New DistoX in the waterproof Disto DXT

kdxn

kdxn

New member
I too have looked at other options.

For example, the D8 has an internal daughter card with the tilt sensor on it. The suggestion of changing this daughter card to provide a combined mag/tilt capability was put to the Leica Product Manager in Switzerland. I am an ex-Leica employee so was not surprised that this suggestion was politely declined, the market is too small although I did point out that a direction capability, even if rough, would help quality control for construction.

China makes a Laser Rangefinder, minimum 100piece order about $100ea. Design appears to be similar to the Leica A3 but how long will this be produced for, will the design/code change ?

There are OEM laser rangefinder modules available but these are really expensive.

One option that could be looked at is to determine the range measurement output at board level from a 'standard' off the shelf laser range finder, Bosch/Leica/etc. For example, the DistoX reads the info via  testpads on the A3 for the display interface and then overdrives the signals to control the display.
Could upgrade the SAP or original DistoX upgrade board to include an interface to the laser range finder and provide a non-magnetic power pack - rechargeable Li-Poly pack that can power everything ? Rip the guts from the laser range finder and encase everything in a sealed polycarbonate case with clear windows, perhaps an OtterBox or similiar.

Needs someone with the time and the skills.......
 
TheBitterEnd

TheBitterEnd

Well-known member
Funny you should mention it but I bought myself a Bosch Plr 25 Laser Distance Measure for Christmas with, amongst other things, a view to seeing if it could be modded for caving. There is a project up on avrfreaks where a guy has done a major hack on a similar Bosch distance measure, but he ends up with only 8m range - fine for his requirements but I don't want to loose the range or hack the device to that extent.

I've had it apart (which is a bit of a faff) and decoding the LCD inputs is an option but for now I was investigating just reading the LCD via some kind of contact sensor/camera. This has the big advantage of not being tied to any particular distance measure. A full stack, as I see it, has a Laser range finder, one of these for heading/clino, something like an Arduino to integrate these and bluetooth it back to an Android Tablet.

That said don't hold your breath, I'm happy to contribute the little I know to anyone else's efforts around this.
 
kdxn

kdxn

New member
It would be good if the DistoX board was made available as an open source project that could then have other Laser Rangefinder interfaces added to it and alternative tilt/mag/gyro options. DistoX is Beat Heeb's development so very much up to him. Tapping into the display lines of the rangefinder to get the range and hi-jacking them to display range/bearing/tilt is a neat solution keeping component count(and cost) down but it does require a lot of work decoding custom displays and testpads.

The Razor 9DOF board link provided in the prior message plus an Arduino makes a more pricier option than the DistoX board but the Razor might provide measurement redundancy by using the gyro to measure turned angles between backsight and foresight to supplement mag directions and tilt obs.

Having said that the cost is high, using Robotic project boards (such as Arduino+Accessory) would make it easier for people to participate in an open source project and these boards are likely to be around for a long time in one form or another because of the large community of robotic users. The issues with the current DistoX custom PCB is that one major component has gone end of life, the board is based on an old Disto and there are newer mag/tilt chip options available that require a redesign.

An Open Source project that gives the full laser range would be useful.
 
footleg

footleg

New member
Are there existing commercial laser range devices with built in bluetooth? If so then one of these could be combined with a caver made compass/clino unit. When the laser measure broadcasts a measurement by bluetooth, the compass/clino unit could pick up that data and record the compass and clino at that point, then transmit the combined data to a PDA/tablet. It would of course depend on the laser measure broadcasting the measurement in real time.  But it would solve all the tricky integration problems.
 
graham

graham

New member
footleg said:
Are there existing commercial laser range devices with built in bluetooth? If so then one of these could be combined with a caver made compass/clino unit. When the laser measure broadcasts a measurement by bluetooth, the compass/clino unit could pick up that data and record the compass and clino at that point, then transmit the combined data to a PDA/tablet. It would of course depend on the laser measure broadcasting the measurement in real time.  But it would solve all the tricky integration problems.
Click to expand...

How would define the survey point that these two different instruments are using?
 
SamT

SamT

Moderator
Whist there is an issue with finding a suitable alternative to the A2 and DistoX combo - at the heart of this thread is the need for it to be CAVE(R) PROOF, its no use looking around at fancy bits of expensive  kit that are just going to get trashed underground after not much use due to either moisture or mud ingress.

- hence the DTX being looked at. Its a real shame that it looks like it will not be possible to produce a board that will integrate with it  :cry:
 
S

sluka

New member
kdxn said:
China makes a Laser Rangefinder, minimum 100piece order about $100ea. Design appears to be similar to the Leica A3 but how long will this be produced for, will the design/code change ?
Click to expand...

Beat tested it. It is copy of A3, but with different electric connection, so not possible to use it for Disto X.

He is testing the ZnCl primary cells with very low magnetism with Disto DXT now.
 
footleg

footleg

New member
graham said:
How would define the survey point that these two different instruments are using?
Click to expand...

I meant that the two instruments would be built into the same case. Or just gaffa taped together into one unit. So you would just use it like a slightly chunkier DistoX.
 
kdxn

kdxn

New member
I previously posted a link somewhere in this forum about the new Laser Technology all-in-one  laser/tilt/compass/BT device but not caver proof, is expensive, has an invisible beam and has a very significant issue of a cone type beam which can be problematic in caving as the measurement point can be anywhere across the cone beam width depending upon the reflectivity. The Disto's have a nice tight visible laser beam so you can usually see what you are measuring albeit at a smaller range but most caves are small range anyway.

The Disto DXT has been much more difficult to integrate than the Disto A3. The A3 had testpads that could be soldered to intercept the display signals and then overdrive them. Even so, it was a lot of work by Beat to interpret the display commands to work out how SPI LCD segment commands translated into a measured range. The DXT does not have the A3 style testpads and any interception has to be done via the multi-pin ribbon cable connector which adds cost and complexity to any updated DistoX board suitable for the DXT. Couple this difficulty with a new display to be interpreted, a smaller area for the board to be installed, new mag and tilt sensors to be integrated and making sure the whole remains magnetically stable over time and you can appreciate that it is not an easy task.

Whilst it would be great to see a DistoDXT based DistoX. It is proving to be difficult to do and it will not be waterproof. 

I am investigating the possibility of doing a limited production run of the original A3 based DistoX boards or an updated variant. Depends upon the grey market for some of the electronic parts or a re-design. I will post a new thread if it looks doable at a reasonable price to gauge interest as obviously I will have to stump up some serious money to do the boards.
 
SamT

SamT

Moderator
kdxn said:
I am investigating the possibility of doing a limited production run of the original A3 based DistoX boards or an updated variant. Depends upon the grey market for some of the electronic parts or a re-design. I will post a new thread if it looks doable at a reasonable price to gauge interest as obviously I will have to stump up some serious money to do the boards.
Click to expand...

I may be in the market for one if you do one.  :) ( so long as the cost does not become too prohibative of course)
 
kdxn

kdxn

New member
Good points.

Leica does the Disto3a Bluetooth but this has a list price of ?319+VAT.
Any attached compass/clino unit would have to be calibrated with respect to the Disto beam and very very securely attached.

Some cavers on the NSS forum are testing a DistoDXT based DistoX2 prototype(Beat Heeb's work) with an external battery to try and resolve the compass calibration drift issues. Although having an external battery kind of defeats the additional sealing of the DXT(?169+VAT).

I think the optimum route(price/performance) would be the cheaper D2 (?119+VAT) in a sealed housing with an updated DistoX board and LiPoly battery. I have opened up the D2 and the working bits are small.

I have made some progress finding obsolete parts for the original DistoX board. Whether I produce any DistoX boards will depend upon the DistoX2 development.

Any further work by me on this will have to wait a while. Expedition report needs doing...........
 
kdxn

kdxn

New member
I have identified sources of components and got a quote to make 100 of the original DistoX boards for the A3.

All being well, the selling price would be about ?160. (A3 not included !)

I have started a new thread on this subject and would like to know interest before locking down the parts and starting the build. Please post your interest at the new thread.

Thanks
 
kdxn

kdxn

New member
Heads up for people waiting for the DistoX2 to fit into the Disto DXT.

There has been some progress in USA using an external battery compartment.

However Leica have just launched two new Disto, the D210 and X310.
The updated Disto Family brochure has just the D210, X310, D3aBT, D5 and D8 which would imply that the D2, DXT and D3a will be no more. Some retailers are already discounting these three models.

The D210 has 80m range and list price of ?129 and seems to replace the D2.
The X310 has 80m range, 360 tilt, rugged IP65 case, list price of ?209 and seems to replace the DXT and D3a.

No-one has stock yet, some delivery issues. Hope to see them this Friday at an industry exhibition.
 
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