AlexR
Active member
My caving has changed from predominantly one day trips hanging off rope, stooping and crawling through foul places, to lugging a metric ton of kit through an "underground mountaineering" cave for 1-1.5 days before the real fun starts.
None of the tackle sacks I own were particularly suitable for this. For a bit I got away with putting all the heavy items into my 35L bag with my team mates taking more voluminous, less heavy stuff. This was bad because a) it meant I was carrying 20kg without a hip belt, and b) once the cave gets smaller I couldn't convince others my heavier weight bag was a fair exchange for them having to brutalise a larger bag through constrictions.
MTDE 60L on left, self made 35L Dyneema bag on right
I've looked at, and tested where available, the AV, Landjoff, Petzl and MTDE bags.
The below might be useful to anyone looking to buy an exped size bag - my original bag is ~35L, which covers food for 5 days, bolt climbing kit, rudimentary 1st aid/ shelter and camp clothing, but reaches its limit when I have to take a sleeping bag or additional rope as well. So I was looking for something in the region of 50-60L. I don't think a bag like this has any use in UK caving, hence why I never used to own one. Scandalously I haven't considered Warmbac as they're difficult to come by on the continent and at any rate are very heavy. That also makes them the longest-lasting and arguably best-built tackle bags.
Petzl Transport 60:
I'm a bit put off by recent quality issues and general direction Petzl is taking. In line with this, the bag seems more suitable for rope access and less so for dragging it through a cave. But they are very comfortable.
Landjoff Speleo 56:
A good bag in principle, unfortunately it's much closer to 40L than 56L in reality. So I'd see this as an excellent alternative to the Petzl Transport 45L.
AV Comfort 60:
The volume on this is about right, and it feels like a bag actually made for caving. At nearly 2kg empty weight it's quite chunky, which may translate to a longer life span. In my experience the design of the AV bag bottoms are prone to wearing out quite quickly; in rifts I often like to clip a bag to my belt and drag it through upright rather than carry it over one shoulder. That puts a lot of wear on the bottom corner. Seems to be a popular bag with divers.
MTDE Sherpa 60:
The bag I settled on, so inherently the one I can say the most about. It is a lot lighter than the AV (about 600g); the one used by Axel in the image above has seen a lot of action and is still going, so I wasn't too concerned about longevity. I've carried 20kg (weighed, not guessed) for 2 days in a cave and would say it's as comfortable as 20kg will ever be.
One of the reasons I bought it was the very large top handle, this has proven extremely useful when hoiking the bag through constrictions. The oval shape of these bags means orientation through smaller bits of cave is quite important; at least the shape is comparable to your body so you know how you'll want to orientate it. For this I've found the handle on the MTDE best for twisting the bag into the ideal position without too much fuss - I don't know if it's obvious what I mean by that; if you have a handle where both ends are fixed to the bag close together it's difficult to exert torque, a longer, stiff handle makes it easier.
The material given on the website is PVC, but I think the current interation is actually PU, which would be a good thing. All seams are thermally welded, not stitched. I have added a sternum strap, which I'd recommend for extended carrying.
Annoyingly, none of the above bags have a gear loop at the front to give a plumb hang, when you're on a rope they're all lopsided. This can be an issue even in constricted/ awkward horizontal passages but is normally useful (the bag orientates itself so you're not dragging the back facing side through the slop), it is however absolutely shit when on a rope in rifts - the bag will forever cam itself across the passage. I'm planning to sewing a loop onto the front but haven't gotten round to it yet. Then again, taking this kind of bag through constricted cave will have you seriously question your life choices.
Overall I recommend using a smaller tackle sack and getting others to carry your stuff
I have purposefully omitted prices as they're all within £30 or so of each other and I really wouldn't make my choice based on that. Let's put it this way, I never found myself thinking "if only I'd saved those £20 on xyz" down a cave, but I have had moments of "why was I such a bloody cheapskate".
Hope this proves helpful to someone at some point, probably even more so if people add their own experiences.
None of the tackle sacks I own were particularly suitable for this. For a bit I got away with putting all the heavy items into my 35L bag with my team mates taking more voluminous, less heavy stuff. This was bad because a) it meant I was carrying 20kg without a hip belt, and b) once the cave gets smaller I couldn't convince others my heavier weight bag was a fair exchange for them having to brutalise a larger bag through constrictions.
MTDE 60L on left, self made 35L Dyneema bag on right
I've looked at, and tested where available, the AV, Landjoff, Petzl and MTDE bags.
The below might be useful to anyone looking to buy an exped size bag - my original bag is ~35L, which covers food for 5 days, bolt climbing kit, rudimentary 1st aid/ shelter and camp clothing, but reaches its limit when I have to take a sleeping bag or additional rope as well. So I was looking for something in the region of 50-60L. I don't think a bag like this has any use in UK caving, hence why I never used to own one. Scandalously I haven't considered Warmbac as they're difficult to come by on the continent and at any rate are very heavy. That also makes them the longest-lasting and arguably best-built tackle bags.
Petzl Transport 60:
I'm a bit put off by recent quality issues and general direction Petzl is taking. In line with this, the bag seems more suitable for rope access and less so for dragging it through a cave. But they are very comfortable.
Landjoff Speleo 56:
A good bag in principle, unfortunately it's much closer to 40L than 56L in reality. So I'd see this as an excellent alternative to the Petzl Transport 45L.
AV Comfort 60:
The volume on this is about right, and it feels like a bag actually made for caving. At nearly 2kg empty weight it's quite chunky, which may translate to a longer life span. In my experience the design of the AV bag bottoms are prone to wearing out quite quickly; in rifts I often like to clip a bag to my belt and drag it through upright rather than carry it over one shoulder. That puts a lot of wear on the bottom corner. Seems to be a popular bag with divers.
MTDE Sherpa 60:
The bag I settled on, so inherently the one I can say the most about. It is a lot lighter than the AV (about 600g); the one used by Axel in the image above has seen a lot of action and is still going, so I wasn't too concerned about longevity. I've carried 20kg (weighed, not guessed) for 2 days in a cave and would say it's as comfortable as 20kg will ever be.
One of the reasons I bought it was the very large top handle, this has proven extremely useful when hoiking the bag through constrictions. The oval shape of these bags means orientation through smaller bits of cave is quite important; at least the shape is comparable to your body so you know how you'll want to orientate it. For this I've found the handle on the MTDE best for twisting the bag into the ideal position without too much fuss - I don't know if it's obvious what I mean by that; if you have a handle where both ends are fixed to the bag close together it's difficult to exert torque, a longer, stiff handle makes it easier.
The material given on the website is PVC, but I think the current interation is actually PU, which would be a good thing. All seams are thermally welded, not stitched. I have added a sternum strap, which I'd recommend for extended carrying.
Annoyingly, none of the above bags have a gear loop at the front to give a plumb hang, when you're on a rope they're all lopsided. This can be an issue even in constricted/ awkward horizontal passages but is normally useful (the bag orientates itself so you're not dragging the back facing side through the slop), it is however absolutely shit when on a rope in rifts - the bag will forever cam itself across the passage. I'm planning to sewing a loop onto the front but haven't gotten round to it yet. Then again, taking this kind of bag through constricted cave will have you seriously question your life choices.
Overall I recommend using a smaller tackle sack and getting others to carry your stuff
I have purposefully omitted prices as they're all within £30 or so of each other and I really wouldn't make my choice based on that. Let's put it this way, I never found myself thinking "if only I'd saved those £20 on xyz" down a cave, but I have had moments of "why was I such a bloody cheapskate".
Hope this proves helpful to someone at some point, probably even more so if people add their own experiences.
