Kong Banana Descender

[pwhole]

Moderator comment: posts split from thread on painting Petzl Simple: https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?threads/spray-painting-a-descender.34240/

The main point of failure on my Banana is the safety catch, which no longer stays fully closed owing to a cheap rivet fixing. A shame, as I love it with the custom stainless bobbins I got, but it's just getting a bit too dangerous to use now. I can't say I fancy a Simple, as it uses ally bobbins

 

[porgzilla]

The main point of failure on my Banana is the safety catch, which no longer stays fully closed owing to a cheap rivet fixing. A shame, as I love it with the custom stainless bobbins I got, but it's just getting a bit too dangerous to use now. I can't say I fancy a Simple, as it uses ally bobbins

How about a mini bolt and screw, with a counter screw to hold it on?

Shame they don't make wm anymore

 

[pwhole]

I guess I could try that, though I fear the tiny leaf spring hidden inside is really the problem, as its default position is 'mostly open'.

I got a lightly-used BMS Micro Rack a while ago, but unfortunately it turned out to be the long model, which is way too much for Peak District caving. I am thinking of getting a short one but the import duties may make it poor value.

 

[porgzilla]

I guess I could try that, though I fear the tiny leaf spring hidden inside is really the problem, as its default position is 'mostly open'.

I got a lightly-used BMS Micro Rack a while ago, but unfortunately it turned out to be the long model, which is way too much for Peak District caving. I am thinking of getting a short one but the import duties may make it poor value.

View attachment 25472

That's very interesting. I noticed this on mine too but wasn't sure if it was always slightly ajar. I was going to wait to see if it developed but I guess this confirms it would have been progressive.

You know, due to a previous experience with a different Kong descender being really poor, and now you showing this, I'm inclined to give their products a miss going forwards.

Ive been using a club Simple in the meantime and they are nice to use, and I can confirm a munter works well enough (don't know about long pitches)

How come you don't just use a Simple?
Is it just because of the wear?

 

[Cantclimbtom]

... I can confirm a munter works well enough...

Note to self: never let porgzilla near any of my ropes

 

[Mark Wright]

Ive been using a club Simple in the meantime and they are nice to use, and I can confirm a munter works well enough (don't know about long pitches)

I'm with Cantclimbtom. I would have thought a Munter hitch would be the worst possible way of introducing additional friction for your descender.

The Munter hitch will simply twist the rope to death and prematurely ruin it. Whilst you might get away with it on a straight pitch with no re-belays, if the pitch did have re-belays in it, there could be so much twisting that it prevents you from passing it.

 

[Maisie Syntax]

You know, due to a previous experience with a different Kong descender being really poor, and now you showing this, I'm inclined to give their products a miss going downwards.

There - fixed it for you

 

[pwhole]

How come you don't just use a Simple?
Is it just because of the wear?

Basically, yes - if I could get stainless bobbins for them like the Banana, I'd buy one tomorrow.

 

[porgzilla]

I'm with Cantclimbtom. I would have thought a Munter hitch would be the worst possible way of introducing additional friction for your descender.

The Munter hitch will simply twist the rope to death and prematurely ruin it. Whilst you might get away with it on a straight pitch with no re-belays, if the pitch did have re-belays in it, there could be so much twisting that it prevents you from passing it.

I should probably introduce some context. My Kong Banana is busted so I don't have a descender right now. (I have an old Stop but I can't stand the thing)

I have tried a munter on a short pitch and discovered that it twists the rope something rotten, making rigging a bit of a pain.

I also used a munter as an experiment in how little gear you could get away with in a cave, ie sling, crab, tibloc etc....

Learning to use a munter has been valuable to me and may prove invaluable in the future now that I know its practicalities.

Honestly, I was more concerned about damaging my carabineer than damage to the rope
But yeah, I'll shelve munter and save for when needed

 

[AR]

I guess I could try that, though I fear the tiny leaf spring hidden inside is really the problem, as its default position is 'mostly open'.

Phil - I'll take a look at my Banana and see if I can see what the internal securing is like for the spring, I can potentially re-rivet yours at some point if I think it's doable?

 

[wellyjen]

A couple of photos of my relatively unworn Bananna. There is a small divot in the catch that locates one end of the coil spring. I don't know, but there is probably be a corresponding feature on the aluminium plate to locate the other end. If the gate is opening too far, as per PWhole's example, I'd suspect wear of the rivet hole in either the gate, or aluminium plate, or distortion of the gate. Not sure these can be easily fixed.

 

[AR]

I guess I could try that, though I fear the tiny leaf spring hidden inside is really the problem, as its default position is 'mostly open'.

I got a lightly-used BMS Micro Rack a while ago, but unfortunately it turned out to be the long model, which is way too much for Peak District caving. I am thinking of getting a short one but the import duties may make it poor value.

View attachment 25472

Dug mine out and had a look and I agree the spring isn't the problem, but as suggested above, wear on the plate around the rivet hole. The spring pushes the catch back into place and it's stopped by the back of the catch (above the rivet) contacting the plate, but comparing the photo with mine I think the rivet is about 2mm nearer the edge than on mine and Jen's less-worn examples. That's giving a lot more play before the catch comes to rest, hence it now allowing enough space for the krab to slip out.

Fixable? I think so, but it'll need the rivet drilling out and a bush putting into the main plate before re-riveting with another brass rivet, not a nut and bolt as they'd potentially catch on the rope and could result in a hang-up or rope damage.

 

[oliverdattilo]

Basically, yes - if I could get stainless bobbins for them like the Banana, I'd buy one tomorrow.

These are sold, at least state side.
Underground Manufacturing 1-Hole SS Simple Replacement Spool

 

[AR]

Fixable? I think so, but it'll need the rivet drilling out and a bush putting into the main plate before re-riveting with another brass rivet, not a nut and bolt as they'd potentially catch on the rope and could result in a hang-up or rope damage.

Met up with Phil yesterday and got the bad banana off him. Today, I drilled the rivet out and as expected, the hole in the plate has become enlarged and there's also a bit of wear on the back allowing the catch to come back a lot further than it should. However, there was also corrosion around the hole. Not serious, I'd estimate less than a quarter of the thickness has gone after wirebrushing to clean metal.

I've used epoxy putty to build it back up, and I'll re-rivet with a slightly thicker bit of brass rod, after which it should be good for a few more years yet. Will post photos of the process on this thread in case anyone else needs to do this in future.