Ice Tools for Caving?

[JAshley73]

Somewhat in jest, somewhat serious. Has anyone ever used any ice tools when caving?

Awesome cave in the Tennesse/USA area with big huge passages, but one problem throughout - the unforgiving mud! I kept telling myself, "Crampons would be dandy through here..." (Probably not actually.)

Another cave local, earlier this year after the spring rains, the steep uphill climbs were especially soft and slick. Some Ice-Axe's would sure have been nice! (Probably not actually.)

On a rock-climbing forum, someone started a thread highlighting "The Best Off-Use For An Ice Axe" and it made me think of muddy caves again.



So, just for fun, perhaps, has anyone used any ice tools for their caving before?

 

[langcliffe]

My wife and I climbed down the shaft in Grotte Casteret using ice axe and crampons, but I guess that's a conventional use and doesn't count.

 

[hannahb]

Yes, once. Those instep-type spikes on my wellies for an Ease Gill trip involved slippery mud and holes/drops to traverse around that made me nervous. It worked but my companions were not impressed and it was a faff taking them on an off for the bouldery parts, for which they were worse than worn out wellies. I have grown in confidence since then and not needed them again

 

[ChrisB]

I suspect the kind of mud that crampons would grip in would also ball up on them. Ice axes wouldn't do much for cave conservation. I know axes and crampons were used to climb the chalk cliffs at Dover, but they erode so fast naturally it didn't make much difference.

 

[andrewmcleod]

Yes, I haven't tried it personally but ice axes have been used many times in the past in the Dachstein for climbing mud. Crampons were apparently not useful.

 

[paul]

See Sid Perou's "Caves of Glass" video:

 

[Duncan Price]

I've used an ice axe for digging - in compacted pebbles/mud. I suppose a small pick would have been just as good but the ice axe was lighter and easy to use. It wasn't my ice axe - just what was left at the dig face.

I've also used a pick axe for climbing mud slopes as I don't own an ice axe.

 

[alanw]

An ice axe turned up at our archaeological dig for raking through the spoil.

 

[JasonC]

Sleets Gill (which will be familiar to many here, but probably not to J Ashley) has an impressive feature called the ramp, a 45 degree muddy slope, which tends to be wet, as the preceding passage is aqueous.
I was the last to ascend on a recent trip and found myself completely unable to get up one section (one step up, two steps down, repeated) - and just needed the little extra traction that an ice-axe would have been perfect for. So, next time....

 

[munchkin]

Sleets Gill (which will be familiar to many here, but probably not to J Ashley) has an impressive feature called the ramp, a 45 degree muddy slope, which tends to be wet, as the preceding passage is aqueous.
I was the last to ascend on a recent trip and found myself completely unable to get up one section (one step up, two steps down, repeated) - and just needed the little extra traction that an ice-axe would have been perfect for. So, next time....

I ended up in a similar situation last time I went, arguably it was probably more of a mental thing than real as I didn't want end up careening uncontrollably down onto the head of my partner. But next time I go some micro-spikes might end up making their way into my personal tackle sack.

 

[Samouse1]

There were crampon and axe marks in the mud on the ramp when I was there last!

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Oh come on JAshley, we thought you'd been caving before . Of course people bring ice tools on every trip, it'd be impossible without them. At least once in every trip you also have to run and jump a gap slightly wider than you can make, and just catch yourself with the ice tool on the lip of the drop. Next you'll be asking if people walk about with a burning flare held over their head??

To show you how it's all done, here's a trailer to some GoPro footage of an average caving trip. Some girls go caving in the Mendips and bump into some of the local cavers there and make friends

The Descent (2005) ⭐ 7.2 | Adventure, Horror, Thriller

1h 39m | 18

m.imdb.com

 

[Mark]

We had an old fridge in the Hole in the wall dig in Stoney Middleton to keep our sandwiches and stuff in, if that counts as an ice tool?

 

[wellyjen]

Have you been watching that well known caving documentary The Descent? No crampons, but plenty of ice axes.

 

[Mark Wright]

I don't have an electronic copy of the photograph to hand, but there is a photo of Chris Blakeley on page 74 of the Gouffre Berger book wearing a pair of crampons to steady himself as Robbie Shone took the photo of the very icy Holiday Slides.

Most cavers only visit the cave in the summer months and all the ice has usually melted by then. There is a LOT of ice on them in May when the photograph was taken. It was first explored in May which is probably why it was called the Holiday Slides.

 

[JAshley73]

Two points of transparency.

1- I had never actually thought of their legitimate use, where frozen ice in the cave or entrance is a real possibility.

2- I've never seen "The Descent." I don't know if I can bring myself to it as I can't stand cheesy movies, but maybe one day...

2b - "Time Trap" on Netflix is equally awful, but I had to finish it once started...

 

[alanw]

Here's the old "Descent Training Video"

 

[Martin Laverty]

"Mike [Meredith] donned his crampons. They had been brought to Sarawak more as a joke than in serious expectation of their use, but in fact proved highly practical" [in tropical karst]
p.34 of Caves of Mulu 84

 

[Tritim230]

As per my recent KPH write-up, I used a crow bar as a mud axe to help pull me along a narrow and extremely muddy and slippery tube. It worked a treat.

 

[mikem]

Original The Descent was filmed in UK, but using sets for the underground scenes, part 2 they had the budget to film at home (USA) - several people have probably wished they had ice axes when crossing the frozen exit of daren cilau...