oliverdattilo
New member
No, I actually prefer alpine rigging for most caves, particularly fixed ropes and stuff near water. You'll not catch me messing around with it on free hanging stuff though, I like my nice super long free raps.
Ropes and Crawl ways ???
- Thread starter JAshley73
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langcliffe
Well-known member
Most Alpine rigging results in free hanging pitches, and there is nothing incompatible between Alpine rigging and 'super long free raps'.
langcliffe
Well-known member
True - a very good reason to split large pitches, but I was thinking of places like Titan and GG Main Shaft which both give 'super long free raps' with Alpine rigging.
JAshley73
Active member
Why can't multiple people climb together on Alpine rigging?
Here in the 'States, that wouldn't be an issue on the stiff, low-stretch rope. Is the concern "there" over-stressing the anchors/bolts in the rock, or some kind of safety hazard of negotiating a rebelay with another climber below?
Chocolate fireguard
Active member
I don't think either of those things is a concern.
It just isn't necessary very often when big pitches are split as they frequently are here.
I have tandemed Titan 3 times when trips were running late and Whalfe Engine Shaft once.
The only problem that became clear was that if the top person is hauling a bag and using a Pantin great care is needed to stop the tackle hauling strop joining the pitch rope in the Pantin!
We decided it might be best for that person to remove the Pantin and use both feet in the footloop behind the tensioned pitch rope. But we never tried it out.
langcliffe
Well-known member
I'm not sure that anybody claimed that you couldn't.
oliverdattilo
New member
I think I misspoke as it where. I meant mostly that I prefer my pitches to not be broken up where it can be at all avoided, particularly if it isn't exploration rigging. For high traffic areas where you need to move lots of people alpine can be very useful, but besides that I prefer to leave things in such a way that midrope manouvers are minimized. For anything less than 250 feet or so, I suspect that the amount of time saved is minimal, particularly for less vertically skilled cavers. I know you don't have to break stuff up, but that seems to be a bit more of a thing in UK than the US.
andrewmcleod
Well-known member
By comparison I object to any pitch longer than about 20m as the bounce starts becoming irritating (if not really properly problematic until about 60m on 9mm) and I like having a quick 15-30 second break or whatever between the pitches.
You can use the bounce to your advantage if you synchronise your step with the bounce and save energy.
oliverdattilo
New member
I suspect part of the difference in preference is rope stretch. My rope has less than one percent stretch, it's like climbing a steel wire. I've climbed on the semi statics used in the UK before, and it kinda sucked tbh. I would suggest locating some Greenline if you ever get the chance, the stuff is life changing.
JAshley73
Active member
I certainly agree - Greenline feels fantastic. It is extremely secure feeling, especially on rigid anchors. Enough so that you can tell a noticeable difference, even rigging onto a natural, or webbing-anchor like a "wrap 3, pull-2 anchor."
andrewmcleod
Well-known member
I wouldn't fancy using it with single-bolt rebelays or tricky traverses on 8mm throughbolts or knackered old spits in dubious rock though 
there's safety in stretch...
there's safety in stretch...
PeteHall
Moderator
I'm not sure how serious this post is supposed to be, but a stretchy rope cannot create energy. Quite the opposite.
Whatever rope you use, you need to move yourself and your kit from the bottom of the pitch to the top.
In a perfect world, all your energy would be converted to gravitational potential as you ascend. However a lot of energy is lost through various inefficiencies.
Rope stretch absorbs energy, that's why we use stretchy rope, so every bit of bounce is energy being absorbed by the rope; energy's that is not propelling you upwards.
You may think the bounce is helping you, but it really isn't.
oliverdattilo
New member
Nah that's why I don't believe in single bolt rebelays.I wouldn't fancy using it with single-bolt rebelays or tricky traverses on 8mm throughbolts or knackered old spits in dubious rock though
It may not be helping you, but mistiming your step will use more energy and disrupt your "flow"
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