The Big Questions?

[Lankyman]

Humanity has pondered the mysterious and impenetrable for thousands of years since the dawn of time. What lies over those hills? Does God exist? If I throw a bone into the sky will it turn into a spaceship? Since this is a caving forum let's concentrate on caves and the unknown. For many cavers it's the lure of what lies beyond that inspires and motivates the most. It was certainly that way for me when I was an active caver and I still find the accounts of digging and discovery far and away the most fascinating feature of UKC. So what do you think are the big problems that are outstanding? What fantastic caverns of the imagination are still out of reach? One such for me was what must lie under Wild Boar Fell, especially the Angerholme Pots whose waters flow right under the mountain and resurge in a completely different valley. I had a few visits in the seventies and eighties and recall dark, sharp rock and everything pinching out. One day we'd find a way into the WBF Master Cave ...

 

[Mark Wright]

Why is the hydrology of the Speedwell System so complicated, particularly the changing associations between Main Rising, Whirlpool Rising and Russet Well?

We may have some answers to this at the end of next month when the Badgers pump out the Rowter Hole Sump again and head into the unknown?

I keep telling myself that we were only a couple of trips away from a major discovery at the bottom of Eldon Hole. Following the discovery of Iron Age human bones and a visit to the site by Hysterical England and the Cave Archeology Group 4 years ago, what they wanted us to do to be able to keep on digging was ridiculously impractical, resulting in the whole project grinding to a halt. Just what I told my fellow diggers would happen if they insisted on reporting our find.

 

[Lankyman]

Why is the hydrology of the Speedwell System so complicated, particularly the changing associations between Main Rising, Whirlpool Rising and Russet Well?

We may have some answers to this at the end of next month when the Badgers pump out the Rowter Hole Sump again and head into the unknown?

I keep telling myself that we were only a couple of trips away from a major discovery at the bottom of Eldon Hole. Following the discovery of Iron Age human bones and a visit to the site by Hysterical England and the Cave Archeology Group 4 years ago, what they wanted us to do to be able to keep on digging was ridiculously impractical, resulting in the whole project grinding to a halt. Just what I told my fellow diggers would happen if they insisted on reporting our find.

Yes, the eternal conundrum about balancing the quest for discovery with preserving irreplaceable knowledge about our past. I was just listening to a podcast about the Sutton Hoo burial and how remarkable it is that anything survived the activities of past treasure hunters and antiquarians. I used to live in Warton and there are several sites where caving exploration has been halted because of the archaeology.

 

[JAshley73]

Well, being from the USA, I'm sure none here would know the cave(s) described. But a close relative owns a small cave in close proximity to a 17-mile mapped cave. In the summer time it blows enough air to bend the grass near the entrance. In the wintertime, it pulls a draft enough to ice the entrance, and empty a smoke-filled room in just a few minutes.

But where the hell does all of that air go...? So far, we haven't found a way.

The worst part is the 80 minute drive to get there...

 

[Lankyman]

The worst part is the 80 minute drive to get there...

I thought that was considered just around the corner in the States ... ?

 

[shotlighter]

For me its Lumb Hole in Cressbrooke Dale. We made some resonable advances in the early 90s but still dont know how all that water has gets there. Must be somthing big to found ....?

 

[JAshley73]

I thought that was considered just around the corner in the States ... ?

Haha... On a weekend it's not bad, but it makes for a late night if we tried to go after work.

 

[ChrisJC]

I am most interested in the master cave yet to be found under Esclusham Mountain (Ogof Dydd Byraf and friends).

Chris.

 

[Lankyman]

For me its Lumb Hole in Cressbrooke Dale. We made some resonable advances in the early 90s but still dont know how all that water has gets there. Must be somthing big to found ....?

I'm not familiar with the area. Are there no obvious sinks or has any water tracing been done? I'd imagine in an area as intensively studied as the Peak that something like that would have been tried.

 

[The Old Ruminator]

Well Quarter Way Up Cave ( see Mendip thread ) has great potential if the signs are read correctly. After over 60 years digging caves I ought to know what they are by now. You do get an intuition but of course it cant be right all of the time. Anyway at age 78 finds are no longer the motive. Its a day out to my gym, my social club, my escape from reality . Its also a challenge as I am continually coming up with ideas that are often quite impractical. Then of course the photos. My mission to bombard the world with them continues apace. I take photos now for fun and education. Also to show it is really quite easy hoping others will follow. Also to pull people away from the usual format .The formulaic. The shots that are on Google Image hundreds of times over. Long may it all continue.

 

[pwhole]

Personally I'm hopeful that a fairly large system exists under Bradwell Moor, judging by the number of sinkholes that predominate up there, many in a 'delta' shape, suggesting choked swallets. There are known natural sections in all the mines that penetrate it, and we've found layered sediments in phreatic cave 70m down a mine, and scalloped and fluted walls too in another section. Drainage may all go to Bagshawe, but I doubt it.

 

[Lankyman]

Well Quarter Way Up Cave ( see Mendip thread ) has great potential if the signs are read correctly. After over 60 years digging caves I ought to know what they are by now. You do get an intuition but of course it cant be right all of the time. Anyway at age 78 finds are no longer the motive. Its a day out to my gym, my social club, my escape from reality . Its also a challenge as I am continually coming up with ideas that are often quite impractical. Then of course the photos. My mission to bombard the world with them continues apace. I take photos now for fun and education. Also to show it is really quite easy hoping others will follow. Also to pull people away from the usual format .The formulaic. The shots that are on Google Image hundreds of times over. Long may it all continue.

I've followed your digging exploits with interest since first joining the site a few years ago. The club I was in for many years (Lancashire-based) used to have an annual Mendips trip every Easter weekend. As a wet-behind-the-ears teen I was thoroughly sabotaged on my first visit by a bottomless glass of cider but did enjoy some fantastic caving. One thing that struck me was how determined the locals were to dig, dig and dig over decades to make the breakthrough.

 

[RobinGriffiths]

A bit fanciful perhaps - but I wonder if there's anything under the summit farm area of the Great Orme. It forms a semi enclosed bowl with exit to the north down a gully to the sea (from which gurgling noises have been noted when very wet) to the sea.

 

[Lankyman]

A bit fanciful perhaps - but I wonder if there's anything under the summit farm area of the Great Orme. It forms a semi enclosed bowl with exit to the north down a gully to the sea (from which gurgling noises have been noted when very wet) to the sea.

Are there any 'proper' caves on Great Orme? I went on the little tourist boat from the beach back in the summer and saw what looked like sea caves. There's nothing wrong with 'fanciful' wondering. I'm sure it's probably led to quite a few discoveries.

 

[Alex]

Some of my friends wonder does a cave exist until it's explored, does the new cave you are surveying form itself for the first explorer. If so who's best to send in-front?

 

[langcliffe]

Some of my friends wonder does a cave exist until it's explored, does the new cave you are surveying form itself for the first explorer. If so who's best to send in-front?

Shroedinger's Cave!

 

[mrodoc]

What happens upstream of the diver's cave in Gough's Cave and related to that what happened to the dry relict passages that must continue up the gorge?There are segments at high level eg Great Oone's Hole but nothing further up so has the gorge eroded them away or are they still there?
Then there is the tantalising prospect of reaching the main stream cave from Reservoir Hole upstream of the huge collapse that is the Frozen Deep. The lowest passages flood in very wet weather probably from back up under TFD but in dry conditions there is a faint draught in both Potter's Heaven and Jill's Slither. Both are diggable but the conditions are unpleasant - although we did make a start.

 

[JAA]

Where are the big fossil passages that must exist under east kingsdale somewhere in the middle of the bench….

 

[The Old Ruminator]

Mr O' Doc is correct about the siting of Reservoir Hole. Magic Smoke Dig was following a scalloped wall down to more ancient parts of TFD. As for a relict continuation at high level I begin to doubt that now as the gorge has carved it away truncating the main conduit at High Country. The Silo ended under the road. I picked up a sandstone water worn rock in there indicating a past open way down from the gorge.

 

[shotlighter]

I'm not familiar with the area. Are there no obvious sinks or has any water tracing been done? I'd imagine in an area as intensively studied as the Peak that something like that would have been tried.

The cave drains the Longstone Edge area and there was no access at the time we were digging. Im not aware if anything has been done recently and Im afraid that age and rhumatoid arthritus have ended my digging activities. Up to later generation now but Im still interested .