POLL about stuck ropes/problems on pull throughs

[flakey]

I’m interested in how ropes get stuck on pull throughs, and I thought it would be good to try and get some data about this. Hopefully there are enough people on the forum who’ve got a rope stuck on a pull through at some point in the past that the results of the poll can be statistically useful.

If you’ve been unlucky enough to get ropes stuck on multiple trips, please select all answers that apply.

If there are other ways people have got ropes stuck which are not listed in the poll options (I’ve probably not thought of everything), please comment with details — or comment anyway if you have a story or data about how problems happen on pull-throughs. Thanks!

Yes, this is related to the proposal for chains in Simpson’s, but please don’t comment about that. If you think this poll is a terrible idea then message me privately and don’t derail the thread. There are other threads for discussing the proposal for chains.

 

[langcliffe]

A common cause is an karabiner left in the stopper knot getting too closely involved in the anchor on pull-down.

 

[zzzzzzed]

I once got a rope stuck on the first pitch of Swinsto because someone tied a stopper knot in the end. I never do that if I can clearly see that the rope is on the floor. So I pulled through without noticing the knot. Fortunately we were able to easily climb back up and remove the knot.

Another time a badly positioned bolt meant that the pull down end was able to go over the 'up' half of the rope. So the harder you pulled, the more you trapped the rope that should have been going up (like a climbers belay device in 'guide mode'). This was solved easily by tieing one end to a suitably robust caver and prussicking up the other end.

 

[paul]

Our rope got stuck on Slit Pot many years ago before bolts were installed. It was around the boulder on the floor. After someone prusiked back up one side of the rope, while there remaining three acted as anchors on the other side, and freed the rope and abseiled back down, it was successfully retrieved on the second attempt. (selected 'other' in the poll)

 

[Mark Wright]

Not removing a rope end Stopper Knot was one of the most common issues when teaching this technique in rope access.

The person doing the pull through just needs to remember to untie it first. There's no reason not to use one for everyone descending the rope.

The only time i've ever got one stuck was half way down one of the entrances to the Diau a few years ago. Local cavers had bolted plastic Tupperware type material to the wall about 2m below the anchors to help prevent the rope chafing as it touched the rock surface. Unfortunately the edges of the plastic had started to curl over and our carabiner kept getting trapped behind it as we tried to pull it down. Because we were unsure what the problem was from below, Dave Cowley attached himself to the pull down end whilst I re-climbed the pitch to sort it out.

 

[JoshW]

Because we were unsure what the problem was from below, Dave Cowley attached himself to the pull down end whilst I re-climbed the pitch to sort it out.

Stupidly my head had never thought of this little solution to safeguard the ascent.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

I once ab'd in an underground quarry. There was a good anchor 1.5m back from the edge.

I fed a 60m dynamic rope through the anchor at halfway mark on rope (the drop needed about that much rope).

The rope made a 60 degree bend or so over the edge from anchor to drop vertically, the edge was not sharp.

I tied an alpine butterfly in the retrieve/dead side and clipped a locking krab on the alpine butterfly onto the abseil/live side.

This is ideal for times when there is a vertical drop with no edges or anything to snag, but NEVER again if there is an edge! This is a lesson learned!

When I went to retrieve it the above rope clipped to the butterfly krab pinned the retrieve rope down so it couldn't be pulled over the edge from below, it got stuck and couldn't be pulled either way even on jumars and bouncing. I had to climb back up to sort it out. At that point I didn't know what was the problem.

When I was about 5 or 10 meters up the rope the knot/krab un-stuck and shifted that 1.5 metres from edge to anchor, dropping me unexpectedly that and the dynamic stretch. That was sphincter loosening, but not knowing what on earth was going on up there made the next 20m of jumaring pretty anxious, wondering if I somehow I was ascending the wrong side of rope or what, and if I could be dumped to the floor at any moment.

Once up there I removed the knot and krab, ab'd down on an Italian (munter) using both sides of ropes and pulled it through. What I should've done in the first place. Lesson learned!

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Not removing a rope end Stopper Knot was one of the most common issues when teaching this technique in rope access.

I've retrieved a rope for other people when that'd happened to them. Apparently they started to pull it up saw the knot, tried to grab it but too late...the weight of rope meant it was rising up out of reach and disappeared out of sight.

It's one of those things that can happen if there's a lapse in concentration! It can happen to the best of us.

 

[LadyMud]

I wonder if particular types of ropes (construction, thickness, age, etc) have a tendency to misbehave in these situations?

 

[andrewmcleod]

I've retrieved a rope for other people when that'd happened to them. Apparently they started to pull it up saw the knot, tried to grab it but too late...the weight of rope meant it was rising up out of reach and disappeared out of sight.

It's one of those things that can happen if there's a lapse in concentration! It can happen to the best of us.

I tie the ends together, then it's not an issue...

 

[mikem]

But only works on pitches where you are taking all the rope out. The safest way for a larger group to abseil is to lower half the required rope down and keep the rest in the bag, clipped to the 2nd bolt. Unfortunately this doesn't allow you to test how easily it can be pulled through, unless the second to last person takes the bag down, although it does mean that you can set it up as a releasable abseil if you are worried about any novices.

On the original thread there was the question of whether CICs were leaving Y hangs in situ, but there is no need if it is removed after the group abseils, but before the instructor descends.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

About 35 years ago I was part of a small group doing Swinsto, after about half the pitches our rope was stuck fast. I was at a loss to work out what had happened until the last person to have descended explained that she thought it was dangerous having the rope just looped through the anchor, so she'd tied a knot and attached the rope with a krab!! We were stuck on a ledge without a spare rope (too skint) and no SRT kit (again too skint). I managed to climb up and cut enough off the end of the rope to finish the trip, exiting minutes before our call out time. She was an experienced caver, but I made sure never to go underground with her again.

 

[mikem]

Definite case for the most experienced caver to descend last!

 

[mrodoc]

Happened on the Moulin Marquis pull through in the Vecors years ago. I even have a photo of Brian Johnson ascending to sort it out. It was quite an exciting day as we went off piste and luckily had a bolting kit allowing us to get off the tiny ledge we landed on where there was no belay point.