"Emergency Climbing Rope"
- Thread starter JAshley73
- Start date
hyweldavies
Active member
Good to see that Earl Grey tea is still considered essential equipment
Did you know communists only drink Earl Grey tea?
It's because proper-tea is theft
Cantclimbtom
Well-known member
URL below from IanP post in the WhatsApp Caving Related thing did you do today. Thought it may be relevant to the original post of this thread.
Petzl pic shows it being used in a new style Stop, although normally that'd not support such a thin rope. Watching more posts with interest to see what he thinks of it?
Petzl pic shows it being used in a new style Stop, although normally that'd not support such a thin rope. Watching more posts with interest to see what he thinks of it?
JoshW
Well-known member
Petzl have a technical notice of how to rig the 7mm line in a bobbin style device with an extra loop
Samouse1
Well-known member
I can chime in, as I tested some out to see if Inglesport (where Ian purchased said cord) should stock it. It could easily be a thread of its own I think!
Firstly, Petzl specify that it is a technical cord for "expert" use, though what counts as an expert is undefined. There are three uses I can see it being used for in UK caving.
1. A short line for setting up hauls/breaking into a loaded line. Five metres is barely noticeable weight wise, and can be used with a few bits of rescue kit to set up a haul.
2. Pull through cord. Used on the pull down side to save weight. Fairly self explanatory, can be used as an emergency rope to get you out of a pinch
3. For use in descent and ascent. Here is where it gets a bit more complicated, and definitely not a bit of kit for everyone. As Josh pointed out, there is a different way to rig your descender, first a standard S rig, then an O rig to add more friction. On descent I think this feels close to 9mm rope handling wise, although great care is still needed. I have only used a Simple, though a friend did use a Stop, I will ask if it actually stopped.
Ascent is the same as normal in terms of gear, but you really do feel like you're going up a shoelace. The rigging needs to be immaculate to avoid any rub at all. I even consider how close it could be with some swinging about due to prussiking. "Breakable" knots (BotB, fusion) are highly recommended if you want to be able to untie it once weighted.
The big benefit is being able to squeeze 60m of the stuff into a 6 litre Daren Drum. I turned up to a trip and a friend was in disbelief that there was enough in the bag to get us down the cave.
My recommendation for anyone seriously considering using it for ascent/descent (not just in a "ooh look at me Billy big balls using the thinnest stuff possible" way), really get some practice in on the surface, and only use it where you really need to. Most places and trips don't justify the increased risks.
I know most of this will be preaching to the converted, most people who would consider using this already know the risks and mitigations, but it's worth saying it all again in case some don't!
Cantclimbtom
Well-known member
Petzl Basic ascender as an example "...Rope compatibility: 8 to 11 mm.." (https://m.petzl.com/INT/en/Sport/Ascenders/BASIC) , 7mm really is pushing it 
Mark Wright
Well-known member
The 8mm - 11mm rope compatibility Petzl mention is for the basic ascender to be able to pass the EN567 tests. Its
a requirement of the standard that the compatible rope diameters are marked on the product.
If people are happy to use 7mm accessory cord (washing line) then an ascender's conformance to an appropriate
EN standard is probably not so important to them.
I usually shit myself on the rare occasion I use 8mm so, as Cantclimbtom says, it would be pushing it for me as well.
As Samouse1 says, your rigging would need to be immaculate.
If anyone was wondering whether or not they were an 'expert' enough user, then they probably aren't.
a requirement of the standard that the compatible rope diameters are marked on the product.
If people are happy to use 7mm accessory cord (washing line) then an ascender's conformance to an appropriate
EN standard is probably not so important to them.
I usually shit myself on the rare occasion I use 8mm so, as Cantclimbtom says, it would be pushing it for me as well.
As Samouse1 says, your rigging would need to be immaculate.
If anyone was wondering whether or not they were an 'expert' enough user, then they probably aren't.
JoshW
Well-known member
My rescue cord used to be 5mm dyneema cord that worked with my basic, Croll and micro-traxion.Petzl Basic ascender as an example "...Rope compatibility: 8 to 11 mm.." (https://m.petzl.com/INT/en/Sport/Ascenders/BASIC) , 7mm really is pushing it
So I guess a similar note to mark’s above: it needs to be Xmm to work with certain en standards, but in practice much thinner cords *can* work
JAshley73
Active member
JAshley73
Active member
I can't remember if I posted this before or where, but I did play with climbing the 7mm rope/cord posted on page 2, in my garage. Quite terrifying if I must say, and certainly not something I'd want to plan on using for true SRT. I believe I used a STOP and a 6-bar rack, and both were, shall we say, a challenge to maintain control.
I'm curious now to try it again on the STOP, but with the double-wrap as show above. Not of course as a "plan," but just to satisfy curiosity, and store away for a while.
I'm happy to report though, that I HAVE deployed it - unsucessfully however - as a hand-line for a rather uncomfortable climb-down spot. Bugger that it was blocked with a rock. It didn't help as a haul-line of said rock either...
But it WAS in my pack, and it WAS deployed. Who needs more justification than that, amiright...?
I'm curious now to try it again on the STOP, but with the double-wrap as show above. Not of course as a "plan," but just to satisfy curiosity, and store away for a while.
I'm happy to report though, that I HAVE deployed it - unsucessfully however - as a hand-line for a rather uncomfortable climb-down spot. Bugger that it was blocked with a rock. It didn't help as a haul-line of said rock either...
But it WAS in my pack, and it WAS deployed. Who needs more justification than that, amiright...?
JAshley73
Active member
I HAVE used this rope in-cave, and it was interesting. A friend brought a piece 50' long, and we used it "American style" to descend a 20-25' pit in-cave. Anchored to webbing around a rock feature, but no padding, and most certainly touching the rock in several places. The owner being very experienced with SRT & rescue, and it was given to him by yet another rescue veteran.
The hyper-static nature and tough sheath makes it 'safe' for such negligence I guess. It rapelled OK, and wasn't nearly as frightening as the 7mm rope/cord in my pack. It did climb beautifully, being so static. It also isn't too stiff, so it handles nicely.
We used this just a couple weekends ago in a self-rescue class. We setup a counter-balance "assist" system with this rope - both ends running over the ledge. The rope's owner / rescuer / instructor insisted that we wouldn't hurt the rope, and he was certainly correct. Aside from superficial cave-dirt, not a mark or scratch on the sheath. Interesting stuff.
If only one wasn't scared away by the price, this would certainly be very good "emergency" rope.
(Yes I can already hear Alpine SRT aficionado's raging at me for this...)
The hyper-static nature and tough sheath makes it 'safe' for such negligence I guess. It rapelled OK, and wasn't nearly as frightening as the 7mm rope/cord in my pack. It did climb beautifully, being so static. It also isn't too stiff, so it handles nicely.
We used this just a couple weekends ago in a self-rescue class. We setup a counter-balance "assist" system with this rope - both ends running over the ledge. The rope's owner / rescuer / instructor insisted that we wouldn't hurt the rope, and he was certainly correct. Aside from superficial cave-dirt, not a mark or scratch on the sheath. Interesting stuff.
If only one wasn't scared away by the price, this would certainly be very good "emergency" rope.
(Yes I can already hear Alpine SRT aficionado's raging at me for this...)
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