Draenen & PDCMG
- Thread starter Graigwen
- Start date
Stuart France
Active member
Apparently so. I have received emails about the meeting with an agenda. It is by Zoom but no link to the meeting has been circulated. There is no publicity for it on the PDCMG.ORG website where the most recent 'news' items refer to 2021.
Graigwen
Active member
It is disappointing that meetings are kept more or less secret. I note that local organisations seeking to join are required by the PDCMG constitution to give written notice two weeks before a general meeting, this is a bit difficult if meetings are kept secret.
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Graigwen
Active member
It was not so much an announcement, but a single sentence at the end of an article on fixed aids... "A provisional date for the next meeting is 19 June.". No-one else I talked to knew about the meeting.
Stuart France
Active member
The date is not provisional. Attached is the agenda. It is definitely happening.
With 30 hours left to go, there is still no publicly available Zoom meeting link.
I can't help but get the feeling the PDCMG want to minimise the attendance at this meeting, given item 3(a) particularly.
With 30 hours left to go, there is still no publicly available Zoom meeting link.
I can't help but get the feeling the PDCMG want to minimise the attendance at this meeting, given item 3(a) particularly.
Stuart France
Active member
With less than 10 hours to go to the meeting, this has just come in from Sue Mabbett, PDCMG secretary, with typos corrected:
"As per my e-mail of 7th June, our next General Meeting is tonight at 7.30pm via Zoom. A member of our group with a Zoom account has offered to set up a Zoom meeting, however I am still waiting for this link so I will send later today. The freebie option only gives us 40 minutes meeting time so I am making [use] of an offer [from] someone with Zoom account."
"As per my e-mail of 7th June, our next General Meeting is tonight at 7.30pm via Zoom. A member of our group with a Zoom account has offered to set up a Zoom meeting, however I am still waiting for this link so I will send later today. The freebie option only gives us 40 minutes meeting time so I am making [use] of an offer [from] someone with Zoom account."
aricooperdavis
Moderator
The BCA has a Zoom account which it can use for things that it deems to be "BCA business". If any caving organisation would find this useful then feel free to get in touch with it@british-caving.org.uk and we might be able to assist.
Stuart France
Active member
Graigwen
Active member
It was very helpful of Stuart to post the link, but I decided a better use of my time was to complete the rewrite of some notes on the Blaenavon Railroad.
I look forward to seeing Stuart's summary of events, it will be a lot quicker than waiting a year for draft minutes to appear from the PDCMG.
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Graigwen
Active member
Stuart France
Active member
Just come in from Sue Mabbett tonight 16th Aug...
"Hi PDCMG Clubs, committee and interested parties I have attached the draft minutes from our meeting on 22nd Jun 2022. Apologies for delay I had almost completed them in early July but then I went off to France on holiday and I have only just finished writng them up. I will now start trying to find a suitable date for the EGM, as we are now in mid-August II will look at weekend dates at the end September." [sic]
Anyone wanting a copy please send me an email via the Cambrian website to arrange.
"Hi PDCMG Clubs, committee and interested parties I have attached the draft minutes from our meeting on 22nd Jun 2022. Apologies for delay I had almost completed them in early July but then I went off to France on holiday and I have only just finished writng them up. I will now start trying to find a suitable date for the EGM, as we are now in mid-August II will look at weekend dates at the end September." [sic]
Anyone wanting a copy please send me an email via the Cambrian website to arrange.
Stuart France
Active member
Some revised draft minutes for the last PDCMG meeting have just come in from Sue Mabbett to correct various spelling and grammatical and other mistakes - but not all, it seems, including the wrong weekday given for the previous meeting (it took place on a Tuesday not a Sunday as stated) and principle/principal and dependent/dependant are still wrong! Their next meeting has been postponed from 29th Nov to 6th Dec due to clashing with a football match.
The long-awaited EGM on adopting a new entrances policy has been announced as taking place on 9th Oct in Govilon (i.e. not a Zoom meeting). The calling notice for this meeting is addressed to "interested parties" so I've attached it here. The voting rights of course reside with the PDCMG member clubs and its officers.
The long-awaited EGM on adopting a new entrances policy has been announced as taking place on 9th Oct in Govilon (i.e. not a Zoom meeting). The calling notice for this meeting is addressed to "interested parties" so I've attached it here. The voting rights of course reside with the PDCMG member clubs and its officers.
Graigwen
Active member
I hope anyone interested in the currently kniown Ogof Dreanen or its potentially huge southwards extensions will attend.
Here are the sections of the PDCMG constitution that will govern this meeting:
6.5 An Extraordinary General Meeting may be called to discuss specific issues of importance to the Group. Extraordinary Meetings shall be
exempt from Clause [insert number]. An Extraordinary General Meeting shall be called if:
-requested by the Group Executive (Chairman, Hon Secretary and Treasurer), or
requested by at least six Members of the Group in writing, or
- agreed by the Group at a previous meeting
6.14 Each club representative and officer shall be entitled to one vote. Individual club representatives may be substituted by their club in
order to ensure attendance, however proxy voting for absent officers or absent clubs is not permitted. Decisions shall be made on a
majority vote. In the event of a tie the Chairman shall vote in favour of the status quo. Co-opted persons shall not be entitled to vote
6.15 Bona fide interested observers will be welcome to attend meetings, at the discretion of the Group, but may not speak unless invited to do so.
I do not know what other clause was intended to be excluded by Clause 6.5.
If you have an interest in this subject it would be a good idea to attend. It would seem to be in everyones interest, including PDCMG, that a broad range of views are expressed. At the last meeting I attended non-voting observers were allowed to speak.
Here are the sections of the PDCMG constitution that will govern this meeting:
6.5 An Extraordinary General Meeting may be called to discuss specific issues of importance to the Group. Extraordinary Meetings shall be
exempt from Clause [insert number]. An Extraordinary General Meeting shall be called if:
-requested by the Group Executive (Chairman, Hon Secretary and Treasurer), or
requested by at least six Members of the Group in writing, or
- agreed by the Group at a previous meeting
6.14 Each club representative and officer shall be entitled to one vote. Individual club representatives may be substituted by their club in
order to ensure attendance, however proxy voting for absent officers or absent clubs is not permitted. Decisions shall be made on a
majority vote. In the event of a tie the Chairman shall vote in favour of the status quo. Co-opted persons shall not be entitled to vote
6.15 Bona fide interested observers will be welcome to attend meetings, at the discretion of the Group, but may not speak unless invited to do so.
I do not know what other clause was intended to be excluded by Clause 6.5.
If you have an interest in this subject it would be a good idea to attend. It would seem to be in everyones interest, including PDCMG, that a broad range of views are expressed. At the last meeting I attended non-voting observers were allowed to speak.
From afar this sounds like a crazy situation. If I understand it right, there are several entrances which have been in use for years but the cave management has a single entrance policy. So after all this time there is a meeting to vote on whether to recognise these other well known entrances. I imagine that whoever does attend the meeting there will be an elephant in the room too.
Geomorphology and the tenacity of diggers dictates that this is a multiple entrance system. It is impossible not to accept that, isn't it?
Geomorphology and the tenacity of diggers dictates that this is a multiple entrance system. It is impossible not to accept that, isn't it?
Andy Farrant
Active member
Shame it's not on Zoom... and yes, from a geomorphological perspective, Draenen could have at least a dozen entrances, some via existing ungated caves. Do bats get a vote?!
RobinGriffiths
Well-known member
I think that the landowner has "requested there be a single entrance". To what extent that has or has not been suggested to him I know not.
Speleofish
Active member
Is all the land overlying the cave owned by the same person?
PeteHall
Moderator
no, far from it.
