Teaching / Trying SRT...

[JAshley73]

Seeking wisdom here. I have a friend that went on a rather tough-for-beginners through-trip recently, who ate it up. He's a stud honestly. Great physical shape, enjoys backpacking, outdoors, etc. I think he would enjoy vertical caving too, and he's interested in it.

I'd like for him to try it out, and see if there's enough desire there for him to take a proper class.

I have a practice rope setup at my house. I have a rope rigged into the attic in my garage, that lets me practice changeovers, etc. It's a nice space to practice/rehearse the basics, and a ladder is always at-hand to get someone down.

This is where I need your wisdom.

I know of a nearby park with a roughly 40-foot waterfall, and the thought crossed my mind today that it would be a decent spot to "practice" outdoors. Assuming there is a belayer on the bottom to weigh the rope, and someone at the top to assist. This would be a single pitch, with plenty of space at the top and bottom. Not too terribly far to hike from the top to the bottom either - 1/4 mile perhaps.

Any reason not to bring a friend here to try rappelling? I figure that an outside area is a much safer place to try and practice rappelling, and in a cave. I can probably get a seasoned SRT veteran to join us as well if need be.

Thanks in advance.

I could

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Don't want to sound irresponsible but why a formal class? If he's on a safety rope and *if* both ropes are releasable (like anchored with a tied off munter/Italian hitch) and twice as long as needed with excess in a bag, that way no matter what happens even near the top, you could controlled lower him to the ground.

Start him off by ascending 3 foot (no more so he's in range of you still) and doing a changeover to descending - and descend/rappel down 3 foot. Probably a bobbin device at that point That's how everyone learns. Then if he can do that, try getting him to rappel from the top on a rack with a safety rope.

Why do you think you can't do the same as some official class? Is this where I (with good natured intention) tease you about Americans wanting official classes and certificates in everything? For example the belayers certificate in climbing, which is viewed with both amusement and horror by climbers outside of the US. Or PADI who want to sell "Boat diver" speciality

Definitely agree about learning in open areas not underground!

 

[Badlad]

I've taught a few folks SRT including a friend's 13 year old son. Best to teach the techniques in a shed or some such place first to a point they can complete manoeuvres without prompt. Then I'd take them to an easy cave in a small competent team where you can see them get on the rope, pass any obstacles and land safely at the bottom.

 

[JAshley73]

Don't want to sound irresponsible but why a formal class? If he's on a safety rope and *if* both ropes are releasable (like anchored with a tied off munter/Italian hitch) and twice as long as needed with excess in a bag, that way no matter what happens even near the top, you could controlled lower him to the ground.

Start him off by ascending 3 foot (no more so he's in range of you still) and doing a changeover to descending - and descend/rappel down 3 foot. Probably a bobbin device at that point That's how everyone learns. Then if he can do that, try getting him to rappel from the top on a rack with a safety rope.

Why do you think you can't do the same as some official class? Is this where I (with good natured intention) tease you about Americans wanting official classes and certificates in everything? For example the belayers certificate in climbing, which is viewed with both amusement and horror by climbers outside of the US. Or PADI who want to sell "Boat diver" speciality

Definitely agree about learning in open areas not underground!

So I learned from a 'formal' class, meaning, taught by competent SRT veterans, legal waivers by the non-profit, but no 'certification' at the end. It's funny that you mention the certifications. I'm learning that is a thing in the rock-climbing world, but sure as hell not in the caving world here. (Though they do give you a handy little card that you can laminate if you so wish, for cave-rescue courses... LOL)

I would certainly not be giving a formal class however. I have full confidence in my garage setup as a training aid, but I take it that you're suggesting to just skip that, and go right to the outdoor space? Start from the bottom - changeover - rappell - then go to the top and rappell?

I could certainly rig the top side with an Italian-hitch, to lower him. Decent idea.

We learned on full J-frame racks, but I do have a Petzl Stop that I could start him on too.

 

[Steve Clark]

I’ve not been caving long and I’m far from an expert, but few things to consider :

I think it’s really important to teach the STOP/SIMPLE correct loading, lock-offs and test abseil with cow's tails first and to a point where they can do it flawlessly. This can be done practically anywhere. Start on the floor and then on a chair. As someone following just following others rigging this is the most dangerous part of vertical caving. The ‘single’ part of SRT.

There are really good facilities at the YSS that you can just book for a couple of quid. You can do laps on the ladder-abseil platform. Anyone competent can book the wall. If you’re not feeling confident/competent enough to book and instruct here, perhaps you shouldn’t be doing it at all.

There’s a really good ramp in Storrs Quarry that can be used for various angle abseils. Loads of bolts. You can teach the whole traverse and abseil process here. Nothing vertical or free-hanging enough to ascend though.

I’ve used the overhanging Red Wall at Trowbarrow to set up a rolling rope for ascending practice. Effectively a top rope belayed at the base to a tree. With enough rope you can just lower them back down to the ground. The YSS walls has this facility pre-rigged too.

You can go abseil the waterfall in Yordas. That’s easy to rig, quite exciting and you can walk out the bottom.

Hammer and Mud pitches in lost johns are easy rigging and straight drops. They need to be able to ascend though.

Consider the use of a safety rope for abseiling. Alternative is to use an extra long pitch rope and you can hold and feed out the dead side from the pitch head. Very effective if they’re using a braking crab.

 

[tdobson]

Just want to commend your attitude JAsheley73. There's plenty of good advice here, and likely to be more, that is worth listening and reading through, and the fact you're asking these questions, asking detailed followups and reflecting the best way to do this says a lot [of good things] about your outlook. Keep doing those things

 

[LadyMud]

There are really good facilities at the YSS that you can just book for a couple of quid.

A bit far for them to travel, I think - but excellent advice for UK cavers.