Darkplaces Big bash Aug 2007 - Trip report

[wormster]

Yes it does look like a good trip - I have read a few others' stories about the through-trip. How long does it take and what's the return journey (from the exit back to where you started from)?

Car to Car it takes 8/10 hours, depending on party size (no fewer than 3 & no more than eight) You've got an hour's walk up and an hour's walk back.

BTW its worth taking a map and compass with you or a GPS to plot your entry and exit points.

Distance of trip overground is less than a mile and a half, time underground 6/8 hours.

Park at Cwmorthin carpark and head up the obvious track on the LEFT HAND side of the valley past Rhosydd chapel & then up the incline at the head of Cwmorthin & onto the flats of Rhosydd, contour round to Croesor addit and in.

Hope this is helpful for you (pm me for links to competent guides)

 

[paul]

Yes it does look like a good trip - I have read a few others' stories about the through-trip. How long does it take and what's the return journey (from the exit back to where you started from)?

Car to Car it takes 8/10 hours, depending on party size (no fewer than 3 & no more than eight) You've got an hour's walk up and an hour's walk back.

BTW its worth taking a map and compass with you or a GPS to plot your entry and exit points.

Distance of trip overground is less than a mile and a half, time underground 6/8 hours.

Park at Cwmorthin carpark and head up the obvious track on the LEFT HAND side of the valley past Rhosydd chapel & then up the incline at the head of Cwmorthin & onto the flats of Rhosydd, contour round to Croesor addit and in.

Hope this is helpful for you (pm me for links to competent guides)

Thanks to you and Darkplaces, for that.

 

[jasonbirder]

Apart from the Walk in the CRTT trip should be do-able in about 3 1/2 - 4 hours unless you're doing alot of heavy photography.
Theres no real technical SRT - just a couple of straight drops, a couple of zip lines you need a pulley for (ideally a metal twin wheel one) and a couple of traverses generously protected by traverse lines. Nothing that should present any obstacles for an experience party of cavers. There is the famous chamber of horrors which involves a straight abseil down into a boat and now one piece of water that used to be crossed by a suspension bridge which you need to cross...you can use another inflatable - but to be honest if you don't mind taking your wellies off and getting wet you can wade most of the way and swim a short distance across the deepest part.
Its a fantastic trip...the only thing I would say is wear a bit more than you usually do...because its all in big draughty passage and because you're not physically exerting yourself (alot of the time you're walking in big level floored passage) you will get cold, cold, cold!
It obviously used to have a tricky reputation...but since its been re-rigged its a cakewalk as long as you're careful in the chambers with dodgy roofs. The hardest part is definately the walk in!!! 
I've got some maps if you need them Paul and can lend you my Petzl twin pulley if you need it.

 

[wormster]

Paul,

No worries on that one,

once you're under route finding isn't a problem, but  don't make the mistake that I made: ie, climbing the rubble mound after the first drop, go round to the right but veer mainly leftwards in the chamber and above all BE QUIET, this is the place where transit sized lumps regularly fall out of the roof.

The ladder bridge is gorne so you'll need to inflate your boat there then carry it through the rest of the trip.

 

[wormster]

and now one piece of water that used to be crossed by a suspension bridge which you need to cross...you can use another inflatable - but to be honest if you don't mind taking your wellies off and getting wet you can wade most of the way and swim a short distance across the deepest part.

Birdman, have you completely lost your marbles??

That water is COLD and you will get COLDER on the rest of the trip until you're either and icepole or dead.

The one thing that I've learned in that mine is NOT TO GET WET.

 

[darkplaces]

Yeah lots of hanging around means you get cold 

It does have much potential for death being your a few hours from rescue, your overdue time will be several hours and your likely to have minimized your kit because of the walk and getting wet will easily result in hypothermia. If you wear a wet suit you will just end up hot at other times. Things frequently just drop from the roof at random. A stone dropped from the roof while we were watching people cross the 1st zip line. (remember to break!)... I didn't!

 

[jasonbirder]

You'll be fine in a neo-fleece or wetsuit - wouldn't fancy it in justa  furry tho'

 

[Langthwaite Pot]

The water isn't really that cold! It makes a grand wetsuit trip. It would seem to make it significantly quicker too - we were through in 2hrs at a steady pace.

and now one piece of water that used to be crossed by a suspension bridge which you need to cross...you can use another inflatable - but to be honest if you don't mind taking your wellies off and getting wet you can wade most of the way and swim a short distance across the deepest part.

Birdman, have you completely lost your marbles??

That water is COLD and you will get COLDER on the rest of the trip until you're either and icepole or dead.

The one thing that I've learned in that mine is NOT TO GET WET.

 

[clunk]

Try trespassing on my land and you'll find out why.

I'm game. Where do you live?  :

The dog would look after you if you tried to enter there

I used to talk about my wife like that. Im divorced now. 

 

[clunk]

there are lots of silly laws:

Laws are funny things. Not only do people keep trying to break them all the time but you have to make sure they are up-to-date to keep pace with changes in society. In the UK, it’s The Law Commission’s job to search out such laws and add them to a Repeal Bill, which gets passed by Parliament every few years. But there are still loads of bizarre laws out there that have never been revoked. Here are just a few:
Blah blah blah

It is also legal to kill a welshman in hereford with a longbow.

 

[clunk]

I was on this bigbash trip, and it was truly amazing. I very nearly didnt go, and very  nearly didn't come back. On one occation, I was narrowly missed by a washing machine lump of slate, and I abbed a 90foot pitch without doing up my main mallion. (this was because I was going over someone elses kit to make sure he was rigged properly as it was his first srt pitch. I noticed 10 foot from the top and 80 foot from the bottom. I made the decition to carry on. We had an awesome trip with a group of friends. And you are all accusing c**tplaces of being a club. And I can see where this misunderstanding came from. A social gathering for a forum. Well I for one, dont see it like that. I did not go away with c**tplaces members last week, I went away with the c**tplaces family. Cause that is one thing you can be sure of with c**tplaces, everyone is nice and pleasent and decent people.
Now that the scum have got banned, anyway.

 

[cap n chris]

everyone is nice and pleasent and decent people

 

[cap n chris]

... I guess the earlier comment(s) in the report along the lines of "it was a great event, nobody got killed..." are making allusions to people very nearly, but not actually, getting killed, then? (i.e. large falling rocks and equipment irregularities, such as those you mention above, Clunk) - were there any other "near hits", making the event a tad more Scary Mary?

Not a criticism, but an observation.


My reason for asking is this: after most trips me and my caving chums apply our standard review technique which is this:

What went right?
What went wrong?
What could have been done better?

The intention is to iron out inefficiencies (delays, redundant/insufficient gear, rigging choices etc.) and improve safety and the general underground experience, learning from mistakes/oversights and fine tuning our technique. My belief is that this approach is beneficial and my guess is that many trips occur without a review taking place, where poor practice or problems are simply forgotten or ignored.

 

[Hughie]

... I guess the earlier comment(s) in the report along the lines of "it was a great event, nobody got killed..." are making allusions to people very nearly, but not actually, getting killed, then? (i.e. large falling rocks and equipment irregularities, such as those you mention above, Clunk) - were there any other "near hits", making the event a tad more Scary Mary?

Not a criticism, but an observation.


My reason for asking is this: after most trips me and my caving chums apply our standard review technique which is this:

What went right?
What went wrong?
What could have been done better?

The intention is to iron out inefficiencies (delays, redundant/insufficient gear, rigging choices etc.) and improve safety and the general underground experience, learning from mistakes/oversights and fine tuning our technique. My belief is that this approach is beneficial and my guess is that many trips occur without a review taking place, where poor practice or problems are simply forgotten or ignored.

Some of us, on the other hand, just go for fun!

All the rest of that stuff we try and leave behind in our working world.

...and improve safety

... how many "near misses" or "issues" per caving trip do you have to warrant a review?

Not a criticism, merely an observation. 

 

[darkplaces]

Your very much right Mr Cap 'n Chris to review standards and what could have been done better. We have done that, however no amount of review can totally remove the possibility that someone will miss something. A steep learning curve for clunk to check ones own equipment as well as others. The car sized or washing machine sized slate bits is simply a hazard of moving in these slate mines, you have no option to cross some very scary bits. Jagman himself implemented safe practice by explaining to members who had not traversed a slate pile to keep a good distance from the next person, to zigzag down in such a way so that your never above the person below, being wary of apparently solid chunks of slate which no matter how big being slippery can move across each other and cant be relied on for a hand/foot hold. A rope rub point was quickly identified (a hazard that has to be accepted will happen in slate mines), bashing of the razor sharp slate took place with rigging to 8 bolts hanging off cows tails, rope protectors installed. Reasoning took place as to how it was not spotted on other trips, we concluded loose slate falling from the take off point got jammed a small distance down in such a way as to create a new rub point. I was happy with all anchor points used over the week. lol 8 bolts on one  pitch. So yes in our own way we have concluded near misses, jokes will continue to be used to remind people of the points in a way everyone remembers. Openly discussing issues should always be recommended and encouraged I feel.

Addition: to Hughie's post while posting this. A review can simply be 'well I wont be doing THAT again!' down the pub. Doesn't need to be formal just as long as its discussed, even in a joking way it makes the point.

 

[clunk]

A flaw in capnchris' comment

caving

We are not cavers.
We were never forced to do anything, we always had the option to turn around and go back. If health and saftey was an issue, then we would of never of gotten past the entrances. We went to explore, meet friends and generally have fun. Which, judging by your post, you are too tied up in h+s to do any of these.
Try it, cancell all your caving memberships and explore a welsh slate mine. You never know, you may have fun.

Speaking of which, what is your health and saftey issue of using 120 foot ladders down the side of a chamber?

 

[graham]

A flaw in capnchris' comment

caving

We are not cavers.
We were never forced to do anything, we always had the option to turn around and go back. If health and saftey was an issue, then we would of never of gotten past the entrances. We went to explore, meet friends and generally have fun. Which, judging by your post, you are too tied up in h+s to do any of these.
Try it, cancell all your caving memberships and explore a welsh slate mine. You never know, you may have fun.

Speaking of which, what is your health and saftey issue of using 120 foot ladders down the side of a chamber?

WALOB

If you are not cavers I wonder what you are doing on ukcaving.com but that's a side issue.

When is anybody forced to do anything in caving - or even mine exploration? Well for one thing I imagine that turning around would be a tad tricky, after going down the zip line.

And why does it matter so much to you whether others are in caving clubs are not? Surely you would have less fun if you were not a member of that well-known Darkplaces club?

 

[clunk]

A flaw in capnchris' comment

caving

We are not cavers.
We were never forced to do anything, we always had the option to turn around and go back. If health and saftey was an issue, then we would of never of gotten past the entrances. We went to explore, meet friends and generally have fun. Which, judging by your post, you are too tied up in h+s to do any of these.
Try it, cancell all your caving memberships and explore a welsh slate mine. You never know, you may have fun.

Speaking of which, what is your health and saftey issue of using 120 foot ladders down the side of a chamber?

WALOB

If you are not cavers I wonder what you are doing on ukcaving.com but that's a side issue.

Im not feeling well

When is anybody forced to do anything in caving - or even mine exploration? Well for one thing I imagine that turning around would be a tad tricky, after going down the zip line.

I was simply pointing out that we were all there on our own merits and held ourselves resposible for our own actions. Had anything gone wrong then we have ourselves to blame

And why does it matter so much to you whether others are in caving clubs are not? Surely you would have less fun if you were not a member of that well-known Darkplaces club?

Where did you get this from? not from my post. but yes, I would have less fun without c**tplaces. But the places I visit are more fun then caves.

 

[darkplaces]

Cap 'n Chris has in the past talked of peer pressure forcing people to do things in an informal setting such as a DP excursion as opposed to a more formal, 'bona-fide BCA club' based trip. Members are simply expressing Sir Cap 'n Chris does not need to worry for members in this way.

ukcaving.com seams as good as any an interface with many mine explorers and (lol) cavers wishing to upgrade to mine explorer status.

You should be thankful we wish to keep a clear line between 'bona-fide' BCA clubs and the more informal arrangement, dip in dip out style of Darkplaces, its how we get more members per month then  'bona-fide' BCA style clubs. The difference we draw is that we are honest about access views, rather then a lot of people who spout the 'official access only' line constantly but are known to be prolific in breaking in themselves.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I am so glad I belong to a club that welcomes cavers and mine explorers alike, contains many members who enjoy both activities equally, and where cavers do not consider themselves superior to mine explorers, and mine explorers do not consider themselves superior to cavers.

We all value the pleasure of enjoying ourselves whatever we do too much than to risk spoiling everything by sniping at each other and our particular preferences.

I don't thank you for "keeping a clear line between 'bona fide' BCA clubs etc etc", because as long as you don't affect the legitimate activities of my club or cause it to come into disrepute, I don't give a toss how you prefer to spend your time.

Each to his own as they say.

Oh, and I want to add that our membership figures are pretty healthy, so some people obviously don't think that joining a good club is such a turn-off.