking in a slate mine in the middle of a wild moor when no-ones looking even though there isn't supposed to be any access...and a tiny few will go where they want and s*d everyone else...A spread of behaviour and opinion that is exactly mirrored in the debates we have on this forum too.

Darkplaces should let things like your excellent report of the trip in Wales and the recent article in Descent show that its just a good natured collection of posters with attitudes that mirror those of the underground community as a hole without getting into any ya! boo! sucks! arguments that reflect poorly on both sides.

Well said. Now you'l be banned from the Darkplaces Forum!

I agree Darkplaces isn't a club..its an internet forum, no more than UKcaving.com is UKCaving.com a club...

To my mind Darkplaces is a group of individuals with a common interest who communicate via a Forum to chat , swap ideas and arrange trips underground.

Many small caving clubs with no hut or other private meeting place are a group of individuals with a common interest who communicate face to face to chat , swap ideas and arrange trips underground

 

[Walrus]

To my mind Darkplaces is a group of individuals with a common interest who communicate via a Forum to chat , swap ideas and arrange trips underground.

Many small caving clubs with no hut or other private meeting place are a group of individuals with a common interest who communicate face to face to chat , swap ideas and arrange trips underground

There. See the difference? 

 

[Peter Burgess]

I have taken a good look at this thread, especially the first few posts. This is how I see it:

Darkplaces posted a good write-up of a week's exploring in Wales with his friends. In that write up he used the words 'The second underground trip of the day is secret', as he doesn't want us to know where it was for whatever reason, probably quite innocent. We also have the phrase 'A mine of Gold we snuck into'. We don't have a reason for why the group 'snuck into' the mine. Some might assume it was because this was describing the civil offence of trespass, but this is only an assumption.

Graham reads this write up and merely comments along the lines that it seems like a description of the activities of a club by any other name.

Cap'n Chris then guesses that the mention of secrecy might be connected with ignoring access arrangements, but this is only a guess.

So far, everything is on topic in that replies refer to either the post in general terms, or to specifics within it.

Darkplaces in replying to Cap'n Chris then makes the first comment on Access Conditions (other that the Cap'ns guess). Not Graham. Not me. Darkplaces does not confirm or deny the truth of Cap'n Chris's guess.

RobinGriffiths makes a very much on topic and helpful contribution.

Graham (reply 6 if you are still with me) comments on a quote from Darkplaces on his thoughts on Access Conditions.

Beyond this, analysis of what people posted is less relevant because we have now identified who started the 'off topic' argument. It was you, Darkplaces, when you wrote:

Sensible Access conditions we (I try and recommend) following. Its the pointless over restrictive ones we ignore to make the point how pointless they are.

If you don't want people to argue with your ideas about access, don't post them here. You've been a member here for long enough surely, to know that people will comment on what you type. If you didn't want a discussion on access conditions to kick off, perhaps it would have been a good idea to ignore Cap'n Chris guess, and not make your well-known attitude to access known to us again. This is a discussion forum, not just a noticeboard for members' opinions, though I suppose we can all post that sort of stuff if we don't mind others disagreeing with us.

 

[graham]

Well said Peter. 

Just one comment to add: how do these guys go underground together if they never meet face to face?

 

[wormster]

Well said Peter. 

Just one comment to add: how do these guys go underground together if they never meet face to face?

Ahh well Graham, that'd be telling wouldn't it.

IF you have signed the official secrets act and become a member of Darkplaces, we might just let you into the big secret of how we meet up.

 

[darkplaces]

The CRTT has to be respected for the hazards of very sharp slate, big drops, loose roofs, deep cold water can be done by non-mega hardcore SRT experts, I did it so its not that hard its entertaining and worth doing but the walk up is a slog. The two people (& other individuals) from http://www.aditnow.co.uk/ really have to be applauded for the time, money and effort in making the trip safer in terms of virtually bombproof anchors and rope protection from the very sharp slate.

 

[paul]

The CRTT has to be respected for the hazards of very sharp slate, big drops, loose roofs, deep cold water can be done by non-mega hardcore SRT experts, I did it so its not that hard its entertaining and worth doing but the walk up is a slog. The two people (& other individuals) from http://www.aditnow.co.uk/ really have to be applauded for the time, money and effort in making the trip safer in terms of virtually bombproof anchors and rope protection from the very sharp slate.

Yes it does look like a good trip - I have read a few others' stories about the through-trip. How long does it take and what's the return journey (from the exit back to where you started from)?

 

[darkplaces]

We took it slowly, being my 1st time and tried pulling the now sunken bridge out, looking around taking photos, large group of 8. About 6hrs. Can be done lot quicker with small group hacking though it.

Exit back to entry, hmm the CRTT backwards has a topic discussion all of its own.

1. You would need to carry boats in for the large water chamber.
2. prussic out of boat up 20ft.
3. Zip line across bridge - ok
4. Bridge of death, awkward as going to normal entry the zip line goes up to roof so you would need to pull yourself up and use installed sling to get to central support, unless you start with a very long sling, can be done. Extra slings recommended.
5. Need boat to cross chamber that did have a bridge.
6. (final) or if done in usual direction, the 1st long zip wire goes up coming from wrong direction, no rope in place other then steel zip wire you would have to pull yourself along on steel till reach the other end then people could be hauled across pull themselves across with extra rope.
7. Two big prussic's to do and crossing of the chamber of horrors.

You are of course presuming the final two bit pitches are still rigged, if someone has nicked or de-rigged them then you have no option but to back track and do the CRTT in the normal direction. Also you have a longer walk back over the top on the surface.