Rock bashing in Overton Mine

[pwhole]

Interesting thread, and touches on a few interesting issues, especially in terms of artifacts. I occasionally bring home pebbles of galena when I find them on the floors of mines, not least as the variety between locations is quite considerable, and it's quite handy to compare the different types laid down. The galena from the eastern flanks is often very blue-tinted and glossy, whereas around Castleton it can be more grey and granular. Usually, that's all there is left anyway. And there's always some bits on the dumps and hillocks if you can be bothered to get on your knees. Shattered pieces of gangue minerals for study can be found pretty much anywhere in the Peaks.

But mining artifacts and minerals still in the rock are a different category altogether. A bunch of us recently experienced the removal of quite an important (though valueless in cash terms) artifact from a mine we were working on which potentially answered a long-standing question over transporation methods - thankfully it was photographed first, so not completely lost, but it was no longer in-situ to prove the point. Another artifact removed had actual organic materal that could have been dated and traced back to origin, and that can't be done from a photograph. In those cases, I was livid, as without our efforts, the artifacts would never have been available for inspection by anyone, never mind removal.

 

[Fulk]

No doubt that artefacts are best appreciated in-situ; but if somebody's going to come along and nick them, it makes one wonder if the 'responsible' thing to do is to remove them and hand them over to a museum (or maybe keep them at a caving hut?)

 

[Peter Burgess]

There are long established guidelines from NAMHO on the removal or otherwise of artefacts. "Keeping them at a caving hut" I seem to recall, is not one of them!

Perhaps we should not digress from the original topic. Removing artefacts is another subject although related.

You wonder what regard people have for artefacts and mining features, whose primary aim in visiting a site is to remove minerals. Suppose digging up a nice specimen involved the disturbance of in situ mining artefacts or archaeological features. Suppose a good specimen was actually part of a mining feature such as a retaining wall. Suppose digging up specimens destroyed footprints or evidence of haulage methods. You can see the potential for considerable loss of valuable mining interest.

I suppose the minerals themselves are quite a long way down my list of what I value from an old mine! It is however very nice to see them in situ as the miners would have found them.

 

[pwhole]

Well ironically, PDMHS would have been the first place these items would have gone, as they were aware of the find, and could probably have done something useful with them, or at least updated the records on what they signified. I'm still baffled why mineral collectors would happily bash out something like stals and crystals to view out of context - they look a bit daft on their own.

And mineral samples are hardly expensive - I bought a huge bunch of bits from Treak Cliff Cavern shop last year and still got change from twenty quid

 

[Antwan]

Reminds me of the two geology students I met a few years back at Burbage North armed with a hammer between them.

I cant remember which route's they were eying up the holds on but a few words and a bit of education later they were pottering in the small boulders down the slope. Tragedy averted!

 

[Bob Smith]

Ah yes delightful Geology students. Just remember this;

The surveyor will tell you where to get it from and how much is there.
The mining engineer will go and get most of it.
The mineral processor will lose most of that.
And the geologist will tell those that are interested how it got there. :

 

[alasdair neill]

Many of the best mineral specemins always came from working mines, it was/is usually a miners' perk to collect & sell pieces which would otherwise have been destroyed. An extension to this is the mine in Weardale which I believe is still classed as a working mine but is entirely worked with the intention of working samples.
  In our area in the Tamar Valley there awere some very nice exposures showing the mineralisation underground which have over the last few years been entirely removed. To do this the culprits have regularly broken locks off gates, disturbed a very significant bat colony, left rubbish & graffiti, & put notes up on the internet basically saying you can't get permission for access to the site therefore best to break in (in spite of cavers having had an access agreement for many years & made every effort to advertise the fact.