Recharging Lithium Ion Batteries in Club Huts
- Thread starter Bob Mehew
- Start date
Bob Mehew
Well-known member
My concern about having a s7(2)d visit by a fire officer from your local fire station is that if things are bad it might result in a prohibition notice under the The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 being issued banning the use of the premises until specified improvements have been implemented! (I am told at least one climbing club hut was shut for a while following such a visit.) I'm afraid I don't have advice to hand on how to check one is not at such a risk as it covers a range of topics including building regulations, gas and electrical safety as well as fire precautions. I would welcome being contacted by anyone who has some expertise on this topic.
Far better than a fatality or serious injury. If it is bad enough to require prohibition notice the Hut really shouldn't be in use, and the club is seriously failing its members and it's duty of care.
Or just give them a plan of where stuff may be locate ie dive cylinders, fire escapes, utilities cut offs etc
JAA
Well-known member
7.2d visit is more about familiarisation for Ops crews @Bob Mehew. A club which accepts paying guests will fall under an inspection schedule under the RRO anyway so any issues which would generate a prohibition notice would be picked up through that.
Prohibition notices tend to be a last resort and certainly in North Yorkshire unless it’s an imminent danger to life (fire exits all chained shut/no fire detection etc) the aim is to work with the responsible persons to advice and help them get stuff to where it needs to be legislation wise.
I’ll qualify that with I hate doing technical fire safety so it’s not my strong suit
Prohibition notices tend to be a last resort and certainly in North Yorkshire unless it’s an imminent danger to life (fire exits all chained shut/no fire detection etc) the aim is to work with the responsible persons to advice and help them get stuff to where it needs to be legislation wise.
I’ll qualify that with I hate doing technical fire safety so it’s not my strong suit
Space Doubt Caver
Active member
I think if you go to a private fire extinguisher company, they can help you, and give good advice, but they will also tell you if something has to be further inspected, and if it does need further inspection from a FSO then you know to do so, but if you don't you save money but legally what @JAA is correct
People make changes or boxes designed for caring lithiums they are fire proof. Origanly designed for rc however might work.
They make charging and storage boxes for lipo batteries. Origanly designed do rc.
An example I know expensive however cheaper options https://www.unimac.co.uk/lithium-battery-charging-cabinet-premium---11894gb-11587-p.asp. hope this might help.
Bob Mehew
Well-known member
I did consider them but was not convinced that approach was a cost effective solution. Though a simple approach of having an external shed which did not contain other expensive gear (like tackle) is a solution. Though I would emphasise a key safety component is having a linked smoke alarm by the batteries which are located in a separate room from the sleeping quarters which also has linked smoke alarms and whose location does NOT block the fire escape routes. (A common factor across a number of the fires is that the batteries were on the fire escape route!)
wellyjen
Well-known member
There is now a German standard for cabinets used to store and charge ebike batteries. Similar in size to drill batts, but bigger than the typical caving lamp battery. Could become an EU standard and if it does is may be something that insurers will insist on in a few years time as best practice.
https://wheelik.com/the-new-vdma-24...-prevent-fires-on-electric-bicycle-batteries/
https://wheelik.com/the-new-vdma-24...-prevent-fires-on-electric-bicycle-batteries/
nickwilliams
Well-known member
Yesterday the Government published what they refer to as 'statutory guidance' which must be followed by manufacturers of batteries for e-bikes. if you want to read it it's here.
It is relevant to the discussion here that the guidance only covers batteries for e-bikes. Clearly, the government sees these as a much higher risk than the smaller batteries used in vapes, head torches, phone and laptops. They are probably right.
There is a series of standards which cover the safety of lithium batteries. These have been around for over a decade and they include thermal and mechanical damage tests. Any battery which complies with these standards will be, for all normal purposes, safe. Adoption of the standards has been driven primarily by market forces: big retailers won't accept products containing batteries which are not independently certified to comply and nor will big manufacturers of mobile phones and laptops etc. Taken together, these applications cover the vast majority of lithium batteries sold to the general public, so there is no need for the government to regulate this sector any further.
E-bike batteries are clearly bigger risk - they are physically much bigger and, crucially, they enter the market via a route which usually avoids independent certification. I suspect the same is true of most of the batteries which end up in caving lights, but this is a niche market where the primary factors which drive the choice of batteries are capacity and reliability rather than cost.
Banning battery charging in the sleeping quarters of huts is a no-brainer but laptop owners generally want to be able to leave their devices on charge during the day, somewhere out of view. Given that laptop batteries will be approved to the relevant standards then allowing them to be charged in sleeping quarters during the day is probably safe enough, but for the avoidance of any ambiguity, I would ban all other types of battery charging from sleeping quarters.
For caving lights, I would make a fireproof box or cupboard (a metal cupboard lined with plasterboard would be ideal) and position it somewhere which is accessible but not on an escape route. For e-bike batteries, I would say they should only be charged off the the bike, in an outbuilding, or a metal/plaster board cupboard fixed to an outside wall.
One final observation I would make (with my product safety nerd's anorak firmly fastened to the collar) is that the way the government have regulated in this case is highly unusual, and would not have been possible if we were still within the EU Single Market.
It is relevant to the discussion here that the guidance only covers batteries for e-bikes. Clearly, the government sees these as a much higher risk than the smaller batteries used in vapes, head torches, phone and laptops. They are probably right.
There is a series of standards which cover the safety of lithium batteries. These have been around for over a decade and they include thermal and mechanical damage tests. Any battery which complies with these standards will be, for all normal purposes, safe. Adoption of the standards has been driven primarily by market forces: big retailers won't accept products containing batteries which are not independently certified to comply and nor will big manufacturers of mobile phones and laptops etc. Taken together, these applications cover the vast majority of lithium batteries sold to the general public, so there is no need for the government to regulate this sector any further.
E-bike batteries are clearly bigger risk - they are physically much bigger and, crucially, they enter the market via a route which usually avoids independent certification. I suspect the same is true of most of the batteries which end up in caving lights, but this is a niche market where the primary factors which drive the choice of batteries are capacity and reliability rather than cost.
Banning battery charging in the sleeping quarters of huts is a no-brainer but laptop owners generally want to be able to leave their devices on charge during the day, somewhere out of view. Given that laptop batteries will be approved to the relevant standards then allowing them to be charged in sleeping quarters during the day is probably safe enough, but for the avoidance of any ambiguity, I would ban all other types of battery charging from sleeping quarters.
For caving lights, I would make a fireproof box or cupboard (a metal cupboard lined with plasterboard would be ideal) and position it somewhere which is accessible but not on an escape route. For e-bike batteries, I would say they should only be charged off the the bike, in an outbuilding, or a metal/plaster board cupboard fixed to an outside wall.
One final observation I would make (with my product safety nerd's anorak firmly fastened to the collar) is that the way the government have regulated in this case is highly unusual, and would not have been possible if we were still within the EU Single Market.
Bob Mehew
Well-known member
At least one hut has been banned from permitting charging of e-bikes & scooters on their permises.
