So who does have the paperwork?

[Cumbrian Neil]

Tonight I read the highly entertaining threads of "Are cavers illiterate?" and the tongue in cheek "Are writers crap at caving?"  I thought to pose the question/poll above.  I've personally submitted one article to Descent, which was edited, and was in no way put off by the corrections made by Chris Howes.  Mind you, he didn't completely alter what I wrote either like in the middle paragraph of Joel's piece!  If I'm in a cave with a team mate, I won't be asking him to produce a writing sample, but I would be expecting him to be competent at caving and be able to read a guidebook or survey.



CN.

 

[andymorgan]

  If I'm in a cave with a team mate, I won't be asking him to produce a writing sample, but I would be expecting him to be competent at caving and be able to read a guidebook or survey.

Exactly 

 

[SamT]

I can see where you coming from with this - but what exactly does 'paperwork' prove.

I know people with doctorates who can barely tie their own f**king shoe laces or wire a plug, but can talk all day about astro-gentics or some other such irrelevence.

I have a degree in engineering, and work in IT and you expect me to be good at spelling !!!
I can barley use a ball point pen these days, let alone read my own handwriting.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I have a degree in engineering, and work in IT .....

As do I. I think my spelling and writing skills are pretty much up to scratch. Ergo there is no connection between your writing skills and your professional skills. I don't expect you or anyone else to necessarily be good at spelling and writing, but I do expect it of myself.

 

[hoehlenforscher]

Well in the distant past I obtained a PhD in Structural Geology but had to get my thesis proof read by many mates before it was to an acceptable standard of english. Now I am an organic farmer and my sheepdogs really don't give a monkeys whether I can spell or not

 

[biffa]

I'm just starting to write my PhD thesis and it amazes me the bad standard of English that I write when I reread it. 

I know people with doctorates who can barely tie their own f**king shoe laces or wire a plug, but can talk all day about astro-gentics or some other such irrelevence.

Velcro shoes ARE the way forward!  Besides wellies don't have laces 

 

[Cumbrian Neil]

I can see where you coming from with this - but what exactly does 'paperwork' prove.

It proves absolutely nothing... there are many cavers out there who most likely went from secondary school into a trade, but have made their mark on caving in many other ways.  Some of the supposedly "intelligent" people out there have absolutely no common sense and most likely don't make good cavers in bad situations.

I've seen irate parents bitch about how their kid can't spell... my answer... they don't need to.  Spell check is a wonderful thing.

CN.

 

[ChrisJC]

I've seen irate parents bitch about how their kid can't spell... my answer... they don't need to.  Spell check is a wonderful thing.

CN.

Wrong answer. A spell check can't tell whether you've used 'your' or you're' or which there/they're/their you need. The wrong one looks very bad.

Chris.

 

[SamT]

thats a good point chris -

There are a few members of this forum who we know to be extremely dyslexic, and have over the years come up for some rather personal critisism about their spelling on the forum. "Why dont you just use the spell checker then" is always the retort. Well...

the very thing about dyslexia is that the brain is unable to distinguish between things like there/they're/their.
So a spell checker for a (true) dyslexic, is next to useless, it just provides a list of words, any of which, to a dyslexic could be right.

I quite often type stuff that I notice to be spelt incorrectly but basically cant be arsed backspacing 8 times to correct it.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Please don't let this degenerate into a 'spelling is important' argument.  As it happens, Sam, 8 backspaces is a lot more work than a single well-placed click of the mouse.

 

[graham]

I've seen irate parents bitch about how their kid can't spell... my answer... they don't need to.  Spell check is a wonderful thing.

CN.

Wrong answer. A spell check can't tell whether you've used 'your' or you're' or which there/they're/their you need. The wrong one looks very bad.

Chris.

Indeed. I know managers who, when faced with the need to reject large numbers of application forms/CVs will use poor spelling and grammar as a first level criterion. If that's poor then the rest of your brilliant details won't even be noticed.

 

[graham]

Please don't let this degenerate into a 'spelling is important' argument.  As it happens, Sam, 8 backspaces is a lot more work than a single well-placed click of the mouse.

Two mouse clicks, if you use Firefox and have the dictionary installed. One to click on the highlighted word and one to choose the correct spelling from the list of alternatives. That does not deal with Chris's issue with homophones, though.

 

[SamT]

doesnt matter how many mouse clicks it is if your dyslexic though. - that was my point.

 

[Peter Burgess]

doesnt matter how many mouse clicks it is if your dyslexic though. - that was my point.

I know. It was just an aside. BTW, I just backspaced 5 to change a lower case 'i' to 'I'. 

 

[Rhys]

I quite often type stuff that I notice to be spelt incorrectly but basically cant be arsed ... to correct it.

I think SamT may have captured part of the reason why the standard of English seems to be slipping ;-)

Rhys

 

[graham]

Doesn't matter how many mouse clicks it is if your dyslexic though. - that was my point.

That should be "you're", but then you knew that didn't you, Sam.

 

[Cumbrian Neil]

I've seen irate parents bitch about how their kid can't spell... my answer... they don't need to.  Spell check is a wonderful thing.

CN.

Wrong answer. A spell check can't tell whether you've used 'your' or you're' or which there/they're/their you need. The wrong one looks very bad.

Chris.

Agreed... but I was meaning the more common spellings that are often written wrong with letter reversals.  For instance girl written as gril or receipt and reciept.  So it may not be the wrong answer... it depends on the age and expected literacy of the individual based on theories set forth by Vigotsky or Piaget.  The kids I am talking about are in upper primary school.

CN.

 

[SamT]

I quite often type stuff that I notice to be spelt incorrectly but basically cant be arsed ... to correct it.

I think SamT may have captured part of the reason why the standard of English seems to be slipping ;-)

Rhys

yes, you're probably correct.

That should be "you're", but then you knew that didn't you, Sam.

bovvered innit thou

 

[kay]

It proves absolutely nothing... there are many cavers out there who most likely went from secondary school into a trade, but have made their mark on caving in many other ways.  Some of the supposedly "intelligent" people out there have absolutely no common sense and most likely don't make good cavers in bad situations.

CN.

Being intelligent doesn't guarantee that you're a good caver, or good at any of all sorts of other things, or even a decent person. But that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with being intelligent. One would hope that people who do not feel themselves to be highly intelligent would nevertheless be able to respect the intelligence of others, and equally that a person who considered themselves to be intelligent would respect the different skills and abilities of other people.

[quote author=SamT]

the very thing about dyslexia is that the brain is unable to distinguish between things like there/they're/their.

[/quote]

Worse than that! To a dyslexic, things that aren't even homophones can be totally indistinguishable.

 

[graham]

To a dyslexic, things that aren't even homophones can be totally indistinguishable.

However, people who cannot distinguish between such things can get extremely aerated by the differences between head lights.

and head lights

perhaps some people are just better with pictures