Resin Anchor cut off - Sell Gill

Ian P

Moderator
Staff member
A resin P bolt has been cut off on the traverse on the first pitch of Sell Gill Wet route.

It appears to have been done with an hacksaw which must have taken some effort.

If anyone has any information about it could they please either post here, message me or send an email to the anchor coordinator at anchors@cncc.org.uk

Any issues with anchors, filling in this web form is significantly easier than cutting it off.
IMG_1360.jpeg


TIA
Ian Patrick
(CNCC anchor installer)
 
significantly easier than cutting it off
And much better, as it enables the anchor installers to investigate what the problem was and, if it needs to be replaced, it can probably be extracted and the hole re-used. That sawn off anchor is now a permanent feature of cave damage.
 
The plan is to look at core drilling it out.
Currently looking for a “Thin Wall” core drill with a 16mm internal diameter.

If anyone knows of any suppliers of such an item in the UK then please let me know


Regards
Ian
Do share details if you find one and try it. It'd be really interesting to have a go with something like that on the Anchor Working Group workshop next month. I expect it'll be a pain to do, but worth an experiment.
 
I’d suggest giving Hertfordshire Diamond Products a call and let them know your requirements. They’re the premier manufacturer/ supplier in the UK.
 
I’d suggest giving Hertfordshire Diamond Products a call and let them know your requirements. They’re the premier manufacturer/ supplier in the UK.
I have just had a very helpful chat with them (a real novelty speaking to a human 😁)

They offer a 17mm internal diameter with a 22mm outside diameter x 120mm working length drill bit.
Cost with VAT and delivery is £47.93

I will do a bit more research but thanks for the quality lead 👍
 
I'd try one of these first at home, 22mm is a whooper of a hole.
 
I'd try one of these first at home, 22mm is a whooper of a hole.
We need a 16mm internal diameter to go over the legs of the anchor (2x 8mm legs). That appears to be 16mm outside diameter?
 
A resin P bolt has been cut off on the traverse on the first pitch of Sell Gill Wet route.

There is some context here that readers may find useful.

From the beginnings of the CNCC resin anchor scheme in the early 1990s, users have been required to undertake a pre-use check. Users are encouraged to report unsatisfactory anchors to the CNCC so that they can be inspected by the installer team. Installers are required to decommission any which they find to be unsafe (for example, if they were worn, damaged or loose). The method of decommissioning is not specified.

As it happens, even loose or damaged anchors can often be very difficult to remove, and the installers were historically not provided with effective means to remove entire anchors. So various methods were trialled and adopted. This included hacksawing them off, melting the resin out with a blowtorch, hamering them flat, drilling the resin and twisting with a long bar. Also recently in Simpson Pot a number of old anchors were chopped off with an angle grinder, as reported previously on this forum.

So it is possible today to find evidence of decommisioned anchors in caves in the Dales.

Once the anchor is decommisioned (removed or rendered unusable), some installers choose to cover cut-off stubs or holes with resin and/or mud in an attempt to beautify the cave. Its fair to say this has advantages and disadvantages. Some anchor remnants are left exposed, and some holes are left open. The CNCC at present does not require this additional work, or dictate to installers how to leave former anchor placements.

Nowadays we have the CNCC anchor puller, meaning the old DMM twin-leg designs can be extracted completely. The modern IC anchor is specifically designed to be pulled out cleanly, with the aim that the hole can be reused. And we have the means to extract spits to re-use te placement.

Re-use of old holes is something that the CNCC is actively investigating at present, which is important for conservation reasons. It's going to becoming more common in coming years, because the 1990s anchors have been in 30+ years and as they age, we are finding a (small) number of them are becoming loose due to the resin technology available/chosen at the time.

As ever, check anchors before use. And please report loose anchors, it really does help. And they are your anchors after all.

Ian
Anchor Coordinator 2025/26
 
We need a 16mm internal diameter to go over the legs of the anchor (2x 8mm legs).
The bit that Sam linked says it's for cutting rebar as well, and for use dry. Whether stainless is harder to cut than high yield carbon steel I don't know, and usually when drilling reinforced concrete most of the bars are across the hole not along it. Normal diamond core bits would generally cut rebar provided there was enough concrete in the cut to generate an abrasive slurry; used dry, the bit will be carrying the swarf with it and may have a similar effect.

It would be a useful experiment to see if a 16mm OD bit will cut the anchor itself. If it doesn't work, you can still use a 16mm ID, all that's lost is the 16mm OD bit.
 
I actually cobbled together something which would do exactly what you want last year. I doubt you’ll find anything with less than a 22mm OD, for a 16mm ID.
The HowNot2 video (very helpfully) links to an alternative supplier (AliExpress) so you can get them direct, cheaper, and with a greater range of sizes. (I assumed this is what IanP was asking about). The wall thickness is 1.25mm so a 19mmOD should go over a 16mm DMM. For the small cost its worth a go in my opinion.

I love to go to local suppliers with a good reputation, but I think we should be considering other options too. Having a small hole diameter is important for hole re-use. And the equipment looks lightweight and compact, which is an advantage. Possibly not as robust though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf0W34PqTXc

 

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Putting a 12 mm anchor in a 21 mm hole should probably invite caution... plus you may need to re-drill the hole after diamond core drilling to get an adequate 'roughness' so might end up being 22 mm. That said the Fischer EM resin is rated for diamond-drilled holes. Would be a very bad idea, I suspect, with the Fischer V Plus resin.
 
the tangs provide a minor complication
Good point. Using a 16mm ID, the bit would hit the tangs which would negate some of the benefit of using a bit that encloses the anchor legs. Using a 16mm OD that was designed to cut steel, they wouldn't add much to the amount of steel to be cut.
 
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