Swinsto Hole Pull Through
- Thread starter ianball11
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hoehlenforscher
Guest
Havent done it for years but was one of my all time faves and I have done it many times. I remember my first attempt that it is a bit confusing when you reach the main collector and you need to be a bit of a fair climber to safely climb the pitch to gain the valley entrance passage. I think many peolpe aquaint themselves of the valley entrance section first so you know what to aim for at the end of the pitchs in swinstos. Some even advocate going into valley and dropping a ladder down the pitch for when you come out but I never found this a necessity. The last time I did this trip they were trying to lower the water levels in Valley entrance which was a shame as the oil drum axit with the duck was on e of the highlights of the trip for me.
BTW for the sake of a bit of extra weight I would advocate taking a spare 60 foot rope in a tackle sake just in case. I have friends who failed to retreive a rope of the big pitch and had to tie all their cows tails, show laces, helmet straps etc together to make a hand line to get down the next pitch safely!!!!
BTW for the sake of a bit of extra weight I would advocate taking a spare 60 foot rope in a tackle sake just in case. I have friends who failed to retreive a rope of the big pitch and had to tie all their cows tails, show laces, helmet straps etc together to make a hand line to get down the next pitch safely!!!!
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MSD
Guest
It's a great trip.
I fully agree with Hoehlenforschers advice. Take 2 ropes. Apart from guarding against getting the rope stuck, it also means you can rig both halves of the big pitch. The ledge half-way down is one of the most miserable places on earth! Doing the whole of the big pitch in one hang is not advisable, because (a) you will get wetter and (b) there is more chance of getting the rope stuck. A pair of 40-45m ropes is the ideal tackle.
Route finding is easy, provided you have the right cave (don't abseil into Turbary Pot by mistake!) After the water from Simpsons comes in there is one short cascade into Swnsto Great Aven. At this point go down through the boulders (to the left facing back up the pitch) and then follow the obvious passage on. If it gets very low and wet, you are going the wrong way. Once you can hear the rumble of the master cave, you can't get lost. Follow the stream to the sump and the pitch up.
There is often a dodgy bit of SRT rope on the pitch up into the roof tunnel (there was the other week anyway). Whether you trust this is up to you. If you climb the pitch, climb up the far side of the pitch (in the alcove away from the stream), followed by a bold step across to reach safety. I don't find this a particularly hard climb, the secret is to choose the right place to start climbing in the first place.
Above the pitch you follow the obvious passage most of the way. There is just one critical junction where you turn to the left (the passage to the right goes to Toyland and Carrot Passage).
Obviously this is not a trip to do in wet weather. If the cave floods, the best place to sit it out is Swinsto Great Aven. Alternatively you can find the start of the bolted traverse which takes you above the entire streamway. You can sit out a reasonable flood here or even make your way along the traverse to safety.
Mark
I fully agree with Hoehlenforschers advice. Take 2 ropes. Apart from guarding against getting the rope stuck, it also means you can rig both halves of the big pitch. The ledge half-way down is one of the most miserable places on earth! Doing the whole of the big pitch in one hang is not advisable, because (a) you will get wetter and (b) there is more chance of getting the rope stuck. A pair of 40-45m ropes is the ideal tackle.
Route finding is easy, provided you have the right cave (don't abseil into Turbary Pot by mistake!) After the water from Simpsons comes in there is one short cascade into Swnsto Great Aven. At this point go down through the boulders (to the left facing back up the pitch) and then follow the obvious passage on. If it gets very low and wet, you are going the wrong way. Once you can hear the rumble of the master cave, you can't get lost. Follow the stream to the sump and the pitch up.
There is often a dodgy bit of SRT rope on the pitch up into the roof tunnel (there was the other week anyway). Whether you trust this is up to you. If you climb the pitch, climb up the far side of the pitch (in the alcove away from the stream), followed by a bold step across to reach safety. I don't find this a particularly hard climb, the secret is to choose the right place to start climbing in the first place.
Above the pitch you follow the obvious passage most of the way. There is just one critical junction where you turn to the left (the passage to the right goes to Toyland and Carrot Passage).
Obviously this is not a trip to do in wet weather. If the cave floods, the best place to sit it out is Swinsto Great Aven. Alternatively you can find the start of the bolted traverse which takes you above the entire streamway. You can sit out a reasonable flood here or even make your way along the traverse to safety.
Mark
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tubby two
Guest
Is it a p-bolted traverse, and where does it start? I assume it gets you into the valley entrance passage? Is it just a case of keep rigging traverses, sitting on a bolt whilst someone derigs, then get rigging along again? In which case, how far is it to traverse!?!
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Andy Sparrow
Active member
MSD said:
Not to be confused with the right way, which is low and wet.
There's an easy way of getting up the pitch - throw a rope over the rock bridge - attach one end to a human belay and prusik up the other. Obviously it's not exactly your freehanging SRT pitch but it works OK. From the bridge it's just one easy mantleshelf move to the top.
Never tried it, there are some p-bolts floating around just across from the pitch though..
I've got a rigging topo for it and it shows lots of rope and bolts (~30 inc. wire traverse) :roll:
As for Swinsto, route finding is fine.. As others have said, its worth taking at least one full-SRT kit and a spare rope!
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MSD
Guest
It's pretty easy to spot the bolts where the traverse starts.
I think the subtle distinction between "very low and wet" and "low and wet" is easy to make on the spot. If the passage is flat-out and almost full of water, you are not going the right way, but are probably heading down something nasty like philosophers crawl. If on the other hand, it's just a bit of damp crawling, you are likely to be on the right track.
Never thought of the trick of throwing the rope over. A hybrid technique would be to throw a rope over and use it to lifeline, either prussiking up the dodgy bit of tat or free climbing.
Mark
I think the subtle distinction between "very low and wet" and "low and wet" is easy to make on the spot. If the passage is flat-out and almost full of water, you are not going the right way, but are probably heading down something nasty like philosophers crawl. If on the other hand, it's just a bit of damp crawling, you are likely to be on the right track.
Never thought of the trick of throwing the rope over. A hybrid technique would be to throw a rope over and use it to lifeline, either prussiking up the dodgy bit of tat or free climbing.
Mark
beardedboy
Member
Yeah, I think you need about 150m of rope for the traverse, However if there is a couple of you, you can get away with a 25m and a hand-full of maillons/krabs. The person at the back simply de-riggs the traverse and passes the end of the rope and the maillons forward to keep rigging.
It's an interesting trip on it's own!
As for Swinsto, yeah, the route finding is easy and take two ropes as everyone says. However, it is also really important to take knee pads for the long (250m ish) crawl between the first & second pitch!
It's an interesting trip on it's own!
As for Swinsto, yeah, the route finding is easy and take two ropes as everyone says. However, it is also really important to take knee pads for the long (250m ish) crawl between the first & second pitch!
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MSD
Guest
AndyF said:
Sigh, I'm never going to live that one down.
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hoehlenforscher
Guest
A great way to do swinstos we found was to take a team of 6 and split into 2 groups of 3 each with a rope. As soon as the first 3 people have dropped the first pitch (which is not far into the cave) they take off with the spare rope and rig the next pitch when they get to it. By the time they have all descended the 2nd pitch the first group (who are trying to prove they are just as fit as the first group ) will have caught up with them and can throw the tackle bag down with the spare rope from 1st pitch. So the game continues. There is almost no standing around at pitches waiting and the whole party progresses through the cave a a rate of knots meaning more time in the Martin Arms
Not that I condone speed caving but it is a great trip and one I have the fondest memories of....
) will have caught up with them and can throw the tackle bag down with the spare rope from 1st pitch. So the game continues. There is almost no standing around at pitches waiting and the whole party progresses through the cave a a rate of knots meaning more time in the Martin Arms Not that I condone speed caving but it is a great trip and one I have the fondest memories of....
cap n chris
Well-known member
I led our trip here and don't remember there being any route finding problems at all. Yes wear kneepads, yes take ascending gear JIC, yes take two ropes. BTW we rigged Valley with a ladder but the climb did look do-able. We spent a while on the big ledge while sussing out that the ropes had crossed over at the top, holding them fast for a while but it was sorted with a big whipper loop manoeuvre (by me!). Enjoy!.... Come to think of it, you probably couldn't do anything other than enjoy it!
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twllddu
Guest
MSD said:AndyF said:
Sigh, I'm never going to live that one down.
No
Just a few things to add....
It can be quite a chilly experience, depending on water levels, particularly around the big pitch area so it might be prudent to beef up your clothing a little.
The best positioned bolts for the second part of the big pitch are hidden away around the corner to the right as you look at it. They allow a much drier hang than the more obvious bolts that you can see straight in front of you.
Depending on how many of you there are to carry I would suggest having a couple of shorter ropes (20m?) as well as the two longer ones - some of the pitches are quite short and it saves on faff time. You can also use them for safety lines when approaching pitch heads and pull-through anchors. For some reason the rope tends to be a pig to pull down on the first of the big pitches, though it is difficult to see why. Maybe I've just had bad luck!
The pitch up into the Roof Tunnel has Eco bolts which you can use to protect yourself with cowstails so you can make the climb fairly safe by a number of different options as people have mentioned. The move off the ground is the hardest if you are going for the climbing option. It takes less than 10 mins each way to the pitch head from Valley Entrance so it would be an easy job to go and inspect it for peace of mind.
I know of several people having route-finding difficulties from the bottom of the Great Aven, and taking a long time to find the way out! It seems pretty simple to me though, just useful to be aware!
Have fun!!
It can be quite a chilly experience, depending on water levels, particularly around the big pitch area so it might be prudent to beef up your clothing a little.
The best positioned bolts for the second part of the big pitch are hidden away around the corner to the right as you look at it. They allow a much drier hang than the more obvious bolts that you can see straight in front of you.
Depending on how many of you there are to carry I would suggest having a couple of shorter ropes (20m?) as well as the two longer ones - some of the pitches are quite short and it saves on faff time. You can also use them for safety lines when approaching pitch heads and pull-through anchors. For some reason the rope tends to be a pig to pull down on the first of the big pitches, though it is difficult to see why. Maybe I've just had bad luck!
The pitch up into the Roof Tunnel has Eco bolts which you can use to protect yourself with cowstails so you can make the climb fairly safe by a number of different options as people have mentioned. The move off the ground is the hardest if you are going for the climbing option. It takes less than 10 mins each way to the pitch head from Valley Entrance so it would be an easy job to go and inspect it for peace of mind.
I know of several people having route-finding difficulties from the bottom of the Great Aven, and taking a long time to find the way out! It seems pretty simple to me though, just useful to be aware!
Have fun!!
T
tubby two
Guest
Yes, i remember going in to look for some people who seemed to be taking a long time only to find them wandering round looking for the main streamway, they'd been looking for it for nearly 2 hours!
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pisshead
New member
Hammy said:
we did it in two groups as mentioned above - i think we were all in wetsuits - then you don't really have to worry so much about how wet/cold you get
makes wading around in valley entrance more pleasant too
(and yes i know you don't have to do the deep bit - but it seems a shame not to while you're so close)
chriscastle46
Member
By coincidence I've just returned from the Dales today on a Cheddar CC visit and we did Swinsto before setting off. No problems except a bit of paranoia about being in Simpson's by mistake (first visit for many years) but recognised the Long Crawl, which is fairly distinctive! Low water levels simplified the rigging. Bits of tat around which need to be regarded with suspicion.
