Rigging in Ireby

[flashheart]

We had a nice trip in to Ireby Fell Cavern today. It looks like there have been a few changes in the rigging:
1) At the top of Ding pitch an anchor has been chopped, and another one pulled out, along with a small amount of limestone. We rigged a Y hang a little further along the Shadow Route traverse, which worked fine.
2) Some new IC anchors have appeared on the right wall of Bell pitch (facing out) since last time I visited.
3) The in situ rope on Pussy pitch has been removed.
4) Another anchor has been chopped on the second part of Well pitch.
5) The in situ rope on Rope pitch has been removed.
Apologies if all this is already common knowledge, just thought it might be helpful to anyone planning a trip. Anyone know why the anchors have been ground off / removed? Just curious.

 

[flakey]

Numerous of the anchors in Ireby were tested towards the end of last year and found to move unacceptably. They were replaced, but not necessarily like-for-like if the old holes could not be reused or if the quality of the rock did not permit it. So the set of anchors has changed slightly, but I believe the topo was updated.

You should not rely on in-situ ropes ever being in place or in a safe condition to use.

 

[CNCC]

Hi Flashheart. Hope you had a great trip.

Our anchor team are currently in the process of an extensive audit of CNCC's anchors across our region, particularly in response to reports we have received over recent years about some anchors showing movement.

Most of these are sites which were anchored fairly early in the CNCC's program (early-mid 1990s) using resin which has shown very slight shrinkage over time. Ireby Fell is probably one of these and it is possible that some recent remedial changes have been made which have not yet been updated on the topo... although we try to keep on top of these as best as our volunteer resource allows.

The IC anchors you saw may be direct replacements for defective P-type anchors, so would not result in any topo changes.

Hopefully some of our anchor team who are active on this forum will be able to help clarify

In-situ ropes are, of course, nothing to do with CNCC and we always urge cavers to go prepared to rig your own.

Edit... Flakey's response came in while we were typing

 

[flashheart]

Thanks Flakey

 

[flashheart]

... And the CNCC!

 

[Babyhagrid]

Some of the potential shrinkage issues in Ireby. (Which was reported last year)

 

[flakey]

View attachment 25429
Some of the potential shrinkage issues in Ireby. (Which was reported last year)

Actually that looks like one of a few where the surface of the limestone has eroded backwards since the anchor was installed, if it's on (iirc) Well pitch. The resin itself was not the issue here!

 

[Babyhagrid]

It was the deviation on Bell pitch

 

[CNCC]

When our installers were putting in anchors in the 1990s in our most popular potholes, we bet they never imagined them needing replacing in 30 years due to the limestone around them having eroded away!

 

[ChrisB]

Always worth checking the CNCC website for an update - the topo is noted as being recently updated

 

[wellyjen]

When our installers were putting in anchors in the 1990s in our most popular potholes, we bet they never imagined them needing replacing in 30 years due to the limestone around them having eroded away!

They were always meant to be a long term, replaceable solution for the decades ahead. The bolt rash on many pitch heads from the multitude of spits as they wore out wasn't sustainable. Resin did less damage to the limestone around the hole. If it has lasted better than the rock around it, then it's worth has been proved.

 

[Alex]

That's one way to measure how quickly limestone "melts" in water. That's quite a bit, so if we blast water through a dig for 30 years we might be able to fit at the end of it

 

[Chris Curry]

5) The in situ rope on Rope pitch has been removed.

Good evening @flashheart, can you confirm that my yellow Gleistein rope is still on Well pitch please? There was a skinny red rope on Rope Pitch alternative hang - I mistakenly thought this belonged to the Misty Mountain Mud Miners whose permission I'd sought to use their ropes for a dive project. Turns out it was someone else's, so if it's been removed I'll just have to pop back and re-rig it.

 

[flashheart]

Good evening @flashheart, can you confirm that my yellow Gleistein rope is still on Well pitch please? There was a skinny red rope on Rope Pitch alternative hang - I mistakenly thought this belonged to the Misty Mountain Mud Miners whose permission I'd sought to use their ropes for a dive project. Turns out it was someone else's, so if it's been removed I'll just have to pop back and re-rig it.

Hi Chris, yes, your yellow Gleistein is still there, as is the red rope on the alternative to Rope. At one time there was a short in-situ rope on the direct Rope pitch, and this is no longer there.

 

[Chris Curry]

Hi Chris, yes, your yellow Gleistein is still there, as is the red rope on the alternative to Rope. At one time there was a short in-situ rope on the direct Rope pitch, and this is no longer there.

Excellent, thank you Flashheart.

Does anyone know whose the red rope is? I was planning on using it for exit from Ireby following a dive, but as it turns out it doesn't belong to the MMMMC I should probably ask the owner before relying on it being there.

 

[hannahb]

Apparently "the red ropes on well pitch and rope pitch alternative were from some event years ago. They need de-rigging!"

I thought they had been de-rigged. Perhaps they have reappeared. @georgenorth might know more.

 

[Chris Curry]

Apparently "the red ropes on well pitch and rope pitch alternative were from some event years ago. They need de-rigging!"

I thought they had been de-rigged. Perhaps they have reappeared. @georgenorth might know more.

Well if you could restrain Ian from derigging it in the next few weeks that would be greatly appreciated Hannah

 

[hannahb]

Well if you could restrain Ian from derigging it in the next few weeks that would be greatly appreciated Hannah

He has no plans to do so as far as I'm aware. But also I do not control him!

 

[flakey]

Well if you could restrain Ian from derigging it in the next few weeks that would be greatly appreciated Hannah

If you haven’t already found out whose ropes they are, perhaps you could leave a note at the top of them asking whose they are and whether you can dive on them?

 

[IanWalker]

Others have pretty much summed up the situation but just for the avoidance of doubt:-

Yes, the CNCC bolting team has been active in Ireby in the last year. Following multiple reports of unsatisfactory anchors, a number have been inspected on Ding/Dong/Bell. Some anchors did not pass the test and were removed. Where required, these were replaced with IC anchors (in the same hole if re-usable). This has been reported in the CNCC meetings and we try to keep the topos updated. No news announcement has been made as the project is ongoing. More anchors are likely to be replaced before the project is complete.

The deviation on Shadow Route is on the list for replacement - was too wet last time we visited. It appears to be rock erosion, same as found on Bell pitch.

I didn't remove the digging ropes. The owner confirmed these were no longer required and were removed by volunteers.

If anyone has any concerns they can make a report on the website, either about bolts or topos or anything else CNCC related!

Ian (Anchor Coordinator 2025/6)