Dowsing

ChrisB said:
supported by the gullibility of the followers.
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I think you might be surprised at how genuinely some of these people's beliefs are held even in the most technologically advanced of societies. A case in point from one of my own numerous interactions with the inhabitants of our most fractious ex-colony. I was leading a walking group in the Dales and every time I explained how the numerous caves and potholes we were encountering came about I was refuted by scripture. According to this lovely couple the Earth was only around 6,000 years old so melting glaciers, dinosaurs etc all had to cram into that timescale. And don't even get started on 330 million-year-old limestone! They were perfectly happy to function in a scientific society - they'd flown over on a wonder of science and engineering and were recording everything on a technological triumph. The irony of their picking and choosing of which parts of science to embrace was lost to them. Other group members of the same colony had a much more enlightened outlook. I soon learned not to engage in pointless argument.
'Though thou shouldest bray a fool with a mortar among wheat with a pestle, yet will not his foolishness depart from him'.
 
A problem with dowsing as I see it is that usually other variables are not controlled and operators do not follow repeatable transits. There is no real attempt to discriminate between a normal background and anomalous results.

This is the protocol used in 2020 in one more rigorous test of dowsing along an altitude controlled route near a number of speleological significant sites:

"A complex protocol was planned with the aim of minimising the recording of chance deflections of the rods. The whole route was to be covered out and back, a total traverse of just over 6Km with every part duplicated in the opposite direction. The first 200m or so was treated as an orientation exercise, this was repeated twice in both directions before starting the full traverse. When any deflection of the rods occurred the survey would proceed in the original direction until 10m after the rods returned to their normal position. The section was then repeated twice in both directions, in order to see if the deflection was repeatable."

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spelfish said:
What were the investigators' conclusions?
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Wholly negative. No repeatable anomalies were seen. It was discovered that the rods with low friction plastic sleeves were susceptible to two forms of disturbance. Although a fairly sheltered route was followed on a calm day, light gusts of wind easily deflected the rods although this was very noticeable to the operator. Rather more surprising was that rod deflection could be caused by slightly careless finger placement by the operator, this was not immediately obvious to the operator. A deflection could also be caused by extreme pressure on the plastic sleeve, although this required a lot of conscious effort from the operator.

Here is a description of the most exciting event:

"During the southward return passage no deflection of the rods was observed until due west of Pwll y Gaseg Lwyd, about 300m before the southern starting point was reached. A sudden deflection of the right hand rod was immediately recognised as the result of the little finger on that hand slipping partly off the plastic sleeve and making contact with the base of the steel rod. This was attributed to operator inattention at the end of a long traverse. The section was carefully repeated several times without any deflection occurring. "
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I am not relying on the text in the Registry. I was there when it was found, or more accurately when the dig location was pin pointed. It was entered after two sessions of digging. A solid rock face was found during the first session which gave added enthusiasm for the second session.
 
The only cave I'm aware of that was dowsed before discovery and then turned out to go in the same direction once entered is Christmas Swallet near Castleton.

I know of many examples of those that didn't. Witches Cave (Ease Gill) was dowsed before we surveyed it, as it was being explored. The dowsing "result" was 180 degrees out. The dowser had confidently "followed" it in the expected direction of Lancaster Hole. Our later survey showed it U-turned close to the entrance and headed under Leck Fell. That's why the Shuttleworth Pot dig was done on Leck Fell to provide dry entry to Witches Cave II. Fortunately the diggers didn't rely on dowsing "results". ;)

I'm not going to name the dowser here as he's since passed away, sadly, so he's unable to respond. He was a really grand bloke and I'd not want anyone to denigrate him. He was a valuable member of our caving community for decades and a prolific writer about his dowsing attempts, flagging up certain alleged successes but never dwelling too much on the obvious failures.

I'm afraid my opinion remains, as mentioned in my first contribution to this topic, that dowsing is probably worse than useless as it produces lots of hydrological red herrings. Stick to the many well tried and tested methods of cave discovery.
 
www.ogof.org.uk

Pwll Y Pasg - Photos and Description

A description of Pwll Y Pasg, a cave on Llangattock, South Wales with photos inside the cave and a link to a map showing the caves location.
www.ogof.org.uk www.ogof.org.uk

"Ogof Llungwyn is a single passage cave and was discovered by digging in the same shakehole as Pwll Y Pasg looking for a continuation of the main Pwll Y Pasg passages at the opposite end of the shakehole. This shakehole entrance is now filled in, presumably after the underground connection was made."

"To the left leads to a corner where a dig has enlarged a tight tube that heads towards Ogof Llungwyn, this passage was blocked by a moderate collapse part way through when visited in April 09 but is believed to connect to Ogof Llungwyn."

(quotes reordered)

Not the most compelling argument in favour of dowsing - basically found a second entrance to a known cave in the same shakehole as the first entrance.
 
The continuation seems obvious with hindsight. Not so obvious at the time. The shake hole appears now to be a collapse of a junction between two passages. The other branch, as of yet undiscovered, would lead towards Ogof Newport. The initial excavated entrance to Llungwyn struck the centre of the passage. Lucky, or assisted luck?
 
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