rope age

racingsnake

New member
According to some, SRT Rope should be retired at a certain age regardless of use or visable damage. The basic pricipal being that a rope which looks in new condition but which is ten years old may be unsafe while a one year old rope which looks worse could be fine. So the theory goes that ropes should in fact reach a retirment age at which they should be binned. (Also regardless of testing)
While after twenty five years of caving  without a single incident of rope breakage I still cannot agree or disagree with this idea.

My somewhat pedantic point is this:
If we agree for example that rope will be binned at Three years regardless, at what point does the clock start ticking.
How long has the stuff been in the storeroom at inglesport Caving supplies etc. Should a sell by date be imposed? are their guidlines already?

 
L

Limestone_Cowboy

Guest
Here at the university of Liverpool potholing club our student union insist on a five year time limit regardless of how good the rope looks, after this time it should be put beyond use (which currently means chopping into unuseable lengths or being taken for digging rope to haul stuff, not that we have any digs). Of course if it looks knackered before five years is up then it gets chucked anyways.
 

SamT

Moderator
If your going to impose a limit (presumabley because its club/work/school rope and hence there are liability issues). Then I believe that reels of new rope have a manufactured on date stamped on the reel - and a recommended life span - usually 3 or 5 years from date of manufacture. I think the "manufactured on" date is the one at which point the clock starts ticking.

IIRC, isnt there a strand which runs right though the rope - which is bar coded with data such as date of manufacter, batch no, etc.
or did I dream that one.
 

racingsnake

New member
Hi Sam

Think you may have dreamed that one. But date of manu must be the start date.  Are you shure that is on the reel ???

D
 
R

RM

Guest
On all new rope as far as im aware your quite rite sam there is a plastic strand through it. I know it has the codes, as needed for Irata etc. not sure about the date, but you could get this from the codes

atleast thats what i remember
 

whitelackington

New member
Of course, this applies to properly stored ropes, if in sunlight for ex life not that long, if in carboots life not so long etc.
 

Stu

Active member
racingsnake said:
My somewhat pedantic point is this:
If we agree for example that rope will be binned at Three years regardless, at what point does the clock start ticking.
How long has the stuff been in the storeroom at inglesport Caving supplies etc. Should a sell by date be imposed? are their guidlines already?

The advice being given by manufacturers to the industry, is that any rope has a shelf life of 10 years when stored correctly. The normal usage that could be expected is five years within that. So a new rope five years from manufacture; a nine year old rope never used, out of storage will have one year usable life. This info. can normally be found on the bumf you gt with the rope. Those are the guidelines; you can do what you want etc.

In ropes you'll buy now, year of manufacture will be stated on the reel/bag/label and as Sam says on a coloured and sometimes, labelled strip within the core. The colour relates to year and is on a 10 year cycle.

So technically a rope can be stored in a shop for five years and still have five years normal usage.

People can/will argue the toss; remember I'm only the messenger!
 

SamT

Moderator
Re plastic strand - Thought so - cheers Rob.

This is all down to what the rope is being used for.

For personal use - its all entirely down to your own personal choice, if you know the history of the rope - then you can make your own judgement about whether you consider it usable.

However - if its been bought for club use (I'm gonna leave High access work out of this) , i.e. the club are buying it for their tackle store for its members to use, then unfortunately -  there will be an onus on that club to ensure the rope is safe as far as possible.

The most practicle way of deciding when to retire the rope from club use, is by using the combination of the manufactured on date - and a life span.

If you cannot find a manufactured on date, then Date of Purchase would have to be the next best thing.

Though it is an intersting point you've raised about the history of the rope prior to purchase.

My feeling is that rope failure is so extremely rare, and having seen the state of some insitue ropes (let along the krabs they were hung off) that have withstood a few folk jummaring up em, this issue is not going to keep me awake at night.

Do you check over your entire vehicle and inspect the brakes when you pick up the car from its MOT.

Thought not. you trust the garage - just as I trust inglesport or whomever not to sell me rope thats been sat in the shop window for 5 years.








 

ianball11

Active member
I inspect every centimeter of every rope I ever rig with bfore I go down. 
Acually that's a lie, I do check it though, to see if it's long enough.

Ian B.
 

SamT

Moderator
racingsnake said:
Hi Sam

Think you may have dreamed that one. But date of manu must be the start date.  Are you shure that is on the reel ???

D

Here we go - just got a reel the other day - there was a tag attached - once I'd looked around a bit - I found the Production No and Year - 106310 06.

This no was also printed on the real - so quite happy that this rope was manufactured in 2006.

225829537_00e96aa8a7.jpg


225829536_01d578e37c.jpg
 

Hatstand

New member
So I'm guessing that a length of rope your mate found down a mine and since used to tow his car isn't so hot for exploratory SRT....  :D
 

Les W

Active member
Hatstand said:
So I'm guessing that a length of rope your mate found down a mine and since used to tow his car isn't so hot for exploratory SRT....  :D

If it didn't break whilst towing the car it is probably quite strong ;)

Still wouldn't use it for caving though ;)
 
D

Dave H

Guest
Les W said:
If it didn't break whilst towing the car it is probably quite strong ;)
I once towed a car 3 miles on three loops of baler twine (from around bales in a stack  ::) ) larks-footed together! You just have to be carefull!
Half the countryside is held together with baler twine (ask Hughie), but I certainly wouldn't prusik on it!
 

Bob Mehew

Well-known member
Just caught up with this posting.  Any SRT rope made to BS EN 1891:1998 is required to have an external marking, an instruction leaflet and an internal marking.  The problem with the external marking and the leaflet is that the standard does not require them to be available for each length of rope sold.  So the first purchaser from a new reel of rope gets one end with an external marking as does the last purchaser from that reel.  I suspect the leaflet just gets thrown away.  The internal marking is required to have repeated at least every 1000mm and show the:

• manufacturers name,
• number of the standard (ie 1891),
• type of rope (ie A or B - Please note that a Type B rope is made to a lower spec than Type A and to quote the standard “require greater care in use”!),
• name of the materials(s) which the rope is made of, and
• year of manufacture.

So if you cut along a rope you should find a tape inside with the info on it.  The problem is that after some use of the rope, the tape has been rubbed and the letters become indistinct.  I understand that prior to 1998 some manufacturers used interior threads of different colour to indicate information; but what the information was, is unknown to me.  I also have found that exterior markings (coloured threads in the sheath) are no guide to manufacturer; I have 3 different exterior markings from one manufacture for the same type of rope!

If you are fortunate to get hold of the leaflet, then you will be dismayed to read that some the manufactures recommends a life of 5 years.  (And yes, one shop did sell me a rope which was nearly 5 years old.)  All I can say about life time for use (disregarding wear) is that Pat Schubert (President of UIAA Safety Commission) stated in an article on dynamic ropes printed in 2000 thought life times of 10 or more years were not unreasonable (see http://www.uiaa.ch/article.aspx?c=312&a=566 ).

I suspect that rope life is related to “wear” and “abuse” but I can't prove it. By “wear” I mean the elongation and relaxation that a rope undergoes when a weight is hung from it.  By “abuse” I mean damage to the sheath.  But this simplistic approach provides no neat way to include a fall, or even a heavy handed start to an abseil.  I have been mussing over setting up a fatigue test for rope which would just cycle a weight on a rope until the rope broke (like they do for metal).  But mussing is as far as I have got. 

In the mean time I am still working on seeing how ropes perform after some degree of usage with only 300 metre left to break.  Owen Clark's records from the BCA Rope Test Rig suggest that one can “wear” a rope down within a year or so without any obvious effect, other than when you test it.  Worryingly in 2005, nearly 30 percent of the ropes I tested only managed to survive 2 drops.  Clearly some cavers are taking their ropes to near their limit of performance. 

Sorry for so long a response, I must get back to preparing to take the rig to Hidden Earth and break a few meter of rope.
 

nickwilliams

Well-known member
SamT said:
Here we go - just got a reel the other day - there was a tag attached - once I'd looked around a bit - I found the Production No and Year - 106310 06.

This no was also printed on the real - so quite happy that this rope was manufactured in 2006.

How do you know this is the batch number/date? I'm not sure the number ending 06 isn't the manufacturer's part number for the label and the number ending 20804 is the batch number (probably meaning day 208 of 2004).

Nick.
 

nickwilliams

Well-known member
Bob Mehew said:
.... is that Pat Schubert (President of UIAA Safety Commission) stated in....

<pedant mode>

His name is actually Pit Schubert, not Pat Schubert.

</pedant mode>

See you on Saturday, Bob!

Nick.
 

SamT

Moderator
nickwilliams said:
How do you know this is the batch number/date? I'm not sure the number ending 06 isn't the manufacturer's part number for the label and the number ending 20804 is the batch number (probably meaning day 208 of 2004).

Nick.

Errm - cause on the label it says

"Production no & year              106310-06"

as boxed in red on the left hand picture.

Im guessing that 106310 is the Prod No. and 06 is the year.

Non?
 
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