Need a big (90 litre) rucsack for caving?

[Pitlamp]

I get emails from Military Mart, a big ex-WD supplier. I just noticed they have taken delivery of a load of these, which look pretty good for cavers with heavy and or bulky loads:

Genuine Finnish Army External Frame Rucksack – 90L Olive

Buy the Genuine Finnish Army 90L Framed Rucksack at Military Mart. Rubberised waterproof fabric, steel external frame, and leather straps. The ultimate heavy-duty bushcraft pack.

www.militarymart.co.uk

I've not seen the rucsacks in the flesh, so this isn't necessarily a recommendation. They do mail order of course and if you want to go look, the company is at Burscough near Ormskirk (Lancashire).

However, I can certainly recommend the company itself. I've bought stuff from them from time to time. I'm an awkward size when it comes to clothing and on more than one occasion they've found someone who has my dimensions to try an item on and advise. Stuff I've bought has always been OK (and as described).

I reckon to have reasonable expertise when it comes to big rucsacks (as I regularly carry silly heavy loads of diving gear). If I didn't have a couple of massive rucsacks in stock already I'd definitely have bought one of these.

Maybe if someone buys one, or goes for a look, they could update us on here?

 

[topcat]

Im.close to the Russian border just now and have seen a few of these sacks on the backs of Finnish soldiers, but as they were also heavily armed I thought it best not to pick and like at their kit )

 

[spelfish]

I don't know if the Finnish Army have the same approach to procurement as the UK does. If so, the prototype will have been wonderful but will then have had to compete with (at least) three alternatives. It will then have to be made affordable. After being re-engineered as cheaply as possible (compatible with the initial specification) their MOD will choose the cheapest option. The implication is, you'll be wearing the third best boots, the third best jacket, hopefully not the third best tank. Actually, if you're looking at really high value bits of kit (tanks, ships, planes) there is probably more focus on quality than price (and even more focus on making a flawed design work, no matter how expensively).
Obvious example, British military boots in the mid 80s. I tried one of the prototypes (excellent, really comfortable, horribly expensive) and was then issued with the official version (at best, OK: realistically, pretty crap). There's a reason that serious infantry buy their own boots..
Therefore, don't buy a British military thing if you're looking for quality. The Finns may have a more enlightened approach to procurement, but definitely try before you buy.
There is an exception. If the UK has to deploy urgently somewhere that demands really upmarket kit, it has to buy what's available and can't go through the bureaucratic processes - thus, when we went to Bosnia, we were issued with really good warm boots that lasted me for many, many years...

 

[Cantclimbtom]

If you look on fleabay you can get Berghaus (Cyclops or Vulcan) rucksacks "Bergans" often in the £25-£60 range. The elastic goes baggy in the lid but that's easily repairable. The odd snapped plastic buckle is easily repairable too.
They're great, some of the best kit Berghaus made.

Mine from the mid 90s is still going, a few crampon holes blocked up with super glue and the odd buckle and strap repair, but those things were built to last.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

high value bits of kit (tanks, ships, planes) there is probably more focus on quality than price

Ahem, Ajax..............

 

[spelfish]

That's why I put in the bit about flawed designs!

 

[Cantclimbtom]

A lot of kit is junk, but a small proportion is not - and gets a reputation as being brilliant.

The rucksack in the original post is one example, so is the Berghaus alternative I mentioned (which I think was never officially issued, just everyone bought one)

 

[Occasional Borderer]

I don't know if the Finnish Army have the same approach to procurement as the UK does. If so, the prototype will have been wonderful but will then have had to compete with (at least) three alternatives. It will then have to be made affordable. After being re-engineered as cheaply as possible (compatible with the initial specification) their MOD will choose the cheapest option. The implication is, you'll be wearing the third best boots, the third best jacket, hopefully not the third best tank. Actually, if you're looking at really high value bits of kit (tanks, ships, planes) there is probably more focus on quality than price (and even more focus on making a flawed design work, no matter how expensively).
Obvious example, British military boots in the mid 80s. I tried one of the prototypes (excellent, really comfortable, horribly expensive) and was then issued with the official version (at best, OK: realistically, pretty crap). There's a reason that serious infantry buy their own boots..
Therefore, don't buy a British military thing if you're looking for quality. The Finns may have a more enlightened approach to procurement, but definitely try before you buy.
There is an exception. If the UK has to deploy urgently somewhere that demands really upmarket kit, it has to buy what's available and can't go through the bureaucratic processes - thus, when we went to Bosnia, we were issued with really good warm boots that lasted me for many, many years...

May be third best option, but if it's a quarter of the price of the third best consumer item, why complain?

 

[spelfish]

True, but if it's really uncomfortable when fully laden and it's badly balanced (again, true of some army issue rucksacks in my youth) you might think it a false economy. I'm not suggesting this will be true of the Finnish rucksack, merely pointing out the possibility.

 

[amw]

I use a Tatonka Lastenkraxe Outdoor Pack Frame. I strap everything to that. Works well with dive cylinders.

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