Gentlewoman's/Ringing Rake

[Tangent_tracker]

I think it should be said folks, that the connection between Old Jant and the sough is no trivial matter now... I was on a trip with some fellow cavers yesterday and not everyone could get through, the quantity of water with the amount of silt made for a technically challenging dig, with just over an inch to spare for breathing space...

Something has changed because I always remember it to be a fairly straight forward dig through the first arch, but that's the easy bit now! Seems to be different post-covid but maybe I was lucky previously!

So be prepared for long periods lying in cold running water over your face and/or making the return journey back up through the stopes...

And knowing someone has done it the week before will not give you any idea what it will be like when you get there!

 

[paul]

CALL OUT 456 Ringing Rake Sough – Derbyshire Cave Rescue Organisation

derbyshirecro.org.uk

 

[FabianE]

Maybe this connection needs some serious engineering to make it a little easier to pass.
It'd be a shame to have it lost.

 

[skippy]

Where Tangent Tracker is meaning is not where the rescue was the other week.. That is now clear due to further engineering by local cavers.
These are the silted ducks/squeezes.
I spluttered through and there was only 2inchs of airspace....and despite digging out the silt, it was still tight.
I lowered the water level slightly.
The caver on the FB reel is quite a small chap.

Video

www.facebook.com

As TT said, to reverse out from here will be very tiring.

 

[Tangent_tracker]

Where Tangent Tracker is meaning is not where the rescue was the other week.. That is now clear due to further engineering by local cavers.
These are the silted ducks/squeezes.
I spluttered through and there was only 2inchs of airspace....and despite digging out the silt, it was still tight.
I lowered the water level slightly.
The caver on the FB reel is quite a small chap.

Video

www.facebook.com

As TT said, to reverse out from here will be very tiring.

It's not too bad Glenn, but I swore I'd never head up that shaft LOL... I was concerned that Anna and Karolina had been sat in the water too long trying to get through, so we kept them moving, and AJ had an amazing jacket that kept folks warm waiting for their turn up the pitch!

Glad I experienced the return through the stope though... It is definately a little more technically challenging in some parts to climb!

 

[Tangent_tracker]

CALL OUT 456 Ringing Rake Sough – Derbyshire Cave Rescue Organisation

derbyshirecro.org.uk

Yes it's precisely for this reason I put the post up really... There have been a couple rescues here now, and back last time it wasn't due to the squeeze.. Just felt folks should know it's not as easy as it once was to get through the choke!

 

[Tangent_tracker]

Maybe this connection needs some serious engineering to make it a little easier to pass.
It'd be a shame to have it lost.

I think Nigel B is returning in the summer. I might join him if he needs the help!

 

[pwhole]

This is all getting a bit repetitive - and increasingly dangerous. The site needs some serious engineering work to keep open, but just doing through trips regardless is asking for trouble. I'm not on Facebook, and so am blissfully unaware of any trips here (until they go wrong), but this has been going on for several years now, and no serious work has even been attempted. All the various cave and mine groups need to be involved in a coordinated project if this is to be permanently resolved. If folks keep getting rescued it just makes us look like pricks, so let's focus on the actual work that needs doing, or it won't be an option at all in future.

 

[owd git]

This is all getting a bit repetitive - and increasingly dangerous. The site needs some serious engineering work to keep open, but just doing through trips regardless is asking for trouble. I'm not on Facebook, and so am blissfully unaware of any trips here (until they go wrong), but this has been going on for several years now, and no serious work has even been attempted. All the various cave and mine groups need to be involved in a coordinated project if this is to be permanently resolved. If folks keep getting rescued it just makes us look like pricks, so let's focus on the actual work that needs doing, or it won't be an option at all in future.

Hi Phil & all. I am not quite well enough at the moment to go and look; tho' I'm wondering if people are slightly miss-judging this route. and over stating danger .where in the past it was well known to need (weather dependant) gardening to allow enough space within the two squeezes ; this required tooling and aa area cleared to fetch deads and packed fines from the second squeeze to within the small chamber (which when younger and cancer free i, @ 5'6" had difficulty turning round in to retreat or re stack material). this material would wash back down to the squeeze as quickly or slowly as the amount of water passing through decree ed. the levels of airspace under the second was all about clearing enough packed fines ,with a reasonable rake/hoe or similar to allow kicking downhill to make clear passage sufficient for a Zomjon and anyone else whose demise you didn't want on your conscience.. Never, ever allow the small fast whippet dig,and then tell you it's o.k. now!!!
Lastly, points well made by all. great care and understanding of the real possibility of turning back must be understood as re=passing squeezes is as possibly problematic as heading downhill.
a work party to make space within the small chamber, by shifting 'dug out deads' to goodness-knows where is possibly needed on a regular ish scale.
Information is KEY! also not on facebook like Phill so posting here is a beautiful and call-out saving thing.
Call out = make really sure if you are unsure of route, or ability of any member of your party.
Also leave vehicle and correct key at top and bottom of trip. it's a bloody long walk back to the top, via Salters lane, and the A6.
Don't forget to enjoy the marvelous geology and petrology of Masson. and if you have time take a compass and check out the only place i know to prove the reversing of the magnetic polarity of our world. who could want for more eh??
I will give it a go later in the year with good luck. keep well ./ O.G.

 

[pwhole]

We had a similar, though not identical problem at Longcliffe, where slopes of gravel and deads threatened to slump downwards, permanently blocking the route - and permanently trapping someone inside if they were beyond there. Our arrival had clearly de-stabilised what was once quite a nice staircase/buttressed construction which ultimately supports the (artificial) stone floor of the main shaft - and so this pinch-point was actually the lynch-pin of the whole structure, and we would have lost the extensions if we hadn't worked quickly to fix it.

But we built two retaining walls of scaffolding and synthetic decking planks, reinforced with rockmesh to keep the gravel in place, and on the lower wall, where the gravel was very small, the rockmesh was also protected from above with perforated rubber doormats to prevent caver damage and slippage through the mesh, but allow for free water drainage. Then all the loose deads and gravel could be stabilised above them. In the case of Gentlewoman's, it's complicated by having low arches immediately afterwards, so the walls would need to be built with sufficient clearance backward to allow folks to actually get down to floor-level comfortably, but it's all doable, and just needs a co-ordinated team working over a few weeks (ideally in summer) to get all this back in shape.

As a DCA Officer, I can confirm we have been discussing this issue for ages, but it would be helpful to all if folks just stopped trying to do the through-trip for now, and just concentrate on doing the top or bottom halves only. There's still plenty to see at either end, and there's loads of sediment-filled natural phreatic cave just off the entrance shaft base, and another passage next to it full of graffiti scratched on the walls. A trip down to Overseer Chamber and back is extremely good fun, with little risk. Similarly, Ringing Rake Sough, and the workings in Old Jant Mine are fantastic, and can easily take up several hours if you actually look at stuff. And yes, if you can also see a compass spin round, what's not to like?

 

[sjt]

How much do the water levels fluctuate seasonally/based on rainfall?

 

[pwhole]

This pack is directly above the small climbing shaft that leads to the problem area described above - and is essentially the base of the shaft floor. Again, it would have been catastrophic for this to collapse, so more rockmesh (thanks to Mark Noble) and scaff was employed here. Again, the water just runs straight through it all. This took less than two hours to install - and my rubber mallet finally found its purpose in life

 

[Tangent_tracker]

This is all getting a bit repetitive - and increasingly dangerous. The site needs some serious engineering work to keep open, but just doing through trips regardless is asking for trouble. I'm not on Facebook, and so am blissfully unaware of any trips here (until they go wrong), but this has been going on for several years now, and no serious work has even been attempted. All the various cave and mine groups need to be involved in a coordinated project if this is to be permanently resolved. If folks keep getting rescued it just makes us look like pricks, so let's focus on the actual work that needs doing, or it won't be an option at all in future.

But Phil this is where the DCA needs to step in! I agree it is getting worse every visit, but to many this is a sporty through trip often described as one of the more exciting trips in Derbyshire. In recent times I have always considered the option of heading back, which half our party did on this occasion. I spoke to Wayne today and suggested something is more actively done to make people think twice before entering - such as putting a discrete notice in the entrance at GW shaft...

And I think to the very experienced people last weekend present, this is a good challenge. The problem is those who hear about the trip but don't have the fitness/experience.

 

[Tangent_tracker]

Hi Phil & all. I am not quite well enough at the moment to go and look; tho' I'm wondering if people are slightly miss-judging this route. and over stating danger

It has definitely gotten quite a bit worse.. And the length of the duck seems to be longer than is has been in the past..

 

[Tangent_tracker]

The description here should probably be changed as a matter of urgency?

Derwent South : Gentlewoman's Pipe Climbing Shaft : Details

Locations: Peak District, Location: Derbyshire, Location: Staffordshire, Caves, Mines, Potholes, Caving, Potholing, Guides, Surveys, Speleology, Hydrology

peakdistrictcaving.info

 

[Tangent_tracker]

Hi Phil & all. I am not quite well enough at the moment to go and look; tho' I'm wondering if people are slightly miss-judging this route. and over stating danger .where in the past it was well known to need (weather dependant) gardening to allow enough space within the two squeezes ; this required tooling and aa area cleared to fetch deads and packed fines from the second squeeze to within the small chamber (which when younger and cancer free i, @ 5'6" had difficulty turning round in to retreat or re stack material). this material would wash back down to the squeeze as quickly or slowly as the amount of water passing through decree ed. the levels of airspace under the second was all about clearing enough packed fines ,with a reasonable rake/hoe or similar to allow kicking downhill to make clear passage sufficient for a Zomjon and anyone else whose demise you didn't want on your conscience.. Never, ever allow the small fast whippet dig,and then tell you it's o.k. now!!!
Lastly, points well made by all. great care and understanding of the real possibility of turning back must be understood as re=passing squeezes is as possibly problematic as heading downhill.
a work party to make space within the small chamber, by shifting 'dug out deads' to goodness-knows where is possibly needed on a regular ish scale.
Information is KEY! also not on facebook like Phill so posting here is a beautiful and call-out saving thing.
Call out = make really sure if you are unsure of route, or ability of any member of your party.
Also leave vehicle and correct key at top and bottom of trip. it's a bloody long walk back to the top, via Salters lane, and the A6.
Don't forget to enjoy the marvelous geology and petrology of Masson. and if you have time take a compass and check out the only place i know to prove the reversing of the magnetic polarity of our world. who could want for more eh??
I will give it a go later in the year with good luck. keep well ./ O.G.

I would love to join you if you are up for that? It would be good to join someone who is knowledgeable about the place! I didn't know about the compass!

 

[Brains]

As an aside, I seem to recall one of those squeezes washed clear, and was reinstated for "sporting reasons" - in a mine?
Also decades ago the coffin level in the Hillocks oil drum entrance had an enamel bowl to aid digging to keep it clear. After some years the bowl disappeared. Again years later I cleared the crawl of loose sediment. I was disparaged on here for spoiling the "sporting nature" of having a frequently sumped wet squirm! Again persons unknown refilled the crawl with fine tailings rather gravel and cobbles. It now frequently sumps and is much harder to clear as the tailings "set"