Recharging Lithium Ion Batteries in Club Huts

[Jester]

From Priddy you'll be driving down to Wells or Cheddar to get petrol or diesel. EVs can do the same if they need a charge.

Yes, except filling up with Dino juice takes 5 minutes so minimal lost caving/drinking time. Charging an EV takes hours on most chargers, hours you could be caving or drinking at a hut while it charges in the car park.

If the future is EVs (a separate topic) then the more places to charge them the better.

 

[aricooperdavis]

I can think of a few reasons why clubs may choose to provide EV charging but not petrol pumps...

- charging EVs should be done overnight (when other electricity use is low)
- charging EVs takes longer than filling a petrol car
- most club huts already have existing infrastructure for electricity provision
- it's very common to charge EVs in a domestic setting, so people are used to it

Club huts are simply a consequence of the club members getting together and deciding it's convenient for them to have a hut. If they also decide it's convenient for them and their guests to be able to charge their EVs at their hut then that makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[pwhole]

The TSG Chapel doesn't even have car parking, never mind EV charging, so thankfully it's one service we don't have to worry about.

 

[JoshW]

To be honest in the 2 years it as not had a great deal of use. With electric cars having a much longer range in future clubs may not need to install electric car charging

it’ll certainly be getting a bit of use from me soon!

 

[darren]

The TSG Chapel doesn't even have car parking, never mind EV charging, so thankfully it's one service we don't have to worry about.

First time I've heard anyone be thankful the TSG hasn't got a carpark.

 

[pwhole]

I don't drive, that's why.

And the bus stop is 50 metres away - not that it always turns up!

 

[wellyjen]

The TSG Chapel doesn't even have car parking, never mind EV charging, so thankfully it's one service we don't have to worry about.

It doesn't have car parking, but it does have a garage.

 

[darren]

I've seen the completely charred remains of a farmhouse (one of my wife's relatives) when an electric motorbike was left charging under the veranda (Australia).

Thankfully battery fires are uncommon but unlike a smouldering phone or torch that you might be able to chuck out of a window, when they're scaled up to motorbike and car they're pretty much unstoppable

Essex fire rescue on EV fires "Our preferred approach is to let them burn themselves out" (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-66866327.amp)

So probably this becoming topical for EVs and the like, is driving an abundance of caution for smaller batteries. Personally I charge batteries by the back door, although completely inconsistently I don't take the same with phones. (Li Polymer?)

Going back to the original post.

Has anyone personally had a fire as a result of charging a head torch, phone or tablet battery?

I suspect there is more chance of an alcohol related vehicle collision on a Sunday morning than of a battery fire.

 

[mikem]

I've had a phone battery swell up impressively but not catch fire.

Hopefully they don't manage to hit the hut! Although the hunters has been damaged by several different vehicles, generally not those who have been patronising it...

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Going back to the original post.

Has anyone personally had a fire as a result of charging a head torch, phone or tablet battery?

I suspect there is more chance of an alcohol related vehicle collision on a Sunday morning than of a battery fire.

I think frequency of occurrence of EV fire is low but impact is very very high. I'd put the risk as high based on potential impact.

I've seen two internal combustion vehicle fires, both went from some smoke but not much drama... to fully ferociously ablaze in a matter of minutes.

So hearing that EV fires are exponentially worse and can involve shooting jets of flame sideways setting fire to vehicles (or buildings) metres away, and being extremely difficult for fire services to extinguish even in urban settings quickly on scene with a couple of appliances/fire engines and have ready access to hydrants, I wouldn't want an EV within 6 metres of a building, especially not the front door and certainly not in a remote location!

Speculatively... EV fires will become more of a thing as the number of vehicles rises especially as the battery age. A fair proportion of EVs are reasonably new, maybe not so in a few years time? Again speculation: buildings insurance policies will start defining distances in their T&Cs.

 

[pwhole]

As a non-driver, I find this whole situation very strange - that EVs can be sold in volume when there clearly aren't sufficient charging points for them (at a high enough speed), and installing 'your own' is so fraught with difficulty and danger. Obviously installing your own fuel station isn't any easier, but they're pretty common, and fast. I may not drive, but still have to fill up work vans, and there's no way we could operate if we had to spend an hour or two charging one. One of my friends with an EV gets 'range anxiety ' - as in, not knowing for certain that she can get home after a long trip. Seems an odd way to operate.

 

[mikem]

Most purchasers either didn't consider it or bought one as a town runabout (keeping a 2nd vehicle for long runs if required)

 

[JoshW]

Most purchasers either didn't consider it or bought one as a town runabout (keeping a 2nd vehicle for long runs if required)

Or have considered that the vast majority of their usage is shorter journeys and so can put up with the minor inconvenience on infrequent longer trips as the overall benefits outweigh it.

 

[darren]

Anyone any personal issues with Head Tourch, phone or tablet batteries?

 

[ChrisB]

very strange - that EVs can be sold in volume when there clearly aren't sufficient charging points for them

It's chicken and egg in a market economy. Public charging points are expensive to install and nobody is going to spend that money unless there are enough users to ensure it's profitable.

Our small EV charges at home for local trips, and typically requires one 20 min stop on a return trip to the Dales (or a reason to visit YSS).

 

[darren]

Perhaps they should ban the sale of new international combustion engine cars after 2030? This would enable companies to predict demand and invest accordingly.

 

[gareth]

Anyone any personal issues with Head Tourch, phone or tablet batteries?

Had a lucky escape with this laptop. The battery charging circuit burnt through the keyboard and screen but thankfully the cells didn't actually go up. It happened in my hand, just after i'd turned it off, I saw the black smoke and took it outside very quickly!

The company who sold the replacement battery were pretty eager to rebuild the laptop for me (which actually still worked once I disconnected the battery).

After market replacement batteries for phones, tablets, etc are a bit of a nightmare really, as it's almost impossible to know what you're buying...

 

[wormster]

I've had one go thermal at work - ok it was at 4.2v and had shorted the cathode tag, which I had carefully removed, I inadvertently chopped through the anode tag - result red hot sparking Catherine wheel in the fume cupboard!! Put the burnt out cell in pyromet and wait for the investigation afterwards!! NOT a good day at work!!

Part of my job regularly involves chopping up lithium ion cells after some rigorous vibration and thermal vacuum cycles!!!

 

[Steve Clark]

A work colleague had a drone battery set on fire in his study / home office. It was a small custom cell from an FPV drone. So it had been professionally made but not a full commercially mass produced product.

He was in the room at the time but it still damaged the desk, burnt the carpet and created enough smoke that he needed to redecorate.

 

[JAA]

I would also guess that in terms of risk of using crappy batteries I’d rank it something like
1) vapes
2) e-bikes
3) headtorches
4) phones/laptops/tablets etc

I suspect not but a search of the home office documents from fire investigations should give an accurate reflection. Anectodal but I’ve never been to a fire caused by a vape battery, or a lamp battery or phone charging type set up. But I’ve been to lots caused by over loaded extension leads etc.
I think for a while the most likely cause of a domestic house fire statistically was welding equipment…
Agree with the other poster. Mitigate the risk with charging in specific areas, fire detection being well maintained etc. Fire separation between areas used to maintainance etc and sleeping areas should be sufficient to allow guests to escape anyway.
TLDR: I think an outright ban on charging would be too restrictive and an over reaction.