Is it OK to go caving?

[AR]

Should we go digging with crowbars strapped to our backs just to ward of some of the (err, well, I could call them unwashed, but people in glasshouses ) less thoughtful visitors...

Try a ranging pole - 2m in length with a spike on the end to point at the person you wish to keep at the advised distance...

 

[RobinGriffiths]

Mixed messages from DJ Bojo and his posse (The Rock Steady Sage homies + his political advisor). It doesn't help that the papers are musing about coronovirus 'dark matter', in that it's already swept through us. Iran suggest otherwise.

 

[mikem]

There are over 2000 caves on Mendip, very few are actually locked, but most of the popular ones are currently closed. Plenty more to check out that aren't likely to attract large crowds...

 

[owd git]

Surely any caver who has had the pleasure of re-taking or posing for 'the right shot' underground will confirm the build up of dust and condensation/ droplets in the way of artistic masterpieces?
Just saying!
My risk assessment is mine, my asthmatic partners, my work colleagues vulnerable self isolating in-laws, the lady in the offie'........................ uncle tom cobley etc'.
That said, neck on block; I would venture out discretely, in a trusted very small group,  to a non sensitive site. there are plenty about.
keep safe. O. G.

 

[JohnMCooper]

mikem

but most of the popular ones are currently closed

What evidence do you have to support this statement?

The only ones I have heard officially is ones controlled by CCCLtd

Talking to someone yesterday who had been talking to the Swildon's landowner who said the cave was open. I don't think the locals would like lots of cavers though.

Perhaps the CSCC Conservation and ACCESS officer could let us know?

 

[Duck ditch]

Owd gits comment is very interesting.  There is an awful lot of steam Etc about.  How much of that is coming from you?  The sneeze droplet video taken in a supermarket is uncomfortable to watch.  Mmm worth thinking about.

 

[The Old Ruminator]

mikem

but most of the popular ones are currently closed

What evidence do you have to support this statement?

The only ones I have heard officially is ones controlled by CCCLtd

Talking to someone yesterday who had been talking to the Swildon's landowner who said the cave was open. I don't think the locals would like lots of cavers though.

Perhaps the CSCC Conservation and ACCESS officer could let us know?

Hi JC. All Fairy Cave Quarry Caves are officially closed as is Reservoir Hole. The Keyholder is of course chairman of MCR who could hardly go against his own advice. St Cuthberts is officially closed as that is controlled by the BEC who are also closely linked to MCR.

 

[tony from suffolk]

My regular haunt in the Lake District, to which I'm currently denied (for good reason), has been inundated with the moronic mob. Leaving their cars strewn along narrow lanes, dumping sh*t & rubbish in the beauty spots, abusing anyone who dares to confront them. A survey conducted amongst these "people" discovered that 68% of them hadn't visited the Lake District before. We can only hope they didn't like it, what with the piles of cr*p & all, and never come again.

Personally, I think evisceration of the culprits, their glistening internal organs spread on the fields to be ripped apart and consumed by crows, is the best solution. This might seem a bit harsh, but at least it'll make them think twice before littering again.

 

[Badlad]

I went caving in the Dales this week.  It was great to get out.  I have, of course, considered the advice of government, the local authority, the landowner, rescue services, the CNCC, local community feelings and my own peers.

I haven't joined any 'Black lives Matter' protests although I am very sympathetic to the cause, nor been to the beach, nor any parks, nor watery beauty spots. 

I have been to work many times and although strict social distance measures apply in the work place and at service stations on route I'd still say I'd be more at risk there than on any caving trip.

 

[mikem]

Most cavers don't currently have access to any Mendip keys, effectively closing them, even if not officially.

There was an announcement at initial relaxation of lockdown that swildons & Eastwater had been closed by landowners, but that may have been the rumour mill, or the Mains may have changed their minds (mentioned at bottom of page 1 of this thread).

On condensation in photographs, most of that is coming off wet clothing / body, not breath.

 

[PeteHall]

For clubs without a hut to keep their keys in, keys are held by members, so perfectly accessible 

Regarding Swildon's, it was stated earlier that it was closed at the landownersr equest. That now appears to be a false assertion.
Confirmation from the CSCC C&A officer would be very helpful. I will email him now and report back unless he can make a public statement (which would obviously be better)

 

[pwhole]

So given the R rate is currently stalling and actually reversing in many parts of the country (I believe that the Dales may qualify as northwest and that the Mendips may qualify as southwest), would a 'rescue waiver' be an acceptable compromise to this clearly dividing situation? If most of us aren't going caving merely to reduce the theoretical rick to rescuers, and that 'accepting the risks' seems to be the current slogan going around (three-word slogans are so popular these days), surely completing a waiver (similar to that for Peak Cavern) before a trip that one is happy not to be rescued (if it proves safer to all concerned), would be acceptable?

I'll happily draft the wording, and completed waivers could be posted in a special thread here. If we're lucky, we could even make an updated version of Ace in the Hole while the rescue isn't happening, and screen it at some long-in-the-future Hidden Earth video salon.

Hey, it's Saturday - I'm just kidding!  Let's just compromise and say that caving is an eye-test now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0Gsv5p5GdY

 

[mikem]

Surely it's much easier to just not leave a callout.

Nobody knows what the R rate is actually doing, as they don't have complete data to base it on - they are making an educated guess (which is better than nothing), but we will only know for sure in hindsight...

Pete - the cave could easier have been shut 2 weeks ago & reopened since, so stop making assumptions before you get the facts.

 

[Laurie]

Just in case some of you think it's all a big waste of time I spent four weeks on oxygen in one hospital while my wife lay dying in another.
We both individually contracted it before the lockdown when there were very few cases.
It CAN happen to you!

 

[tony from suffolk]

A "Like" probably wasn't the right response Laurie, but your warning's worth emphasising. I hear too many people saying they can't see why they should abide by social distancing and keeping out of other's houses.

 

[Pitlamp]

That's right Tony; it's not gone away and is just as serious.

 

[mikem]

Would be easier to control if the risk was the same for everybody, but it isn't (which is good for some)

 

[pwhole]

Surely it's much easier to just not leave a callout.

No responsible caving authority/group could issue that proposal as guidance though. Quite the opposite advice is issued generally, so why the change now? If people do go caving alone and don't tell anyone at all, then they will die if they get stuck. I would bet good money that nearly everyone who goes caving tells someone where they are. And that someone will definitely phone for rescue if they don't return, even if the caver 'appeared not to want it'. And the rescue team will definitely turn out under those circumstances. So this would just formalise matters and reduce the onerous guilt on the ones in the rescue team who didn't want to 'accept the risks' - in fact let's call it a DNR form!

I've just come back from a walk to see hundreds of students heading for town, obviously for a George Floyd protest, and this is happening all over the country. Whilst I totally sympathise with the cause, the head of the Police Federation was on the news this morning pleading with folks not to do it, as it's forcing the police to break their own guidelines on social distancing to manage the protests. If Universities end up delaying their re-opening because half their students are infected...

Now where's that banjo...?

 

[PeteHall]

It certainly hasn't gone away and is still just as dangerous. The question in my mind is if going caving is likely to expose you, or others to any more risk than for example going to the supermarket. I believe that the answer is no.

Judging by the responses to this poll, 97% of forum users are advocating social distancing.

 

[Ali M]

Just in case some of you think it's all a big waste of time I spent four weeks on oxygen in one hospital while my wife lay dying in another.
We both individually contracted it before the lockdown when there were very few cases.
It CAN happen to you!

So sorry Laurie - my thoughts are with you.