looking for a guide for Ease Gill trip!

[Space Doubt Caver]

Hey All,

Looking for a guide for a paid trip into Ease Gill in April.
Please Direct Message me on here me

Thank You
SDC

 

[andrewmcleod]

I don't *think* this is allowed under the access agreement? (but this is based off second-hand Chinese whispers not any robust evidence).

In any event, this seems probably unnecessary for any keen caver?

 

[Benfool]

I don't *think* this is allowed under the access agreement? (but this is based off second-hand Chinese whispers not any robust evidence).

In any event, this seems probably unnecessary for any keen caver?

Yep, access agreement doesn't include commercial trips. It may be possible to negotiate with the estate.

B

 

[TLH]

Hey All,

Looking for a guide for a paid trip into Ease Gill in April.
Please Direct Message me on here me

Thank You
SDC

Is this for the club weekend in a fortnight that you're arranging?

If so, i'm not sure where money comes into this apart from your hut fees. I thought you said you had friends in the RRCPC that were going to guide you?

If you're confident to do so, there are some great guides and descriptions on CNCC website. I've always thought the NFTFH black book description to be the best, although we usually go backwards, so added fun of reversing all instruction!

Tom

 

[langcliffe]

The routes described on the Braemoor web site were intended "for the guidance of experienced cavers who may not be familiar with the better routes through the more complex systems in the Yorkshire Dales". The site includes 16 routines in Ease Gill Caverns, one in BPOW and one in Aygill. I have been told that people have found them as useful, but I am unable to give you an objective opinion.

 

[Space Doubt Caver]

Is this for the club weekend in a fortnight that you're arranging?

If so, i'm not sure where money comes into this apart from your hut fees. I thought you said you had friends in the RRCPC that were going to guide you?

If you're confident to do so, there are some great guides and descriptions on CNCC website. I've always thought the NFTFH black book description to be the best, although we usually go backwards, so added fun of reversing all instruction!

Tom

circumstances in life change, and some people will not be available, thats life... and when this happens it's better to make arrangements for that,

Last time, i was in ease gill was 14 years ago, now i'd rather ask, if someone who knows the route, better than I, can assist, for some form of financial donation, or beer tokens as we call it.

It is not uncommon to ask if a local can join you in such a big system, is it now suddenly wrong to reach out to the community?
No, of course not, if i was to visit Parys mountain a guide is required and also with other locations across the UK.

Ease gill is not one of those that require a guide, but it is a place where you do not want to get lost, so its sensible to ask the community for some guidance

 

[hannahb]

circumstances in life change, and some people will not be available, thats life... and when this happens it's better to make arrangements for that,

Last time, i was in ease gill was 14 years ago, now i'd rather ask, if someone who knows the route, better than I, can assist, for some form of financial donation, or beer tokens as we call it.

It is not uncommon to ask if a local can join you in such a big system, is it now suddenly wrong to reach out to the community?
No, of course not, if i was to visit Parys mountain a guide is required and also with other locations across the UK.

Ease gill is not one of those that require a guide, but it is a place where you do not want to get lost, so its sensible to ask the community for some guidance

It is relatively unusual to ask for a guide in Ease Gill.

Descriptions and surveys are available, as others have said.

That's not to say having a guide is not a good idea if you would like one, and plenty of people do come unstuck in the navigation or take longer than they expect.

I think it's the "beer tokens" bit which could be problematic. Perhaps better for it just to be a favour or friendly gesture, or the "guide" just having a nice caving trip with your group.

 

[TLH]

circumstances in life change, and some people will not be available, thats life... and when this happens it's better to make arrangements for that,

Last time, i was in ease gill was 14 years ago, now i'd rather ask, if someone who knows the route, better than I, can assist, for some form of financial donation, or beer tokens as we call it.

It is not uncommon to ask if a local can join you in such a big system, is it now suddenly wrong to reach out to the community?
No, of course not, if i was to visit Parys mountain a guide is required and also with other locations across the UK.

Ease gill is not one of those that require a guide, but it is a place where you do not want to get lost, so its sensible to ask the community for some guidance

You didn't make that clear. It sounded like you were asking for a leader for a paid trip (as in a group that were paying, not the group paying a leader). That's all I meant.

It's good that you're asking for a leader, I was just confused as I thought you'd sorted one.

No mallice in my comment.

 

[Space Doubt Caver]

It is relatively unusual to ask for a guide in Ease Gill.

Descriptions and surveys are available, as others have said.

That's not to say having a guide is not a good idea if you would like one, and plenty of people do come unstuck in the navigation or take longer than they expect.

I think it's the "beer tokens" bit which could be problematic. Perhaps better for it just to be a favour or friendly gesture, or the "guide" just having a nice caving trip with your group.

Thank you

 

[Space Doubt Caver]

You didn't make that clear. It sounded like you were asking for a leader for a paid trip (as in a group that were paying, not the group paying a leader). That's all I meant.

It's good that you're asking for a leader, I was just confused as I thought you'd sorted one.

No mallice in my comment.

All good, yeah i should have explained better, i do apologise

 

[Lankyman]

Last time, i was in ease gill was 14 years ago, now i'd rather ask, if someone who knows the route, better than I

An interesting venture. A trip down there was probably my last 'proper' caving trip (as opposed to a bimble into a little cave with a head torch during a walk). I used to know the standard routes pretty well such as the traverse from Lancaster Hole to Wretched Rabbit and the High Level route. I've often wondered if I could remember my way around still or if it would be lost to memory (and me getting lost)? It's about 20 years ago now.

 

[Space Doubt Caver]

An interesting venture. A trip down there was probably my last 'proper' caving trip (as opposed to a bimble into a little cave with a head torch during a walk). I used to know the standard routes pretty well such as the traverse from Lancaster Hole to Wretched Rabbit and the High Level route. I've often wondered if I could remember my way around still or if it would be lost to memory (and me getting lost)? It's about 20 years ago now.

Thats kinda how i see it, i have a good idea of the route but after 14 years, i come to a point where i'd rather admit i need some help.

Ease Gill caves are some of the cleanest caves i've ever been in, all the rigging bolts are well placed and very secure, entrances are maintained and inspected by the CNCC & the RRCPC, and it's just a great experience all round.

The booking process is also so easy,

Last time i was in Ease Gill was with Martin Green from the RRCPC, and i got this pic, was a long time ago

 

[mrodoc]

FFS take a copy of the survey. Why do we have commercialize everything? I have always had to find my own way around - it is half the fun.

 

[mikem]

Everyone (outside of adventure sports) is encouraging risk aversion, because you'll be less of a threat to the status quo

 

[Samouse1]

To be fair, given a number of recent callouts to that end of the system, someone not being 100% confident and deciding to get help with route finding isn't something to deride. Let them make their own choices on this, and if they want to "pay" someone (I find almost all cavers accept payment in the form of a hot meal and a few pints) to make sure they have a successful trip and not another call out, that's their right!

 

[mikem]

It is indeed, unfortunately paid trip is synonymous with commercial caving, which is never to be encouraged

 

[JoshW]

commercial caving, which is never to be encouraged

This is like saying beetlejuice three times..

Suddenly the cap’n is gonna turn up

 

[mrodoc]

Everyone (outside of adventure sports) is encouraging risk aversion, because you'll be less of a threat to the status quo

True and it just increases the number of idiotic things that happen nowadays where people do things that are clearly stupid but haven't been specifically warned not to instead of using their common sense.

 

[JoshW]

True and it just increases the number of idiotic things that happen nowadays where people do things that are clearly stupid but haven't been specifically warned not to instead of using their common sense.

Well this sounds like total bollocks? Got any evidence for it?

 

[Badlad]

Can I just revert to SDCs original request?

I got what she was asking, about looking for a guide, although perhaps she wasn't quite as clear as she might have been. I hope you get sorted.

Regarding the comments about trips of a commercial nature as detailed in the access arrangement reproduced above. It was I who made that arrangement with the Whelprigg estate which includes the caves of Casterton Fell (and with the Leck and Ingleborough estates for that matter). One of the major issues which concerned the estates was the thought of anyone making any money from activities on their land. This was highlighted particularly because at the time there were a couple of individuals marketing stag/hen weekends which could include caving trips into Easegill caves. The estates were not having it, quite rightly. I doubted many cavers would want to meet a stag party down Lancaster Hole either.

That is the sort of level of commercial caving we want to avoid. I never imagined it might apply to someone being paid beer tokens to help safely guide a recreational caving group around a cave they are not familiar with. I don't think that a visiting club paying a local instructor to help show them around safely would really cause a stir either. It is meant to guard against blatant money making activity. I hope everyone can appreciate the difference.
Cheers
Tim
Ex CNCC Access Officer