Question about Peli cases (seeking advice)

[Pitlamp]

I probably need to invest in a 1400 Peli case to get a drill through a sump. I've never used one before, so:

Can anybody advise on what sort of (real world) safe depth this would go to without risk of leaking?

Also, can anyone guide me on roughly how much lead it would need to make it neutrally buoyant with a drill & battery in?

Thanks!

 

[ChrisB]

Rated to IP67 which means not more than 1m deep for 30min so you'd need to put gaffer tape round it or something. I had one where the lid was warped and didn't seal properly. Looking at the dimensions it's about 15 litres and weighs 2kg, so 13kg of total contents will be about neutral.

 

[Pitlamp]

Thanks; yes, I saw the IP67 rating. That in itself isn't good enough to go through a 6 m deep sump. It's why I wanted real world advice. Gaffer tape isn't really a solution; it's not an effective seal at 1.6 bars pressure and it'd be less than easy to apply for the return in the situation beyond the sump in question.

Thanks especially for the advice re the likely amount of lead needed.

There may be a different solution to this problem, although it's a long shot. Does anyone know of a suitable small SDS hammer drill that would fit inside a standard (6 litres I think) "Darren drum"? I've used these to take camera equipment through a long sump 8 m deep. It was firmly packed with rags inside to give some protection against wall collapse. As a matter of interest these drums will go significantly deeper without leaking if a Schrader-type valve is fitted into the lid so they can be pumped up before diving.

But if folk think a Peli case would cope through a short (20 m long) 6 m deep sump, that would be the solution of choice.

 

[pwhole]

It's a difficult question to definitely answer without trying it, but my Makita SDS and two batteries still floats inside a 1400, but it's certainly not 'on top', so it may not need that much extra weight. Obviously I've never dived through a sump with mine, but it has made many waterborne journeys, and it floating was the best part. I've sent it down a flooded Speedwell streamway more that once ahead of me with no ill effects. Could a high-quality drybag be a sufficient seal?

As for robustness, both me and Scud lost our 1300s down the hill from Longcliffe Mine shaft top, bouncing all the way until they slammed into the wall at the bottom - in my case with a DSLR inside. No damage at all. But it knocked a stone out of the wall

 

[Pitlamp]

Ah yes - it's on a steep slope isn't it? Good job such a sturdy item didn't take out a car!

 

[IanWalker]

I probably need to invest in a 1400 Peli case to get a drill through a sump. I've never used one before, so:

Can anybody advise on what sort of (real world) safe depth this would go to without risk of leaking?

Also, can anyone guide me on roughly how much lead it would need to make it neutrally buoyant with a drill & battery in?

Thanks!

I bought one for this purpose, which you are welcome to borrow for trials (or just buy)

Without risk of leaking would be zero depth! Batteries in freezer bags would be a good insurance for minor leaks.

I didn't take it to 6m (I think I tested it to 3m), but it's pretty robust so I would expect it to be okay. If it leaks in testing you could remove the autovent and add an air input valve (for your inflator hose?).

I trialled the buoyancy and ended up adding in the region of 5kg lead (though my single battery and drill are very light). Bolting metalwork could make up some of the ballast, but 5kg is a lot to make up.

In the event the case was too cumbersome for the passages I needed to get it through, and too big to fit in a tacklebag so it became an extra item to carry. Double drybags suited my project better so now the peli case is unused.

I think it would suit passing and repassing a short sump, if you had the lead stored there. It would be less suitable if your project has lots of caving, IMO.

 

[Pitlamp]

Thanks Ian; some good advice there, not to mention your generous offer of help.

I'll PM you separately but what model of drill did you fit into it? And is yours a Peli 1400?

 

[Pitlamp]

It's a difficult question to definitely answer without trying it, but my Makita SDS and two batteries still floats inside a 1400, but it's certainly not 'on top', so it may not need that much extra weight. Obviously I've never dived through a sump with mine, but it has made many waterborne journeys, and it floating was the best part. I've sent it down a flooded Speedwell streamway more that once ahead of me with no ill effects. Could a high-quality drybag be a sufficient seal?

As for robustness, both me and Scud lost our 1300s down the hill from Longcliffe Mine shaft top, bouncing all the way until they slammed into the wall at the bottom - in my case with a DSLR inside. No damage at all. But it knocked a stone out of the wall

Which model of drill is yours? I seem to remember you posted some useful photos of your set up a few years ago but I can't immediately find it.

 

[pwhole]

Mine's the 242 with removeable chuck - here's the photo that I probably posted before. Note that the non-replaceable chuck model won't fit! Incidentally there is still a layer of foam under the drill too, and with the lid layer, will probably be adding further buoyancy. I guess they could be replaced with something more solid if you still needed the padding. Like lead sheet!

 

[pwhole]

Ah yes - it's on a steep slope isn't it? Good job such a sturdy item didn't take out a car!

Luckily there's another field in-between there and the road. But it could have easily taken out a few tourists. Never mind - there's always another opportunity for that

 

[Pitlamp]

Thanks for that information / photo, especially the bit about the removal chuck.
Is that box a Peli 1400?

Your comment immediately above reminds me of the time when a large fibreglass ring went AWOL from the Titan surface dig compound in very windy conditions. We hardly dared look for collateral damage in the obvious trajectory! But by comparing the wind direction with a large scale map we figured out where it'd gone. Yet there was no obvious trace and no local scandal about damage being caused. I had this wild idea it must have got caught in one of those gullies in the steep drop off west from Peak Cavern Gorge. So I went for a look and (thankfully) it'd got caught in a depression in the most likely gully. Phew! I wasn't there the day it was recovered but I bet it wasn't easy.

 

[Pitlamp]

Oh - and what capacity batteries are those? 3 Ah? (Just weighing up sizes.)

 

[ChrisB]

there is still a layer of foam under the drill too, and with the lid layer, will probably be adding further buoyancy.

Foam inside the box won't add buoyancy unless the box is full of water. If the box is dry it's just mass, and reduces buoyancy - but that might be what you meant and I'm just being pedantic.

 

[Pitlamp]

Pwhole; is that removable chuck standard on the 242 or was that a special model you bought?

It looks like the main difference between the 242 and 171 is that the former also has chisel function and is slightly larger. and a bit more expensive. Looks like the 171 doesn't chisel (but does fit easily in the 1400 Peli case).

So the 242 looks like a better tool - before I order I need to be sure the chuck will come off then it'll fit in the Peli case.
Are there two different models of 242 or is the removable chuck standard. (I've looked online but can't find that information.)

 

[pwhole]

Pwhole; is that removable chuck standard on the 242 or was that a special model you bought?

It looks like the main difference between the 242 and 171 is that the former also has chisel function and is slightly larger. and a bit more expensive. Looks like the 171 doesn't chisel (but does fit easily in the 1400 Peli case).

So the 242 looks like a better tool - before I order I need to be sure the chuck will come off then it'll fit in the Peli case.
Are there two different models of 242 or is the removable chuck standard. (I've looked online but can't find that information.)

Ah, sorry, it might be called the 243 with the removable chuck? I'm out at the moment. But yes, it's a damn good chisel as well as a drill.

 

[pwhole]

DHR243 - Rotary Hammer LXT®

Product

www.makitauk.com

 

[Steve Clark]

Mark Burkey spoke about this when I did a photo workshop with him. I can’t remember the specifics so won’t attempt to regurgitate it. Definitely possible at shallow depths.

As a backup, one of those thin, nylon drybags (exped etc.) around the drill would probably save it from even a proper flood. Cheaper versions available from Lomo.

We’ve been using a dry tube made of an empty Gavin scooter body and a nose cone on each end. That’s massive but worked as deep as we wanted to take it (75m).

 

[Pitlamp]

Ah, sorry, it might be called the 243 with the removable chuck? I'm out at the moment. But yes, it's a damn good chisel as well as a drill.

Thanks - that solves that riddle then!

 

[Stuart France]

Frankly, Pelicases are not reliably waterproof. It depends how you use them. I've used hundreds of them over the years for covert electronics outdoors with mixed results, generally just under the ground surface. Also used them in caves. Peli suggest you should change their lid gasket annually. For example, I put one in a place that is drippy in wet weather in a local cave, hidden under some rocks - it filled with water over a period of 6 months. I've had the same experience in other caves: I was thinking initially that someone was deliberately doing it, but later realised the water was getting in by itself between the lid and the base. The solution to this is to put the case with the lid downwards so there is an "air bell" inside the Pelicase, or put a plastic box that has an open top that is slightly bigger than the Pelicase upside down over the Pelicase like an umbrella of sorts.

I've tried testing Pelicases (lid closed) hanging them on a washing line for a few weeks. These did not get water inside. My conclusion is that they withstand a temporary dunking, like rain or rolling a kayak, but not continuous damp or drippy conditions.

There are alternatives - search for Seahorse Cases which seem to me far better engineered but diving is a "big ask" for any container. I'd suggest you fill your case with bricks or lead weights and take it on a test dive to find out if it leaks. The IP standard does not mean what you think it does because the definitions generally allow for a limited amount of water to enter the case under test, and of course the circumstances of actual use determine if "limited" will be damaging. From my viewpoint, and I suppose most other people's expectations, "limited" water ingress would be a fail.

 

[Pitlamp]

Thanks Stuart; that's very useful information.

One alternative option I'm considering is to make a dry bag out of neoprene and a section of old drysuit zip. We used one many times to get a drill through Far Sump in Peak Cavern (385 m / -8 m) and it never leaked. Someone is selling a second hand Peli for a reasonable price so I'll test that first.

You're right about diving being a big ask; I've spent a lifetime watching all sorts of "waterproof" items fail!