Suicide Cave, Winnats Pass
- Thread starter DCA
- Start date
sjt said "The people in question have travelled to the cave with paint to do the spraying, which seems more calculating than your average Speedwell tourist getting caught short."
I'd question this. I suspect these are people who just carry spray cans wherever they go and tag any surface where they think they won't be spotted doing the deed. These people also liberally spray the entrance passages of Giants Hole (which is another well known site from social media), and DCA regularly removes these tags as well. But they will spray any surface they can, as long as they think they won't get caught doing it.
I'd question this. I suspect these are people who just carry spray cans wherever they go and tag any surface where they think they won't be spotted doing the deed. These people also liberally spray the entrance passages of Giants Hole (which is another well known site from social media), and DCA regularly removes these tags as well. But they will spray any surface they can, as long as they think they won't get caught doing it.
My point stands.
I reckon the solution is therefore to disseminate the legend that it's called Suicide Cave because it's the fk off hardest place about.
The barely made it out alive brigade will flock to it like flies & turn it into the Lascaux of Castleton, and everywhere else will get left in peace!
Unless of course the NT want to create exclusive caver access, then give us a load of scaff & permission to energetically remove bits of the choke to look for a low level continuation to Treak.
Otherwise I think you're just trading litter picking for gate maintenance in terms of demand on volunteer time for what is essentially an abandoned dig.
I give it a week before someone takes a hammer or grinder to it, whether an offended caver or an urbexer.
I write this with the lens of someone who, like others above, found caving by wandering into an entrance in Castleton.
It's tempting to take the piss out of the bloke in the video shared earlier, but look how much enjoyment they're getting out of being in somewhere most cavers wouldn't bother with.
Mark Wright
Well-known member
I'd also be interested to know what 'pressure' the NT are now applying to DCA to do something. What is their immediate concern?
It's unusual for organisations like the NT to be pressuring anyone to actually spend their money for them, unless it was a serious health and safety issue. I wouldn't have thought a bit of harmless graffiti, some litter and a few smelly turds was that much of an issue. The used needles might be an issue but how regularly are these found?
Phil's suggestion of a nearby rubbish bin is a good one. I don't see anything problematic about ownership. With well over 5.3 million members paying over £100 a year, the NT should pay for it, own it and empty it.
I was one of those Sunday 'day trippers' when I first went in Suicide Cave. Whilst I might have managed walking from Castleton to Suicide and back without needing a toilet in 1978, these days, definitely not. You get to a certain age when you should never walk past a toilet, or something vaguely resembling one. It's obviously people like me who are at least causing part of the problem. I was out mountain biking today with a couple of cavers and we all got 'caught short' at Hope Cross and on Rushup Edge.
As for gates, walls or large lumps of limestone, they would all likely result in the turds, used needles and other rubbish being simply moved forward to where small children are much more likely to come across them.
A gate would almost certainly end up covered in graffiti and then you would probably be able to see it from the road!! I've just done a drive past on google to check. As Jenny says, the spray can taggers will spray any surface they can, e.g., a gate. It's their hobby. I bet they think we are the weirdos. As a regular user of the Winnats, I like the look of Suicide Cave as it is.
A gate of any sort, for whatever reason, is never going to be a good, first introduction to caving. It certainly wouldn't have been for me and clearly many others on here.
When I read, 'vandalised to this extent', it conjures up an image which is very very different to what I saw in Shano's video and Phil's photographs. It certainly wouldn't have put me off exploring further.
I think Shano's video was great and I hope they go on exploring. I'm just thankful the internet wasn't around in 1978.
I think the answer to the supposed problem is simple, leave it as it is and suggest to the NT that they invest in a new sign explaining what the chains are for, and a rubbish bin.
It's unusual for organisations like the NT to be pressuring anyone to actually spend their money for them, unless it was a serious health and safety issue. I wouldn't have thought a bit of harmless graffiti, some litter and a few smelly turds was that much of an issue. The used needles might be an issue but how regularly are these found?
Phil's suggestion of a nearby rubbish bin is a good one. I don't see anything problematic about ownership. With well over 5.3 million members paying over £100 a year, the NT should pay for it, own it and empty it.
I was one of those Sunday 'day trippers' when I first went in Suicide Cave. Whilst I might have managed walking from Castleton to Suicide and back without needing a toilet in 1978, these days, definitely not. You get to a certain age when you should never walk past a toilet, or something vaguely resembling one. It's obviously people like me who are at least causing part of the problem. I was out mountain biking today with a couple of cavers and we all got 'caught short' at Hope Cross and on Rushup Edge.
As for gates, walls or large lumps of limestone, they would all likely result in the turds, used needles and other rubbish being simply moved forward to where small children are much more likely to come across them.
A gate would almost certainly end up covered in graffiti and then you would probably be able to see it from the road!! I've just done a drive past on google to check. As Jenny says, the spray can taggers will spray any surface they can, e.g., a gate. It's their hobby. I bet they think we are the weirdos. As a regular user of the Winnats, I like the look of Suicide Cave as it is.
A gate of any sort, for whatever reason, is never going to be a good, first introduction to caving. It certainly wouldn't have been for me and clearly many others on here.
When I read, 'vandalised to this extent', it conjures up an image which is very very different to what I saw in Shano's video and Phil's photographs. It certainly wouldn't have put me off exploring further.
I think Shano's video was great and I hope they go on exploring. I'm just thankful the internet wasn't around in 1978.
I think the answer to the supposed problem is simple, leave it as it is and suggest to the NT that they invest in a new sign explaining what the chains are for, and a rubbish bin.
Mrs Trellis
Well-known member
How about two Portaloos at the entrance? Obviously there might be problems with long queues for the Ladies - but an Alton Towers type queue arrangement could be provided.A large rubbish bin could surely be installed somewhere nearby, given the footfall there. Regularly emptied of course. It could even have a needle bin incorporated
Who would 'own' it though could be problematic.
2xw
Well-known member
Strongly agree with Chris.
Poo, graffiti and litter do not damage the cave in the long term. They are functionally aesthetic issues.
Gating it definitely does damage the cave, and it certainly damages the life that lives inside of it, forever.
The national trust are a massive wealthy landowner who are responsible for that cave, and cavers money and time should not be used to allow them to shirk that responsibility (I would be softer on this if it were a local small landowner)
Poo, graffiti and litter do not damage the cave in the long term. They are functionally aesthetic issues.
Gating it definitely does damage the cave, and it certainly damages the life that lives inside of it, forever.
The national trust are a massive wealthy landowner who are responsible for that cave, and cavers money and time should not be used to allow them to shirk that responsibility (I would be softer on this if it were a local small landowner)
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