POOR AIR, 2007

[Elaine]

No, surely it's ok to have it's the second time as it's short for it is.



Just practising my "it's" in that sentence!

 

[cap n chris]

Correct, Anne. It's always stands for "it is"; the apostrophe isn't possessive. Unlike me.

 

[Cookie]

No I'm talking about Peter's second "it's", not yours. Your second "it's" is fine and perfectly formed.  :kiss2:

 

[cap n chris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6UaU_Dzysc

 

[kay]

Where's the possessive s come from anyway? I notice that old music often has names like "Lord Essex his domp" - is, say, 'John's book' merely short for 'John, his book', the apostrophe showing that 'his' has had two letters omitted?

 

[whitelackington]

Poor Air on Mendip

is the connection between the caves which sometimes experience poor air
that they don't go anywhere?

 

[graham]

Poor Air on Mendip

is the connection between the caves which sometimes experience poor air
that they don't go anywhere?

No.

 

[cap n chris]

Perhaps it's because the people who experience the poor air don't go anywhere?

 

[ditzy 24//7]

Has anyone ever noticed bad air in any part of goatchurch cavern?
:-\

 

[cap n chris]

Yes, the long low tunnel at the bottom of Water Chamber.

 

[ditzy 24//7]

i think that me and spongebob have been down there and backed up so we havent actually been all the way through. Does it lead anywere?

 

[cap n chris]

It goes to the end.  :doubt:

 

[ditzy 24//7]

ok thanx cap 'n chris i may go to the end sumtime.

 

[whitelackington]

What I was trying to think through, not very well, is,
are there lots of reasons for bad air on Mendip,
or, other than someone tipping bad chemicals on the land, is it mainly one natural cause.

 

[Peter Burgess]

What I was trying to think through, not very well, is,
are there lots of reasons for bad air on Mendip,
or, other than someone tipping bad chemicals on the land, is it mainly one natural cause.

If it was chemicals from the land, I think the problems would have been reported consistently for many years, and would have been localised, rather than seeming to be quite a widespread problem.

As a Martian (which I am  :alien, I can look at the problem as a visitor from another planet, and can tell you that if you wander into a cavity formed in a carbonate rock, where carbon dioxide plays a major part in the formation of that cave and its minerals, and find it's full of carbon dioxide, a natural process is more likely to be the cause. But, hey, there are humans down there who have researched this stuff, so they may be better placed to explain things.

 

[Elaine]

What I was trying to think through, not very well, is,
are there lots of reasons for bad air on Mendip,
or, other than someone tipping bad chemicals on the land, is it mainly one natural cause.

You will make Hughie cross if you say these things!!

Have you any idea what farm chemicals cost? They are ludicrously expensive and used very sparingly if at all. Especially in these farming times*. Therefore if chemicals were to blame then the problem would be getting better each winter.



* For average sized livestock farms anyway.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I can't think what chemicals would generate more carbon dioxide anyway. Anything that made the ground more acidic I suppose. More acidic soil is hardly conducive for better grass yields surely?

 

[graham]

Chemic certainly is not the problem at G.B. where the cave itself is (largely) under a nature reserve which uses no chemicals & where the remainder of the catchment is on land whose usage has not changed in decades.

 

[Brains]

IMO the raised levels of CO2 are not related to the carbonate rock type, Ca does really, really like to stay as carbonate, and will only disassociate with some strong persuasion. Other rock types (eg shale) give off much more CO2. In an active system I would hazard a guess that the origin is mainly from washed in organic material breaking down, that is not being flushed out by the draft. In non active systems (fossil / mine) I would expect a greater input from the rock, and that mainly from clay wayboards, shales or coals. Gasses (and oils) can track for many miles along suitable conduits until becoming trapped or escaping to surface. I believe the ongoing series of bad air reports to be more closely related to the drier summers we have been getting and the greater awareness of the problem among cavers. Am I alone in remebering getting soaked every trip summer or winter 20 years ago, where nowadays a soaking is a sporting rarity in those same caves (eg P8)?

 

[Julie H]

Interestingly (or maybe not), we have bad air in one of the side passages off the new Upper Flood Extensions.  The main streamway and West Passage/Neverland draughts a hoolie but East Passage has bad air and has since we found it in October/November.  I have only been there the once as the air was so poor.  It was surveyed this weekend so hopefully we will be able to see where it fits into the scheme of things soon and the survey may give us some clues as to why the air is poor (e.g. it may sit under the MCG Septic tank  )