Right to roam

[Chocolate fireguard]

If you give people freedom to do something, whatever it is, you will have those who abuse it.
Education sounds fine until you try it.
Society has to put up with bad behaviour by a small minority, locking them up in egregious cases.
Whinging helps a bit.

 

[Fjell]

A really strange culture seems to have developed out of music festivals (I presume) that people think it is OK to abandon your cheap tent and BBQ when you leave somewhere. I have seen it all over the Lakes in recent years. People leave piles of rubbish on the tops of the Three Peaks. I see people throwing shit out of their car window on the motorway FFS. The problem isn’t the nice fluffy people, it’s everyone else. And that’s before we get to the wide boys looking to nick your quad or sheep.

What struck me here in Ireland is there are far fewer dogs. And I suspect a dog in a pushchair or baby carrier would be met with the hilarity it totally deserves. But let’s be kind, eh?

 

[mikem]

The ban is mostly along the roads & only during the summer, if you're prepared to walk a bit further there's no problem:

Camping Management Byelaws - Here. Now. All of us.

Loch Lomond & The Trossachs National Park is an iconic place with outstanding landscapes, habitats and communities. We work to ensure a sustainable future for this special place.

www.lochlomond-trossachs.org

It's city living that started the culture of all litter being tidied up for you. Then one festival offered to repurpose tents for refugees...

 

[Cosmo Smallpiece]

I don't think it was only litter and damage that was the problem in the Trossachs. There was also just too many tents in the prime positions meaning that nobody else could share the space. I recall getting off the ferry at Rowardennan and having to negotiate a way through a mass of tents, guy ropes and drying lines just to find the WHW path. Further along not a problem as too far from the road for most to consider pitching.

I find the Right to Roam in Scotland not always ideal. In England a footpath generally means there's a right to be there and an exit at the other end. In Scotland a fine track going into a forest doesn't mean there will be an easy or pleasant way out of the other side. Then when you do come across a sign telling you there's no access you need to work out whether that is lawful and whether you want a run-in with a landowner about it.

 

[ChrisB]

The ban is mostly along the roads & only during the summer, if you're prepared to walk a bit further there's no problem:

If you're walking, that's true, more of an issue if you're canoeing as the roads mostly follow the lochside. The Land Reform Act doesn't permit camping from from a vehicle, so most roadside camping was already illegal. Access depends on people being reasonable and following the rules; if they're not, the solution should be education, or enforcing the existing law, not more legislation.

I find the Right to Roam in Scotland not always ideal. In England a footpath generally means there's a right to be there

Again, fine if what you want to do is walk, but not ride, paddle or cave. In Scotland, the chances are that a 'no access' sign isn't lawful, in England it probably is.

 

[Cosmo Smallpiece]

As an example of how confusing things are in Scotland. We did a local Loch walk a few weeks back. The loch claims to be privately owned and private paddle boarding or kayaking is prohibited. Having researched this it turns out these signs are not lawful. Have no idea where we would have been lawfully using their jetty to get in out? Not easy to otherwise get access to the water.

There's a lovely walk signed on one side of the loch. Looking at an O/S map the same UNCHANGED track continues onto the public highway back towards home. We bravely despatched the car and set off walking back. Miles further on the track crosses a railway which we are invited to cross with care, but beyond that is a locked gate with signage saying this is now private. Annoying you can hear and almost see the public road just beyond. So we dismissed the sign and climbed the gate and continued up to the road. Turned out later, after research that this sign was lawfully upheld by a local council investigation.

The in-laws who moved here hate the situation and refuse to break the law and be caught trespassing. They can't climb gates and barbed wire fences. Having come to Scotland to walk freely they are actually having to drive miles to use "proper" signposted tourist tracks that "go". They could do more accessible local walking back in England. 😆

 

[BikinGlynn]

Could be worse, Tories want to make trespass a criminal offence, that would be a massive issue for me personally.
Dont wanna end up like America you pretty much get thrown in court immediately if caught on anyone else's land.

 

[Fjell]

They keep trying to find legal ways to stop travellers camping on land for periods. Unless you are willing to get forceful it’s pointless. It’s even more pointless trying to fine them, let alone imprison them. No-one else has or ever will end up in court.

Could be worse, Tories want to make trespass a criminal offence, that would be a massive issue for me personally.
Dont wanna end up like America you pretty much get thrown in court immediately if caught on anyone else's land.

 

[Fjell]

WRT things like jetties anywhere in the UK, including Scotland, they are generally private. Ones owned by councils and harbours tend to be available, sometimes for a (harbour) fee. You can’t use other people’s stuff, that is not access in this context.

You will never have access to curtilage, the land around someones property used for day to day stuff. That includes everyone's garden.

I just got in from 20km hill walk in Ireland, There were zero paths. It is hard to exaggerate how unique the public footpath system is in England. People take it for granted, but it is a thing of wonder. Government sign leaving road saying no dogs again, it’s not the landowner.