Found these oval steel lockers

[wiggle]

Hi I found these on amozon for £5

Silverline 253600 Screwgate Karabiner 19 mm Gate​

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0...=pla-421986556248&hvrand=4567936214210796480#

Do you think they are ok in reviews saw someone saying great use for work last well good budget crab seemed like he was an arborist as was attaced to petzl zig zag. Just want to know your thoughts. Thanks very much

 

[wellyjen]

CE and UIAA markings? Passed EN 12275:2013?
Is your life worth only £5?

 

[pwhole]

I wouldn't. But a quick search from a reliable retailer found these, which are CE-marked and have an individual serial number, for £5.88:

https://www.abaris.co.uk/At-Height-UK-Steel-Oval-Screwgate-Karabiner-Hook-Nose

 

[PeteHall]

"Silverline" is one of those budget tool brands that I avoid, even for DIY hand tools.

They are probably fine, but I'd rather pay a bit more and get something I know I can trust, particularly if my life will depend on it.

 

[IanWalker]

What do you want to use it for? If its the aerial ropes course in your other thread, I would reckon its worth getting a well-known climbing brand.

Inglesport will sell you a Lyon krab for £5.40. If you're buying a lot you could ask for a discount

Foin Screwgate | Inglesport Pro

Lyon Foin screwgate connector, EN 362. Buy at Inglesport.

is-pro.co.uk

 

[Flotsam]

They'll last a lifetime

 

[wellyjen]

They'll last a lifetime

It's guaranteed!

If you flex your photography, or writing skills, there are ten top quality krabs going for a much better price.
https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?threads/coming-soon-win-10-x-dmm-perfecto-screwgate-karabiners-in-our-christmas-competition.32675/

 

[legendrider]

When I first started underground exploration and was youthful, skint and eager for some SRT kit, it was impressed on me in the strongest possible terms NEVER to buy cheapo DIY-shop krabs, maillons etc, even just for gear hauling or deviations, as it was inevitable that someday one would find its way into a critical load path when a spare was needed!

 

[ChrisB]

as it was inevitable that someday one would find its way into a critical load path when a spare was needed!

Quite agree. Plus, if you're going to carry cheap krabs for gear hauling, presumably you're also going to carry good ones for more critical use, which is extra weight.

 

[wiggle]

What do you want to use it for? If its the aerial ropes course in your other thread, I would reckon its worth getting a well-known climbing brand.

Inglesport will sell you a Lyon krab for £5.40. If you're buying a lot you could ask for a discount

Foin Screwgate | Inglesport Pro

Lyon Foin screwgate connector, EN 362. Buy at Inglesport.

is-pro.co.uk

Thanks I did buy some a few months ago exactly the same

 

[wiggle]

Thank you everyone mainly asked as interested but thank you all very much.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

pwhole and Ianwalker carabiners are only around the £5 mark but totally trustworthy. You should consider some of those if you're on a budget but don't get too many as one day you'll want to upgrade them for lighter ones.

*Many* (many) years ago when things were rated 2500kg not 25kN I did a bit of rope access and we used ones just like the Foin D ones as they were the cheapest, but a string of them gets heavy. They work though... and are indestructible in normal usage. Plus misuse like e.g. bending it over an edge, is always bad but less serious than for ally ones (steel bends, alloy snaps)

Don't think "but this is stamped 25kN so it must be great", the issue is, by definition of averages, half the carabiners break weaker than average and half break stronger than average. The difference good quality gives you is that variation of an individual krab compared to overall population is small, so they all break quite similar.

Suspicious cheap kit... even if it on average did meet the published numbers (and often that stuff doesn't!) has the bigger problem that every now and again there might be a dud one, or a dud batch, and the variability is big, which means you can never trust anything.

For little more than a £5 each! get the quality ones pwhole and Ianwalker linked.

 

[JoshW]

*Many* (many) years ago when things were rated 2500kg not 25kN

Things are still rated kg as opposed to kN if they are lifting equipment (working load limit) as opposed to PPE climbing equipment (minimum breaking strain).

Agreed with the majority in this thread, cheap legitimate carabiners like those linked are like a fiver, much cheaper than the cost of supporting yourself when you can’t work because of failed Amazon shite

 

[ChrisB]

Don't think "but this is stamped 25kN so it must be great", the issue is, by definition of averages, half the carabiners break weaker than average and half break stronger than average.

If it's just stamped 25kN that tells you nothing about how that 25kN was calculated, it's up to the manufacturer. It could be average, it could be based on one krab in 500 being tested, it could be based on a static load applied slowly, etc.

If it's stamped 25kN EN12275 then it will be the 'minimum breaking load', tested according to a well defined sampling regime, defined testing method in terms of strain rate and probably something like 95% or 98% confidence level - I don't have access to EN12275 itself but that's the way such standards are written.

Things are still rated kg as opposed to kN if they are lifting equipment

Thanks for that Josh, I wasn't aware of that. I assume if it's a specified load mass, it must be based on a static load, so would be unreliable if the load was applied suddenly, even if the peak force was the same.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

I'd made reference to the dark ages when ratings like 2500 kg were stamped on the side of krabs and other climbing kit by reputable brands like Clog, Camp etc so at one time seeing kg stamped on the side of a krab was normal, not the huge alarm bell for bad climbing/caving kit it is today! (but young whippersnappers like Josh probably wouldn't remember those days)

 

[alanw]

I'd made reference to the dark ages when ratings like 2500 kg were stamped on the side of krabs and other climbing kit by reputable brands like Clog ...

Like these?

 

[Chocolate fireguard]

I assume if it's a specified load mass, it must be based on a static load, so would be unreliable if the load was applied suddenly, even if the peak force was the same.

That seems to suggest that a load present for a short time is more damaging than the same load present for a longer time.
Which doesn't seem right.
When the krab is loaded the (very small amount of) energy involved is distributed throughout the material by waves.
The wave speed in steel is 3 to 6km/s, depending on the type of wave.
So if the load duration is a millisecond (impossibly short in practice - a caver fall would be arrested in a couple of hundred ms) the waves can travel several metres in that time and the energy is distributed throughout the krab in the same way as in the static load.

 

[Loki]

If it's just stamped 25kN that tells you nothing about how that 25kN was calculated, it's up to the manufacturer. It could be average, it could be based on one krab in 500 being tested, it could be based on a static load applied slowly, etc.

If it's stamped 25kN EN12275 then it will be the 'minimum breaking load', tested according to a well defined sampling regime, defined testing method in terms of strain rate and probably something like 95% or 98% confidence level - I don't have access to EN12275 itself but that's the way such standards are written.

Thanks for that Josh, I wasn't aware of that. I assume if it's a specified load mass, it must be based on a static load, so would be unreliable if the load was applied suddenly, even if the peak force was the same.

The krab in the op are EN362 which is the industrial Connector standard, harmonised inder the PPE Regulation. The standard merely states the test requirements for a single item, not the test regime for production. It’s up to the manufacturer and the independent body auditing their quality control to determine what that regime is.
Incidentally Wiggle you have another post about slacklines. I don’t know if the two posts are related but I strongly advise against using karabiners and any slacklining forum will back this up. Maillons and shackles are the things to use as they are not an open loop with a gate that allows the body to flex. If you want more info on this look up ksrabiner failures on paragliders when people have used mountaineering crabs.

 

[ChrisB]

So if the load duration is a millisecond (impossibly short in practice - a caver fall would be arrested in a couple of hundred ms) the waves can travel several metres in that time and the energy is distributed throughout the krab in the same way as in the static load.

I'm not disagreeing, shock waves are not my field, but I was thinking of strain rate. I've seen brittle fracture of steel under earthquake loading, maybe 3-6Hz.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Like these?
View attachment 21307

Just the sort of thing!
I would caution you they're starting to look a bit old, there might only be another 30 years service life in them, so be sure to replace them after that point