Stop Pot to Eureka junction- question

[Ian P]

Had a very enjoyable trip today from Lancaster Hole to County Pot.

First trip in a few years although have done numerous times in the past.

My memory of the link between bottom of Stop Pot and Eureka Junction and what I experienced didn’t match up. Just seeing if I can clarify it.

My memory was of following the water into the boulder choke, then “shuffling” on my bum along a 3ft “shelf” then dropping down into the stream for a short hands and knee crawl into the main passage to eureka junction.

This wasn’t possible as there was no way down at the end of the “bum shuffle” . Instead we had to crawl “flat out” (ish) from just before the “bum shuffle”. Nothing desperate but just not what I remember.

Anyone confirm either way.

Cheers

Picture looking down stream along the “bum shuffle”

 

[Steve Clark]

Your memory is how I remember it.

We last did it in June when it was reasonably sporting. Hands and knees on the shelf I think and then dropped down the 3ft hole and flushed through floating on my front in the stream. I don’t remember any flat out bits.

Maybe you were on the wrong shelf? I vaguely remember when you come down the stop pot boulders you can see a tighter route directly down into the water through boulders but the ‘shelf’ is around to the right and above it a bit?

 

[Steve Clark]

The CNCC route description says the shelf is against the right wall, 1m above the water.

 

[samueld]

I've certainly had a lot of trips where I've had the same experience as you, Ian. My ability to find that shelf seems to vary week-by-week!
I'm never sure if it's changed though or if I'm just taking a different route each time.

 

[Ian P]

The CNCC route description says the shelf is against the right wall, 1m above the water.

This matches the shelf I was at. Also it was very well polished.

 

[andrewmcleod]

I fairly recentlyish spent about 20 minutes trying and initially failing to find the route through here. Couldn't see the drop down because it was right in front of me! One of those things that was obvious in hindsight.

 

[Ian P]

I fairly recentlyish spent about 20 minutes trying and initially failing to find the route through here. Couldn't see the drop down because it was right in front of me! One of those things that was obvious in hindsight.

Was this at the end of the “shelf” ?

 

[cavetroll]

I recently (2 weeks ago?) went through and had a similar experience. I dropped down earlier than I remembered through a quite narrow slot - I'm not a large caver and I found it snug but not tight. I wonder if this is collective poor memory or if something has changed.

 

[andrewmcleod]

Was this at the end of the “shelf” ?

Unfortunately my memory is failing me on the exact details here (apparently was February, or possibly November when I got briefly stuck here). I would have been going from Stop Pot to Eureka Junction. I think I remember crawling into the boulder choke above the water on the rock shelf, then ending up climbing up through a hole into a space on the left (which didn't go anywhere), until eventually realising you did just drop down the apparently (but actually not) blind hole below. You wriggled slightly further on here and could either then climb out of the water on the left or stick with it though a deeper section as you left the boulder choke.

Or something like that?

CNCC description Eureka Junction -> Stop Pot (upstream):
"The finest route through here (The Sluice) involves following the left wall, staying at water level, including a low stoop in the water. In very low water, you can remain at water level all the way through, but often the final section is too low and wet, and at this point it is necessary to climb up 2m onto a rock shelf where a crawl continues along the left wall above the water. Finally, the choke is departed by scrambling over a few large boulders in the stream."

CNCC description Stop Pot -> Eureka Junction (downstream):
"Against the right wall, crawl along a rock shelf about 1m above the water for about 3-4m and then drop into the water. Continue along
the right wall, initially as a low stoop/crawl in the water, to emerge from the choke."

 

[Ian P]

Cheers Andrew.

I feel something is different here.

The picture below is at the end of the “shelf” looking back towards Stop Pot.
(You can see the torch of the other caver looking down the shelf)

There was no where I could drop down (or my much smaller companion).

Hopefully an Easegill regular will be along soon to provide some wisdom.

 

[langcliffe]

The quoted CNCC description seems accurate to me.

 

[Ian P]

The quoted CNCC description seems accurate to me.

That is how I remember it ?

Either I have missed something obvious (highly probable ) or something has changed.

 

[first-ade]

I found exactly the same thing when I went through it on Saturday, heading downstream, got into the crawl and then couldn't find the obvious hole to drop in to. I tried to push myself through one of the holes only for my shoulders to not fit. I had to get one of the others to extract me from my SRT kit so I could get back out of the hole! Followed the water down instead. I think the big diagonal boulder in the OP photo has shifted and blocked the "normal" hole. Coming out the down stream end fitted with my memory of it being the right place.

 

[flashheart]

Went through the boulder choke yesterday. As described above, the holes to the stream were pretty snug, and my companion struggled to fit through and ended up backtracking to the bedding plane crawl to the left of the choke. Being scrawny, I was able to go past the holes and do an upright squeeze past a fallen slab and exit the choke. So, there's another nice dry route, but only if you fit!

 

[snebbit]

Is the slab a new fall perhaps?

Green is where I tried to get down (the only gap that looked possible for me), a triangular slot between the slab and the trench walls, and tbf it was very close so I can imagine thinner people using that without even noticing. Yellow is the squeeze that @flashheart took. I could probably have got through at stream level under that lot, but it was fairly snug and there was a fair bit of flow to back up, and didn't want to create unnecessary drama

 

[CNCC]

Thank you everyone for sharing your experiences above.

Sod's law, after several years of perfecting our route description through the choke between Eureka Junction and Stop Pot (including several revisions over the years after successive visits by the author)... the cave just had to go and change itself

It sounds like some update to our route description would be in order, as 'The Sluice' route sounds like it may be less desirable now.

There are a few alternative routes, and the following text is taken from our descriptions:

"The alternative route through the choke, if the water levels are too high for ‘The Sluice’ is to ascend the boulders on the right on approach to the choke and to locate a wide, low bedding crawl, which is followed for some distance through the choke, emerging at stream level, with Stop Pot behind you, and a characteristic flowstone on the right with curtains; Take note of this for the return journey as it is easily missed."

Alternatively, the wet weather route...

"... it is possible to go up Wretched Rabbit passage for ~60m to locate the awkward climb up into Four Ways Chamber, just before the walking passage degenerates into a bedding crawl. Climb 4m up into the chamber, slither over a slab to get to the back end of the chamber and take a low crawling passage on the right for about 30m; this provides a high-level route, emerging into Stop Pot half way up the boulders, and avoiding Eureka Junction and the streamway altogether."

Firstly, we'd appreciate any feedback on these two alternative routes. They are presented only as 'alternatives' in our description (with the main focus being on The Sluice) so they have not been given quite the same attention to detail in the route description. We'd love to try to refine the description of these alternatives a little. Please post here or PM us if you feel you can help refine the way we describe these alternatives.

Secondly, do you feel The Sluice route merits remaining in our description? Perhaps it is still passable entirely at water level in very low water, and by the sounds of it, by very thin cavers who can squeeze around the new obstruction? Thoughts welcome.

For now, there's a warning on our website for each of the major entrances about this change.

 

[samueld]

From my recent trips I'd say the sluice route warrants remaining; it's still passable in normal conditions as long as you don't mind getting quite wet. If you do mind, the route on the right is fine

 

[Fulk]

Climb 4m up into the chamber,

I feel that this gives somewhat the wrong impression of the route; sure, you do climb up into Four-Ways, but it's by ascending a sloping tube (in the downstream direction) rather than . . .well, climbing up a wall or a pile of rocks (assuming I'm thinking of the right place).

 

[langcliffe]

I feel that this gives somewhat the wrong impression of the route; sure, you do climb up into Four-Ways, but it's by ascending a sloping tube (in the downstream direction) rather than . . .well, climbing up a wall or a pile of rocks (assuming I'm thinking of the right place).

Depends on which of the two routes one is using! The one in the CNCC description is a few metres downstream, just beyond the corner.

 

[Fulk]

Oh, sorry I didn't know about that one.