Trip suggestion please: Novice SRT locations

[Cantclimbtom]

Trip suggestion in Castleton area please

If someone was an SRT novice, they'd been taken to a tree a long while back and got to the point they could ascend/descend/changeover with verbal prompts - knowledge probably forgotten but it proves they can follow instructions. They also once descended/ascended Garlands but found the ascent tiring.

So.. planning to taken them to the new SRT practice pitch over at Gautries. If that was followed by an easy cave trip with very easy SRT what are the options? Points for it *not* being Giants as they've been there before. There would only be the 2 of us so any pitches with deviations would need deviation to be optional or very near start (so I could jug back up again) as I'd want to supervise them getting on the rope with a stop, which means they need to descend first. I'd excluded Eldon hole on that basis.

If you exclude Giants, what's the logical choice for a taste of simpler SRT, P8? (maybe damp entrance will deter them??) Anything else in that immediate area for novices I should consider?

 

[mch]

Does it have to be Castleton area? Carlswark is an easy through trip - SRT down Eyam Dale Shaft and out the Gin entrance. Further afield there's Devonshire at Matlock Bath - a couple of pitches rigged in there, a short one and longer one with a deviation on the opposite side of the main chamber. Just a couple of thoughts off the top of my head.

 

[wellyjen]

The Swallet entrance of Snelslow. Can be rigged with a deviation, close to the belay for the main shaft hang. All pitches, you can be close to them for the take off. Ideally, you want another experienced person to keep an eye on them at the ends of each pitch. Probably a bit too much if they were exhausted climbing Garlands.

Suicide Cave has some good practice pitches in it. Short and easy to instruct from. One I've used myself. You can set up rebelays and deviations.

Pindale End Mine. Two surface shafts, one of which is a simple hang.

Bagshawe Cavern. Dungeon pitch, though the bottom is probably flooded at the moment.

 

[pwhole]

Bear in mind that if you go down the lower of the two Pindale End shafts (the one with the climbing steps), you have to crawl under this lot to get into the mine proper. This is on the wrong side of it, and the shaft base is through that small dark hole. Just so you know

 

[Pete K]

If you're at Gautries crag anyway, walk along to P8 after. Chuck an old waterproof coat over your oversuit for the entrance to keep the worst of the water off.
Climb up just before Idiot's Leap and there is a lovely simple 8m pitch in the roof that drops you to the foot of Idiot's.
1st pitch done straight down in low water is also really straightforward.

NB, I would not say the Gautries pitch is totally ideal for novices. You do sort of need to pass a rebelay on the steep slope to reach the pitch head, otherwise it needs rigging with a steep traverse with lots of butterflies to clip to, otherwise it's a big slide onto a boulder if you lose your footing.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Bear in mind that if you go down the lower of the two Pindale End shafts (the one with the climbing steps), you have to crawl under this lot to get into the mine proper. This is on the wrong side of it, and the shaft base is through that small dark hole. Just so you know

View attachment 25474

Thanks for the warning.
That picture greatly tempts me to make a trip but I think it'd be a complete "No" for the trainee

 

[Cantclimbtom]

If you're at Gautries crag anyway, walk along to P8 after. Chuck an old waterproof coat over your oversuit for the entrance to keep the worst of the water off.
Climb up just before Idiot's Leap and there is a lovely simple 8m pitch in the roof that drops you to the foot of Idiot's.
1st pitch done straight down in low water is also really straightforward.

NB, I would not say the Gautries pitch is totally ideal for novices. You do sort of need to pass a rebelay on the steep slope to reach the pitch head, otherwise it needs rigging with a steep traverse with lots of butterflies to clip to, otherwise it's a big slide onto a boulder if you lose your footing.

I was thinking of rigging starting with the centre of a 60m rope and so double-rigging it all. Then if needed, I could come alongside to sort something out. Also follow a couple of metres behind them, maybe just until they've threaded the stop for that first vertical. By that point onwards it could probably be done by shouting encouragements and occasional insult from below?

Good suggestion for the waterproof jacket. The weekend 27-29 is forecast for some rain, how much though not sure as it's quite far ahead for forecasting. We'll see...

 

[tdobson]

Bagshawe Cavern Dungeon Pitch, or Merlin Mine Upper Entrance to Adit.

The first one is more exciting. The second one is better. Both are idea. Merlin never has water problems. Bagshawe might do in named storms. Bagshawe Lower series leads to nice cave. The Merlin pitch feels a bit artificial.

 

[David Rose]

Oxlow is reasonable introduction, I'd have thought.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

OK, so.. weekend before last took him on an initial intro to Gautries Hole SRT pitch, went to Carlswark but due to various issues ended up going on a non SRT trip (Gin entrance to almost Eyam Dale Shaft, admiring cockles, back out Gin).

Last weekend family pressure meant we admired some cave entrances but no caving (Small Mammal, Bar Pot, Wade's/Flood, Main drop, Rat Hole with diverted stream). Shame as Bar Pot would've been ideal.

Unable to get permission for Bagshawe (my fault for leaving too late and only emailing on Wednesday for the Saturday, no reply)

So thinking about novice SRT suggestions above.

Eyam Dale Shaft - nice, but also nice to see somewhere else

Oxlow - not yet, because I would like him to be supervised and if I rig then I can't supervise him getting on rope etc, I think this is a good idea after he's been on a trip or two more

Bagshawe - access difficulty

Merlin Mine top pitch - definite maybe! But a little short, maybe to be combined with a look round hanging flat or something?

Pin Dale Mine "through trip" - I love a good mine and want to see the climbing shaft, but false floors and squeezing under deads likely will put him off

Sneslow - looks a nice trip, but like Oxlow... too much at this stage

Suicide - definite maybe

P8 - I'm itching to get in there, noted the waterproof jacket suggestion, but my son seems overly nervous of wet caves and Googled the micro guide and warning about novice and wet conditions and is unduly nervous (odd, since he does a bit of diving)

I have stashed in the car a 40m rope, a 60m rope, a short bit (10m?) and a fistful of Krabs.

Apart from Merlin top and Suicide, are there any other ones I'm overlooking?

Thanks again for suggestions

 

[Brains]

Devonshire has some good practice pitches, as well as an interesting historical, geological and archaeological side.
Jug holes
Giants has options at upper east end west

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Devonshire... Thanks, I'd overlooked that. If Matlock area would Jug Holes be worth a look, I've a memory someone said rig a rope down the hole but enter from the bottom, or am I confusing that with somewhere else?

 

[RobinGriffiths]

Wapping if in Matlock area. Minimal walk.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Wapping if in Matlock area. Minimal walk.

I had a nice walkabout Wapping in mid January and admired the crystal grotto, a few artefacts and some antique stemples that seemed to be held up only by unstable roof , of course Wapping's Trog graffiti too!
However I'm trying to (perhaps artificially) include a pitch or two of very simple SRT for training my son

 

[Cantclimbtom]

I must be being very thick.

I am looking at DVA page for Jug Holes (https://peakdistrictcaving.info/home/the-caves/derwent-south/jug-holes)
I am looking at the Survey
I am looking at the rigging guide available, which is to traverse the bad step
Also looking at pictures

This doesn't make sense, at least not to someone who doesn't already understand it
There is an "adit" self explanatory the text says "Lower adit entrance (SK 27952 59697) has a gate with a 24mm captive bolt" but that's bot the same grid ref in the site location

There is an "entrance to upper series" on the survey. Is the grid ref for the overall site for that?
there is an "entrance pitch to lower series" - is that the bad step traverse or is this another surface entrance with an abseil?
There is also a picture of an entrance to the water caverns, where is that and is an abseil required - if so is there any rigging guide or rope lengths?

Sorry DCA but I'm finding the Details page very confusing

 

[wellyjen]

Pin Dale Mine "through trip" - I love a good mine and want to see the climbing shaft, but false floors and squeezing under deads likely will put him off

There isn't an underground connection between the upper and lower entrances of Pindale End Mine, if this is what you mean by Pindale Mine "through trip". There almost certainly was one once, but it is currently blocked.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

There isn't an underground connection between the upper and lower entrances of Pindale End Mine, if this is what you mean by Pindale Mine "through trip". There almost certainly was one once, but it is currently blocked.

Ahhh... DCA has no survey or rigging guide but https://www.ccpc.org.uk/rigging-guide/pindale-end-mine-print.pdf looks like there's a connection and in-between passage not shown for brevity?

So dropping a rope down the climbing shaft and then descending down the upper isn't going to work then . Thanks for the warning

 

[wellyjen]

Ahhh... DCA has no survey or rigging guide but https://www.ccpc.org.uk/rigging-guide/pindale-end-mine-print.pdf looks like there's a connection and in-between passage not shown for brevity?

So dropping a rope down the climbing shaft and then descending down the upper isn't going to work then . Thanks for the warning

Yes, it's not shown in the Crewe topo, because it's not there, rather than not shown for brevity.
There is a mention of the probable one time connection in the peakdistrictcaving.info entries. If you take a shovel with you, you might get through!

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Doh!!! Obvious after you pointed it out. I should've gone to Specsavers
"...Main level continues for 30m to a low and wet semi-natural section with much sticky toadstone clay, ending at a blockage shortly afterward. Would almost certainly connect to the blocked level accessed via the Upper Shaft if dug open..."

 

[Pete K]

Ahhh... DCA has no survey or rigging guide but https://www.ccpc.org.uk/rigging-guide/pindale-end-mine-print.pdf looks like there's a connection and in-between passage not shown for brevity?

So dropping a rope down the climbing shaft and then descending down the upper isn't going to work then . Thanks for the warning

FYI, the DCA rigging guides on PDCi only show the anchors placed under the BCA Anchor Scheme by DCA installers. We leave it to the excellent CCPC guides to cover the rest. The bolts in the 2 Pindale mines are fairly new 12mm or 10mm stainless Petzl expansion anchors placed by a local bolting fairy.....